F1 2021: French GP - Le Castellet (June 20)

[e90335e36m3]

What's the username of Hamilton's largest fan on this forum? He's unusually quiet now that Verstappen is consistently outperforming Hamilton. Like I and many others have said, it's primarily technology, not the driver, that is most directly attributable to winning F1 championships. No way Sir 7ewis wins that many championships if he and Verstappen race on the same team or if Hamilton and Verstappen switch teams (Schumacher doesn't either by the way). I genuinely don't care for either driver, just don't understand biased fans who exclude the validity of the technology argument because they can't get past their passion for a particular driver. Technology gaps are evident at the top of the field and even more between between top and bottom teams.

That said, maybe Hamilton fell off this year, while Max has evolved, but seriously? This isn't the Stallone Driven movie.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by e90335e36m3

What's the username of Hamilton's largest fan on this forum? He's unusually quiet now that Verstappen is consistently outperforming Hamilton. Like I and many others have said, it's primarily technology, not the driver, that is most directly attributable to winning F1 championships. No way Sir 7ewis wins that many championships if he and Verstappen race on the same team or if Hamilton and Verstappen switch teams (Schumacher doesn't either by the way). I genuinely don't care for either driver, just don't understand biased fans who exclude the validity of the technology argument because they can't get past their passion for a particular driver. Technology gaps are evident at the top of the field and even more between between top and bottom teams.

That said, maybe Hamilton fell off this year, while Max has evolved, but seriously? This isn't the Stallone Driven movie.

That's our good friend "MKSixer"

Well said mate , and I agree completely !

[e90335e36m3]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

That's our good friend "MKSixer"

Well said mate , and I agree completely !

Yes that's the one! Interested in his take on this, but if I recall he was a lobbyist. Us regular folks don't stand a chance against the deductive and persuasion abilities of a lobbyist.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by yco

Lewis still can drive.. nothing changed mate..

Of course mate ,but I'm pretty sure "something 'really changed" !

•MAX wins races
•MAX pulls the pole
•MAX beats 7Hammy in the rain (check Imola)
•MAX is the leader (P1) in the driver rankings

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by e90335e36m3

Yes that's the one! Interested in his take on this, but if I recall he was a lobbyist. Us regular folks don't stand a chance against the deductive and persuasion abilities of a lobbyist.

Let us say : We don't give it up !

2 weeks ago at the Monaco GP , he said he was traveling
While MAX won at Monaco , and 7Hammy failed through the whole race ..

But honestly , I can feel his pain !
It's the same pain that we/I could feel in the last 5 seasons during the Benz domination !

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by yco

...Lewis is happy with the car before the race.. and yeah.. being quicker than Bottas again in Bottas' chassis will shut some mouths..

yep, mainly SLOWTAS

[iamwingman]

Originally Posted by e90335e36m3

Yes that's the one! Interested in his take on this, but if I recall he was a lobbyist. Us regular folks don't stand a chance against the deductive and persuasion abilities of a lobbyist.

That guy is hilarious. He claims to be a lobbyist also?

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by e90335e36m3

What's the username of Hamilton's largest fan on this forum? He's unusually quiet now that Verstappen is consistently outperforming Hamilton. Like I and many others have said, it's primarily technology, not the driver, that is most directly attributable to winning F1 championships. No way Sir 7ewis wins that many championships if he and Verstappen race on the same team or if Hamilton and Verstappen switch teams (Schumacher doesn't either by the way). I genuinely don't care for either driver, just don't understand biased fans who exclude the validity of the technology argument because they can't get past their passion for a particular driver. Technology gaps are evident at the top of the field and even more between between top and bottom teams.

That said, maybe Hamilton fell off this year, while Max has evolved, but seriously? This isn't the Stallone Driven movie.

In all fairness he was away on business last time he went into stealth mode. Don't worry, MKSixer will be back.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

In all fairness he was away on business last time he went into stealth mode. Don't worry, MKSixer I'll be back .

FTFY !

#Arnie

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

FTFY !

#Arnie

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by yco

DAS never been used for higher straight line speed.. by the way race cars dont have 0 toe on front.. they almost every time adjusted to toe out on front..

Have you watched them using the DAS?

The point is that if you can adjust toe, you can adjust it to higer top speed on the straights (less toe angle=less tyre friction=more efficiency) and more grip in the corner (more toe angle) (especially during braking). You saw them mostly changing their toe at the end of a straight before entering the corner. THey change their toe from staightline setting to corner setting. They do that with only one intent, that the one setting works better in a straight line and the other in corners/during braking. The setting in a straight line has only one goal (there is only one goal in the straight: top speed)

Fact of the matter is that for now it looks like the supremacy of the MERC's is partly gone and to me all rule changes effect all cars except the banning of DAS.
As the chassis have been carried over from last year due to covid, the changes on the cars are very very little compared to normal season changes, so that RB has made such a gain on MERC shows something. Merc has lost it's edge (and 'coincidentally' also their very controverisal DAS system)

[yco]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Of course mate ,but I'm pretty sure "something 'really changed" !

•MAX wins races
•MAX pulls the pole
•MAX beats 7Hammy in the rain (check Imola)
•MAX is the leader (P1) in the driver rankings

only if Max can do this at least 7 years more then ok my friend..

Originally Posted by GuidoK

You have been in the car?

The point is that if you can adjust toe, you can adjust it to higer top speed on the straights (less toe angle=less tyre friction=more efficiency) and more grip in the corner (more toe angle) (especially during braking)

lol.. have you been on the moon? i guess you havent but you re seeing it.. its there everyday i believe for you as well..

for optimal top speed and braking, fronts needs to adjusted to toe out and rears toe in.. angle depends on the car.. not 0.. its a racing setup 101.. so after this in mind.. have you seen Merc's playing with DAS when they re in a "hot lap" for that purpose you re talking about?
if so, i d like to see the footage please..

PS: see im kind and not expecting you to be in the car during that hot lap footage GuidoK..

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by yco

for optimal top speed and braking, fronts needs to adjusted to toe out and rears toe in.. angle depends on the car.. not 0.. its a racing setup 101..

The specific explanation starts at 1:45
zero toe gives more straight speed. Less scrub on the tyre patch.
and, zero toe also makes the car front narrower. better aero.

But indeed, not racing 101 but racing 102.

In the end changing the toe can also be used to get extra heat in the tyres at specific patches which can be important in braking and cornering (but of course that takes energy, thus less speed)
Obviously you're not going to set up a racecar with 0deg toe if you dont have DAS, so maybe you're confused by that with your racing 101 booklet.
You can also clearly see in the video that when entering the straight he pulls the steering wheel. Pulling on the wheel decreases toe out. (you can see both happening in the video at 0:11 when he starts his run on the straight)
Zero toe on the straight gives the least rolling resistance (=better top speed), the least aero drag (=better top speed) and the least tyre wear.

But it all doesn't matter, we've seen that HAM couldn't pass PER time after time on the very long straights of Baku despite having DRS every time.
So they've lost top speed. Coincidentally with their DAS system....
All the specific benefits MERC seemed to have over their competition in the last 2 years (top speed while able to corner fast and very little tyre wear) are also benefits that the DAS system can enhance.

[Bongoxxx]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Fact of the matter is that for now it looks like the supremacy of the MERC's is partly gone and to me all rule changes effect all cars except the banning of DAS.
As the chassis have been carried over from last year due to covid, the changes on the cars are very very little compared to normal season changes, so that RB has made such a gain on MERC shows something. Merc has lost it's edge (and 'coincidentally' also their very controverisal DAS system)

Fact of the matter is the rule changes effect all cars, but not all in the same way. They all have different setups and as such the changes to the floor dramatically impacted the cars differently. The changes were arguably biased to slow down the MERCs and it has worked.

It’s made the races much more interesting to watch this year, but please don’t fool yourself thinking RB has gotten that much faster. They just didn’t lose as much time with the aero changes as MERC. I’d have to dig up the videos, but the MERC engineers figured they lost 3-4 seconds a lap with the aero changes and had to try and gain that back.

Again should be a good race tomorrow…hopefully MAX can take better care of his tires tomorrow

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by Bongoxxx

Fact of the matter is the rule changes effect all cars,

the banning of DAS systems dont effect all cars, just mercedes.

All the other rule changes apply to all cars.
Of course different teams adapt with different succes to those changes.
But it's strange that MERC had more trouble adapting to rule changes.
First of all because the changes are very small compared to other years because the chassis have been carried over to this year, and secondly MERC used to be the team that was most ahead of other teams at the beginning of the season.
So they had the least trouble getting their car fast early in the season.
Now thats different.
Maybe MERC is better in developping a completely new chassis than evolving an existing chassis (which is more the case this year)
Or maybe losing DAS has lost them the edge.

[yco]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

The specific explanation starts at 1:45
zero toe gives more straight speed. Less scrub on the tyre patch.
and, zero toe also makes the car front narrower. better aero.

But indeed, not racing 101 but racing 102.

In the end changing the toe can also be used to get extra heat in the tyres at specific patches which can be important in braking and cornering (but of course that takes energy, thus less speed)
Obviously you're not going to set up a racecar with 0deg toe if you dont have DAS, so maybe you're confused by that with your racing 101 booklet.
You can also clearly see in the video that when entering the straight he pulls the steering wheel. Pulling on the wheel decreases toe out. (you can see both happening in the video at 0:11 when he starts his run on the straight)
Zero toe on the straight gives the least rolling resistance (=better top speed), the least aero drag (=better top speed) and the least tyre wear.

But it all doesn't matter, we've seen that HAM couldn't pass PER time after time on the very long straights of Baku despite having DRS every time.
So they've lost top speed. Coincidentally with their DAS system....
All the specific benefits MERC seemed to have over their competition in the last 2 years (top speed while able to corner fast and very little tyre wear) are also benefits that the DAS system can enhance.

again.. can i have a video in a "hot lap" for supporting your theory?
i was trying to emphasize hot lap somehow above as well but it didnt work..

Originally Posted by GuidoK

the banning of DAS systems dont effect all cars, just mercedes.

All the other rule changes apply to all cars.
Of course different teams adapt with different succes to those changes.
But it's strange that MERC had more trouble adapting to rule changes.
First of all because the changes are very small compared to other years because the chassis have been carried over to this year, and secondly MERC used to be the team that was most ahead of other teams at the beginning of the season.
So they had the least trouble getting their car fast early in the season.
Now thats different.
Maybe MERC is better in developping a completely new chassis than evolving an existing chassis (which is more the case this year)
Or maybe losing DAS has lost them the edge.

because Merc's low-rake design was more depended on the floor patch.. high-rake cars affected as well since floor got smaller but very small amount since their design included the whole bottom of the car more aggressively for creating low pressure..

i ll paste the link below and i believe you ll still say it was the DAS made Merc' lose 1.5 seconds at the very same track comparing to last year..

Lewis Hamilton 2020 quali time.. 1:28.319..
Lewis Hamilton 2021 quali time.. 1:30.248..

Max Verstappen 2020 quali time.. 1:29.409..
Max Verstappen 2021 quali time.. 1:29.990..

https://www.formula1.com/en/results....ualifying.html ..

as you can see Merc' lost 1.5 seconds.. RB lost 0.5 at the very same track.. deficit is 1 second.. its not strange its physics..

if you want to close your eyes to these facts, im sorry i dont believe the earth is flat as well..

cheers..

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

yep, mainly SLOWTAS

I'm not complaining, I WANT him to stay at Merc for alap

[M5Rick]

FIA are not saying anything about a front wing test,I've seen the Merc front wing as I'm sure many have with the the winglets rising up at speed.
Horner has called for a test in line with the one on rear wings in force now and FIA must end their feet dragging when it comes to getting Merc in line with the others, a glaring example is allowing them to keep DAS for a whole season ruling it illegal when Merc could easily change back to conventional steering.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by yco

again.. can i have a video in a "hot lap" for supporting your theory?
i was trying to emphasize hot lap somehow above as well but it didnt work..



because Merc's low-rake design was more depended on the floor patch.. high-rake cars affected as well since floor got smaller but very small amount since their design included the whole bottom of the car more aggressively for creating low pressure..

i ll paste the link below and i believe you ll still say it was the DAS made Merc' lose 1.5 seconds at the very same track comparing to last year..

Lewis Hamilton 2020 quali time.. 1:28.319..
Lewis Hamilton 2021 quali time.. 1:30.248..

Max Verstappen 2020 quali time.. 1:29.409..
Max Verstappen 2021 quali time.. 1:29.990..

https://www.formula1.com/en/results....ualifying.html ..

as you can see Merc' lost 1.5 seconds.. RB lost 0.5 at the very same track.. deficit is 1 second.. its not strange its physics..

if you want to close your eyes to these facts, im sorry i dont believe the earth is flat as well..

cheers..

•Mate listen ...
Your QF times means actually nothing !
All the 2021 cars run faster than last year ..Even Ferrari !
Sainz ran with his Ferrari 344 km/h on the Baku straight ...

•The mistral wind !
In other words : This season It's the strong mistral wind at the Paul Ricard circuit .
I already mailed this morning with my nephew in France. He said over this weekend the wind is unpredictable and is constantly changing...
That's why the cars run slower than last year .
Today the wind blows even harder ,mate that's bad news for 7Hammy !

"EDIT & UPDATE"

'75% chance of rain (thunderstorm is possible) at 01:00 PM !

[yco]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

•Mate listen ...
Your QF times means actually nothing !
All the 2021 cars run faster than last year ..Even Ferrari !
Sainz ran with his Ferrari 344 km/h on the Baku straight ...

•The mistral wind !
In other words : This season It's the strong mistral wind at the Paul Ricard circuit .
I already mailed this morning with my nephew in France. He said over this weekend the wind is unpredictable and is constantly changing...
That's why the cars run slower than last year .
Today the wind blows even harder ,mate that's bad news for 7Hammy !

"EDIT & UPDATE"

'75% chance of rain (thunderstorm is possible) at 01:00 PM !

lol mate.. so basically you re saying if we put a dragster on a F1 track it ll laps faster than F1 cars.. ok..
and they re not my lap times.. one of them belongs to Max.. tell him what you re saying..

[///M Power-Belgium]

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by yco

lol mate.. so basically you re saying if we put a dragster on a F1 track it ll laps faster than F1 cars.. ok..
and they re not my lap times.. one of them belongs to Max.. tell him what you re saying..

You don't get it mate ...

In other words :On this track ,faster or slower lap times are depending of the mistral wind strength .

Do you understand ?