Why Lewis Hamilton Is More Than Just THE CAR

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by David70

I agree, Hamilton's rookie season was one of the best ever. Not seeing how you will ever prove Hamilton's the best ever or his level of natural talent or ability to drive at the limit being above everyone else's, it just an opinion. We'll also never know how much of what he accomplished was his ability or the luck in switching from Mclaren to MB at the exact right time. If he had hadn't made the switch his career could have looked much different

I also never said Max was better than Hamilton overall, just brought up the question that if in equal cars today I don't know who would win.

I think Max is now 23 and Hamilton started F1 when he was 22. If Max had waited another 5 years to join F1 some amount of the mistakes would have been reduced and he obviously would have acted more grown up in his first few years.

Mate . Today you won the Internet again !

[5.M0NSTER]

So I don’t think many people here claim that Ham is the best driver ever. But he is on top, worked hard to get there, and outperforms the rest of the field almost every day.

Can we stop feeding the trolls now?

Ver supporters here won’t give any driver credit to anyone other than their guy, and continue to argue the only reason Ham wins is the car. No matter what. And when Ver screws up, they will target everyone else but him for the mistakes.

So yes, let’s put the troll food away.

[David70]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

So I don’t think many people here claim that Ham is the best driver ever. But he is on top, worked hard to get there, and outperforms the rest of the field almost every day.

Can we stop feeding the trolls now?

Ver supporters here won’t give any driver credit to anyone other than their guy, and continue to argue the only reason Ham wins is the car. No matter what. And when Ver screws up, they will target everyone else but him for the mistakes.

So yes, let’s put the troll food away.

Not sure what you are talking about with the trolls, its been a very normal discussion.

Strange that you follow this up with "Ver supporters here ..... only reason Ham wins is the car. No matter what." I think zero have said this and it seems very much "trolling".

[5.M0NSTER]

Look back a few pages and a few threads.

[IllSic_Design]

Originally Posted by David70

Not sure what you are talking about with the trolls, its been a very normal discussion.

Strange that you follow this up with "Ver supporters here ..... only reason Ham wins is the car. No matter what." I think zero have said this and it seems very much "trolling".

LOL all the guys who "liked" your post have pretty much said exactly that... Either you're blind or.....

[Dutch Devotion]

What VER fans seem to forget is that HAM+MER developed that car together to what it is now. "Giving" the MER car to VER is BS if you ask me, if you really like to compare, you should "give the MER team" to VER and develop a car and race it. Which is BS too when I think about it.

For a fair comparison about who has the extraordinary skills, you should both test them in a RB, having to drive around the many issues that car has. And to do it totally fair, you should give HAM and VER 10 race events to further develop the car, independently. Let's see who shows to be part of the fastest package after those 10 races + development.

Being a VER fan, I would not put all my money on VER to be honest ;-) Driver input required for the development of a car takes a large part of the ingredients for winning races.

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by Dutch Devotion

Driver input required for the development of a car takes a large part of the ingredients for winning races.

Not totally convinced about that. Sure a driver has to be able to understand how the car drives and what areas need to be improved to suit that drivers style.
And it is certainly possible to account for a drivers preference for a car that is pointy, evenly balanced or a touch understeery.
But the vast majority of a cars development is obviously in the engine and aero.
A driver will have essentially zero input into the engine design or the cars aero philosophy.
I think the mark of a truly great driver is the ability to get into any car and drive it at its limit right from the very first races.
You could see that in Senna and Hamilton.

[David70]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

Not totally convinced about that. Sure a driver has to be able to understand how the car drives and what areas need to be improved to suit that drivers style.
And it is certainly possible to account for a drivers preference for a car that is pointy, evenly balanced or a touch understeery.
But the vast majority of a cars development is obviously in the engine and aero.
A driver will have essentially zero input into the engine design or the cars aero philosophy.
I think the mark of a truly great driver is the ability to get into any car and drive it at its limit right from the very first races.
You could see that in Senna and Hamilton.

Agree completely, driver gives his input on a lot things, some are his preference but how many times have we heard the driver ask if one of the many sensors and data report something out of the ordinary? Data can tell you what aero is needed and how the engine it performing.

[fiveohwblow]

Originally Posted by IllSic_Design

LOL all the guys who "liked" your post have pretty much said exactly that... Either you're blind or.....

LOLWUT

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by Dutch Devotion

What VER fans seem to forget is that HAM+MER developed that car together to what it is now. "Giving" the MER car to VER is BS if you ask me, if you really like to compare, you should "give the MER team" to VER and develop a car and race it. Which is BS too when I think about it.

For a fair comparison about who has the extraordinary skills, you should both test them in a RB, having to drive around the many issues that car has. And to do it totally fair, you should give HAM and VER 10 race events to further develop the car, independently. Let's see who shows to be part of the fastest package after those 10 races + development.

Being a VER fan, I would not put all my money on VER to be honest ;-) Driver input required for the development of a car takes a large part of the ingredients for winning races.

Originally Posted by M5theonlyone

Driver input required for the development of a car takes a large part of the ingredients for winning races.

https://www.grandprix247.com/2017/02...ne-since-2007/[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

Not totally convinced about that. Sure a driver has to be able to understand how the car drives and what areas need to be improved to suit that drivers style.
And it is certainly possible to account for a drivers preference for a car that is pointy, evenly balanced or a touch understeery.
But the vast majority of a cars development is obviously in the engine and aero.
A driver will have essentially zero input into the engine design or the cars aero philosophy.
I think the mark of a truly great driver is the ability to get into any car and drive it at its limit right from the very first races.
You could see that in Senna and Hamilton.

Driver input is essential in developing the car and it is no wonder that the Mercedes is much improved in the area of rear tire management since Lewis joined the team and immediately after McLaren fell into woe. I will paraphrase a quote about Lewis Hamilton relative to testing: "When we get the car back from Lewis in testing, we know that every bit of performance has been extracted from the car. I can't say that for any other driver."

Another quote from a driver who shared the same car, Jenson Button: "If Lewis ever learns how to use his engineers, we may as well not show up to race (against him)."

Lewis makes the difference no matter the chassis and despite all of the hatred and outright lies, he will definitely go down as the greatest F1 driver, both statistically and subjectively.

[David70]

Originally Posted by IllSic_Design

LOL all the guys who "liked" your post have pretty much said exactly that... Either you're blind or.....

LOL "...have pretty much said...." the catch all in conversations where things don't exactly line up.

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by David70

LOL "...have pretty much said...." the catch all in conversations where things don't exactly line up.

Why don’t you ask M5 and Belgian if anyone, particularly max would win in the Merc? See what happens...

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

Why don’t you ask M5 and Belgian if anyone, particularly max would win in the Merc? See what happens...

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

I'm actually going to give you a thumbs up on this one. Good answer. Had you said yes, you'd just proven my point.
Had you said no, I would always use it against you in your future post.

So credit where credit is due.

But now all I have to do is wait... It won't be long

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

I'm actually going to give you a thumbs up on this one. Good answer. Had you said yes, you'd just proven my point.
Had you said no, I would always use it against you in your future post.

So credit where credit is due.

But now all I have to do is wait... It won't be long

You are right . You have to wait mate !
Till next Sunday ...


To see how your MIB hits the wall in the rain !

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

You are right . You have to wait mate !
Till next Sunday ...


To see how your MIB hits the wall in the rain !

You seem to forget. I don't care who wins. Anyone but your adolescent deserves to take it. Perhaps STR will be on top?

I don't have a favorite. I certainly have a least favorite though.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

You seem to forget. I don't care who wins. Anyone but your adolescent deserves to take it. Perhaps STR will be on top?

I don't have a favorite. I certainly have a least favorite though.

Mate . No worries my memory works outstanding !
From what I can read in your posts , It's only hate for MAX .

You don't have a favorite ?
Well , if the MIB takes the victory (as usual) you seem to be very quiet .

Mate we should meet each other ASAP . As you know my place isn't so far from Germany.......
Of course I have some friends from the Dutch Orange Legion as well . By chance today at work I met the leader of them !
Imagine mate !

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Mate . No worries my memory works outstanding !
From what I can read in your posts , It's only hate for MAX .

You don't have a favorite ?
Well , if the MIB takes the victory (as usual) you seem to be very quiet .

Mate we should meet each other ASAP . As you know my place isn't so far from Germany.......
Of course I have some friends from the Dutch Orange Legion as well . By chance today at work I met the leader of them !
Imagine mate !

What can I say. Best driver wins again? What a surprise!!

I look forward to see you in Merc colors when the Champ actually retires, and max is mature enough to join a real team

Though it will take some time and a firm hand by the look of things.

And I know you need all the help you can get, but meeting up sounds like fun. I am #RELENTLESS Hope you don't mid if I wear a different color though, orange is the color of Trump, and I've never been a fan. Ever spend any time in Stuttgart?

[911r]

Originally Posted by Admiral

Stick him in a Williams and see how good he is

Stick ANYONE..from any time period in Williams and see how good they are

[Bongoxxx]

Originally Posted by 911r

Stick ANYONE..from any time period in Williams and see how good they are

Jacques Villeneuve did “okay” in a Williams in 1997
Unless winning the drivers championship and besting Schumacher isn’t good

If you mean throw any driver in the current Williams, well throw Senna in it and I’d bet he would finish P5 or higher.

[911r]

Originally Posted by Bongoxxx

Jacques Villeneuve did “okay” in a Williams in 1997
Unless winning the drivers championship and besting Schumacher isn’t good

If you mean throw any driver in the current Williams, well throw Senna in it and I’d bet he would finish P5 or higher.

Current day, of course. And that's debatable, I'm really routing for them...but c'mon. They're at zero points at the moment for this season if I remember correctly? I don't think any one driver could turn that around. Perhaps I'm wrong. Future looks bright, however. Certainly brighter than 2019.

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by Bongoxxx

If you mean throw any driver in the current Williams, well throw Senna in it and I’d bet he would finish P5 or higher.

I don't know about P5 but Senna even in todays Williams would definitely still stand out.
The very best drivers always impress in whatever car they drive.