I want to rant just a second about something, I hope you enjoy it. In December, I bought a new BMW. The idea was that, if my fiancé, Anna and I, were going to be living in Birmingham, I wouldn’t need my truck any longer, and would in fact, need something small and economical, to get back and forth to the coast, to see my mother, and my friends. I thought, given all of the construction going on, on the Gulf Coast, one of the contractors would buy my big truck, and life would go on. Well, no one bought my big truck, in fact, I’m not real sure that anyone was all that interested. So I got into a position, where I needed to get rid of either, a BMW, or a GMC pickup truck. Fast forward to why I am writing this. I bought the BMW from Tom Williams BMW, in Birmingham, AL. I bought it there, because when I first wanted a BMW, a little over a year ago, I went there and met an awesome salesman by the name of Frank Baumann. He seemed to understand what I wanted, and was very low pressure. The process was flawless, and within a few hours, I was driving off of the lot in my new BMW. The problem, is that no one, from Tom Williams BMW, was honest from the start, nor did they want to do anything to counter their own dishonesty. The car, it turns out, had been a demo for the dealership. That wasn’t disclosed until after I had purchased the car, and had brought it back for what would be the first paint issue, of many. The rail, that runs the length of the top of the car, was missing paint, as early as the day after I bought the car. It appeared that something, strong enough to remove paint, had been sprayed on the top of the car, and had begin to work it’s magic on the rail. When I took it into the service department, I was told something to the tune of, “…not sure what did that, but with it being a demo, and all, it could have been anything…We’ll get that fixed up for ya!” So, I’m thinking, oh, it was a demo? Nice…So the friendly service guy, Shannon, ordered up the part, and sent me on my way. Several weeks, and zero phone calls later, I had to return to Birmingham for some reason, and I noticed, that paint was missing off of the underside of the front bumper, and was all scratched up, like it had been run, repeatedly, repeatedly, up onto a curb, or something of the sort. So I’m like, what the fuck is this? So I go back to Tom Williams BMW’s service department, and say, “Frank, we got a problem here, this is the second time I’ve had to bring this car back for a paint issue.” So he goes, and gets his new car, sales manager, a guy named Kevin, I believe to come out and check this out. So he gets down on the ground, to take a look at this and says, “Normally, when we have a customer that’s been out driving their car for a couple of weeks, and then they bring something like this back, we tell’em that they’re outta luck, but since yours was a demo, and this could have happened before you bought it, we’ll go ahead and get this fixed for ya…” and he sent me on my way with the phone number of their touch up guy, and told me that I should just call him, and set something up with him. Wonderful customer service at this point. Something I failed to mention, was that the morning after I had bought the car, I returned it because the headlights were not lined up properly. Not only could the dealership, not get them lined up, but they did nothing about it. I guess with it being a demo and all…So, I finally got the roof rail replaced, and lined something up with the touch up guy, and he got the under part of the bumper painted, and he does a hell of a job, and I decide that I might could be satisfied now. Until, I’m out washing it one afternoon, and when I pick my cloth up from the bumper, I notice that clear-coat is peeling, like tape, off of the front bumper, revealing a rough base coat. I immediately call the dealership, and ask to speak to the General Manager, whoever he/she is. His name is Mark Gerloff. I got his voicemail, left him one, and within about twenty minutes, he calls me back. I explain, everything to him, and he promises me that he will get BMW involved. The next day, Mark calls me back, and tells me that a field engineer from BMW, named Joel Hodges, will meet me at the Mobile, BMW dealership, on such and such day, and take a look at my problem. By this time, I’ve stated, very bluntly, that I am no longer interested in the car, and that I no longer want it, and want out of my lease. After all, how many paint problems, qualify according to BMW. Well, Mr. Hodges, looks at the car, including the places on the roof, and hood, that are completely missing paint by now, tells me that he’ll file his report with his superiors, and that he’ll give me a call as soon as he hears something back. Two weeks go by, and nothing from anyone, no calls, no correspondence, not shit. So I call Mr. Hodges’ voice mail, and leave him a message…no response, three days later, another message, no response…Over three weeks later, the Kevin guy from the dealership, calls to tell me, “Hey, BMW said that it wasn’t there problem, and that they weren’t gonna do anything about it. I can use some of BMW’s incentive money to repaint your bumper, and maybe get you a couple of your lease payments returned, but that’s probably gonna be all we can do for ya…how’s that sound?” So I politely tell him, that I’m not interested, and that I want out of my lease, at all costs to them. He tells me that he’ll get back in touch with me, and that was over three weeks ago. I’ve since, left him two voicemails, and a handwritten message from the receptionist’s desk, asking for him to call me, and to no avail.
I’ve since managed to push that piece of shit off on to someone else, and it is now their problem, I no longer care. The car cost me nine-thousand dollars, including my down payment, and monthly notes, and depreciation, to drive for three months. The management of Tom Williams BMW, along with Frank Baumann, the salesman, are, in my humble opinion, liars. Tom Williams BMW sold me a BMW that I was told, was brand new, which was in fact, a demo, and was riddled with problems. At no time, did they intend on telling me, or anyone else, this fact, or the fact that the car, had more than likely been wrecked, and that there were problems with it, the day I drove it off of the lot. I’m not looking for sympathy, or any of that bullshit, because I don’t need it. I made a mistake in buying the car to begin with, but I’ve got strong brand loyalty, and I wanted another BMW. I’m writing this because I want to make anyone that I can, aware, of the kind of business Tom Williams Auto Group, is. They were not truthful in dealing with me, nor did they have any interest in keeping me a long-term customer. Regardless of whether anyone reading this ever does business with them, please be careful buying a car from any auto dealership. Tom Williams, will never notice the affects that I, alone, will have on them, as it could be null, but if they continue to treat all of their customers this way, they may eventually realize that they are doing something wrong. I know that what they did was illegal, but I’m not convinced that pursuing legal efforts would be worth the money, so I’m moving on. But please be careful when dealing with these scoundrels…

Thanks for allowing me to be part of your group, if only for a few months. There are some very wonderful people in here, that helped a former BMW owner, get comfortable in his new one. I love the cars, but I can't imagine spending that kind of money on a car, only to have the paint come off of it, three times! I'm pretty sure, in the 13 years I've been driving, I've never dealt with that problem, and I wasn't going to start now. Thanks again, and I hope you all continue enjoying your cars, and being awesome!
-Chip Cole aka The originalrumrunner

[am_ver]

[kuthair]

wow.. if u add some spacing to that paragraph it might be easier to read.

[jadeddjay]

welcome to the forums, good to see a fellow mississippian here lol

[kuthair]

Sorry to hear.. if you still want something from the dealer, try showing the GM this page. It might help.

[Chi-town330]

wow, that is a horrendous story. how many miles were on the car when you bought it? did they give an explanation for the miles?

Is a car dealership allowed to sell a "new" car that had body work without disclosing that fact? Does any one know? e.g., let's say a car was damaged on the boat ride over.....can the dealership or BMW NA fix it, and sell as new with no information release as to what they did?

[spydrz]

I had my car serviced at Tom Williams while I was in Hoover for a wedding (8/05), and they seemed on the up-and-up. Sorry to hear that they've let that slide.

[kuthair]

Originally Posted by Chi-town330

Is a car dealership allowed to sell a "new" car that had body work without disclosing that fact? Does any one know? e.g., let's say a car was damaged on the boat road over.....can the dealership or BMW NA fix it, and sell as new with no information release as to what they did?

I believe they can up to a certain dollar amount. May depend on state, not exactly sure.

kuthair, i'd really like to muster some support on this page, in hopes of getting something back from them, but I'm afraid it just will not happen. I doubt anyone will do anything for me. Trust me, I tried doing this the diplomatic way, and addressing it properly, without demanding anything, or raising my voice, but it did no good. I dumped the car, along with my fiance's, and we just got her something new. She swears that SHE'LL never own another BMW...bad stuff, eh? And all of that coming from a woman that actually was raised around cars her whole life...she respected the brand, and my loyalty, until this happened, and I think BMW cut my nuts for me...sucks for me! But thanks again!

Originally Posted by Chi-town330

wow, that is a horrendous story. how many miles were on the car when you bought it? did they give an explanation for the miles?

Is a car dealership allowed to sell a "new" car that had body work without disclosing that fact? Does any one know? e.g., let's say a car was damaged on the boat road over.....can the dealership or BMW NA fix it, and sell as new with no information release as to what they did?

As far as the miles go, they said something to the tune of, "...well, we've just had a lot of folks drive it, being a hot little car and all..." It had 1200 or so on it, when I test drove it, and I put like 80 on it running from inside birmingham, and then back to the dealership, that day, so I kind of took that answer at face value, which I should have been able to do...

Also, something that I failed to mention in the ranting, the day that I took the car to the Mobile dealership, which by the way, all seemed like decent folks, the service guy that was creating a ticket on it, while we were waiting on the field engineer to show up, said, "have you had any paint or body work done on this car?" to which i replied, "no, why?" and he said, "that's funny, looks like something's been done..." I made mention of that to the field engineer guy, to which he stated, very matter of factly, "...no, I doubt anything has been done to it, nothing's in the computer for it..." which Kevin, the New Car Sales Manager at Tom Williams, stated after the fact.

[pacman]

Originally Posted by originalrumrunner

As far as the miles go, they said something to the tune of, "...well, we've just had a lot of folks drive it, being a hot little car and all..." It had 1200 or so on it, when I test drove it, and I put like 80 on it running from inside birmingham, and then back to the dealership, that day, so I kind of took that answer at face value, which I should have been able to do...

Also, something that I failed to mention in the ranting, the day that I took the car to the Mobile dealership, which by the way, all seemed like decent folks, the service guy that was creating a ticket on it, while we were waiting on the field engineer to show up, said, "have you had any paint or body work done on this car?" to which i replied, "no, why?" and he said, "that's funny, looks like something's been done..." I made mention of that to the field engineer guy, to which he stated, very matter of factly, "...no, I doubt anything has been done to it, nothing's in the computer for it..." which Kevin, the New Car Sales Manager at Tom Williams, stated after the fact.

why wud u want to buy a new car with 1200 miles on it??? there r ppl on this forum who wudnt take the car with more than 50 miles... something just doesnt look right here.

[turbocoins]

Originally Posted by pacman

why wud u want to buy a new car with 1200 miles on it??? there r ppl on this forum who wudnt take the car with more than 50 miles... something just doesnt look right here.

+1. I bought a car with 250 miles on it (Mercedes Benz). I leased it, so I didn't care about the miles. However, 2 days later the salesman shows up at my house, asking me to sign a document that he "forgot".

The document was a release, indicating that I knew the vehicle was a demo, and that the in service date was about 3 months prior. I refused to sign it, because the warranty would not last for the duration of the lease.

Long story short, the dealer agreed to buy me an extended warranty for the extra few months, so I signed the document. The 250 miles didn't matter to me since it was a lease, but the warranty did.

BTW, I knew it was demo prior to buying it, but not that the vehicle was already in service. I also have a G 35 that was a demo. Again, I leased it. It had fewer than 100 miles, but I still got a deal because it was a demo. 24 mo. lease, so I didn't care about any potential inservice date problems.

[dmboone25]

This is a crappy story....

But I wonder too--you must have gotten a HUGE price break b/c of the mileage, right? If you didnt--you should have. And if you did, wasn't your first inclination that something felt a little wrong here? It does sound like they raked you over on the whole deal, but the entire pretense would have made me uneasy from the start.

Sorry regardless....

[STE92VE]

Sorry for your problems, but WTF were you thinking that you bought a "new" car with 1200 miles on the clock?

I agree that the dealer might not have been upfront about the status of the vehicle but with 1200 miles, red flags should have been waving in your face.

Caveat Emptor...let the buyer beware.

[bemydemon]

tl;dr

[Chi-town330]

I am still left wondering whether this had a bad factory paint job or a bad repair job. One would put odds on the fact that it was a bad repair job (how often does factory paint go bad from the start?), but you would have thought the BMW representative who looked at the car would have spotted body shop work in an instant and said "hey, this car has been repaired, this isn't a BMW factory issue". Then the recourse with the dealership would seem fairly easy - they sold you a repaired car without disclosing that fact.

to me the "demo" part isn't really relevant. buyer knew it has 1,200 miles, knew it hadn't been registered as sold to an individual, so clearly the dealership used it for SOMETHING. but i don't question why he bought a car with 1,200 miles as so many others are.....many folks buy used cars, demo cars, etc. at some price point, any car is worth the price.

[rrandyy]

$9k? Seems like you should have involved your lawyer.

[pacman]

Originally Posted by Chi-town330

I am still left wondering whether this had a bad factory paint job or a bad repair job. One would put odds on the fact that it was a bad repair job (how often does factory paint go bad from the start?), but you would have thought the BMW representative who looked at the car would have spotted body shop work in an instant and said "hey, this car has been repaired, this isn't a BMW factory issue". Then the recourse with the dealership would seem fairly easy - they sold you a repaired car without disclosing that fact.

to me the "demo" part isn't really relevant. buyer knew it has 1,200 miles, knew it hadn't been registered as sold to an individual, so clearly the dealership used it for SOMETHING. but i don't question why he bought a car with 1,200 miles as so many others are.....many folks buy used cars, demo cars, etc. at some price point, any car is worth the price.

i am not questioning why he bought a car with 1200 miles on it.... just questioning why he found it normal for a "new" car to have 1200 miles on it...

[LEDZEP]

I wanted to read it. Really. I just can't.

Paragraphs!

[Chi-town330]

Originally Posted by pacman

i am not questioning why he bought a car with 1200 miles on it.... just questioning why he found it normal for a "new" car to have 1200 miles on it...

question: how does a dealership sell a car that a manager took home for a few weeks, or they used as a demo? i.e., few hundred, or thousand miles? can't they sell that as new? it has never been titled. I am ignorant here, don't know the answer, but figured they can sell as new, just with full disclosure of odometer statement (which is always required), and maybe a small discount for the mileage. and assuming "new", as in first title, I would think the dealership is positioning as perfect condition, and if not, we are required to make it so (other than some tire and brake wear). but I really don't know how this is handled.

[johnc_22]

By offloading the car on someone else you've sacrificed any possibility of having a positive outcome from this. Because the car was sold as "new" to you regardless of the mileage I think that Alabama's lemon law would still have been in effect, or at least you could have hired an attorney to see if the dealership would be willing to play ball when forced. It sure would have been a mighty huge PITA, but then $9000 is a lot of cash to just essentially give up . . .

On a side note it's hard to believe they'd look you straight in the eye and say "this is a new car" and it had 1200 miles on it. I'd have said "OK, I like the car", find me a ***NEW*** one. I've accepted a rare SAAB (Viggen) before with 150 miles on it but I'm not sure I'd buy a car with that sort of mileage on it unless it came with a massive discount.

Still, it sounds like Tom Williams is a crappy dealership. A friend of my Dad (I'm from B'ham) is talking to my CA here in Atlanta because Tom Williams won't even talk pricing over the phone.

[dmboone25]

[QUOTE=STE92VE;851207 Caveat Emptor...let the buyer beware.[/QUOTE]

Words of the prudent consumer.....