X5 50i smoking and turbo issue

[Birdoprey]

Well, most may remember that my X5 had its motor replaced about a year ago(when it had 59,000 mi on it). I have not had any issues since till a few weeks ago. Noticed it smoking when idling(both after its been warmed up and restarted, as well as when sitting idling at a stop after driving for a bit). Initially i thought the smoke was white but i followed it in another vehicle while my son drove the x5 and could see it was blue. I had him really get on it on the highway and only saw black smoke initially when he stomped it then it cleared and no smoke. It does not smoke every time it stops and is at idle, though its getting more often.
At first i was worried about valve guide seals, though the motor was replaced and only has 18,000 mi on it. I've changed the oil between 6500 and 7500mi and i'm using LL-01 oil. First oil change was by dealer with 0w30. Second was by me with Amsoil 0w-40 Signature Series Euro formula. Last time was Liqui-Moly 5w-40(only because the Amsoil i ordered didn't get here in time). So, i really can't see it being valve seals...though i'm sure its always possible.
In some searching, i saw some having issues with the CCV system and wondered about that being an issue as i'm sure the dealer did not replace anything they didn't need to at the time. In looking i could see some oil seepage(just wet with dirt stuck to it) in the area where the intake actually attaches to the turbo compressor inlets and where the CCV valve attaches to that same intake. I pulled the inlets off and happened to take a look at the turbo impeller...(see attached pics). Looks like the drivers side turbo impeller got chewed up. Looking at it it looks like something got into the intake. Does not look to me like the impeller had slack and hit the side of the compressor housing. This had to have happened after the motor was replaced since the intakes have not been off since and i KNOW the damage was NOT there when the motor went(i looked at them myself). Not sure if the damage to the turbo compressor is related to the smoking issue. Only way i can think is if damage to the impeller threw it out of balance and damaged the oil seal pumping some oil into the exhaust? Or?
Whatever damaged the compressor impeller and the pieces of the impeller that are missing had to have gotten to the intercooler, but i can't really see it going through the intercooler? I'm hoping it didn't damage the motor.
Anyway, what are your thoughts?
I'm 100% sure whatever got into the turbo is a result of something the dealer that replaced the motor left or dropped, etc. Its only been to the dealer since then and i've not even looked at the air filters since then(figured the dealer looked at them when I've had it there for recalls to the airbags). But will the dealer see that or believe me?

[Blackscreen67]

Originally Posted by Birdoprey

Well, most may remember that my X5 had its motor replaced about a year ago(when it had 59,000 mi on it). I have not had any issues since till a few weeks ago. Noticed it smoking when idling(both after its been warmed up and restarted, as well as when sitting idling at a stop after driving for a bit). Initially i thought the smoke was white but i followed it in another vehicle while my son drove the x5 and could see it was blue. I had him really get on it on the highway and only saw black smoke initially when he stomped it then it cleared and no smoke. It does not smoke every time it stops and is at idle, though its getting more often.
At first i was worried about valve guide seals, though the motor was replaced and only has 18,000 mi on it. I've changed the oil between 6500 and 7500mi and i'm using LL-01 oil. First oil change was by dealer with 0w30. Second was by me with Amsoil 0w-40 Signature Series Euro formula. Last time was Liqui-Moly 5w-40(only because the Amsoil i ordered didn't get here in time). So, i really can't see it being valve seals...though i'm sure its always possible.
In some searching, i saw some having issues with the CCV system and wondered about that being an issue as i'm sure the dealer did not replace anything they didn't need to at the time. In looking i could see some oil seepage(just wet with dirt stuck to it) in the area where the intake actually attaches to the turbo compressor inlets and where the CCV valve attaches to that same intake. I pulled the inlets off and happened to take a look at the turbo impeller...(see attached pics). Looks like the drivers side turbo impeller got chewed up. Looking at it it looks like something got into the intake. Does not look to me like the impeller had slack and hit the side of the compressor housing. This had to have happened after the motor was replaced since the intakes have not been off since and i KNOW the damage was NOT there when the motor went(i looked at them myself). Not sure if the damage to the turbo compressor is related to the smoking issue. Only way i can think is if damage to the impeller threw it out of balance and damaged the oil seal pumping some oil into the exhaust? Or?
Whatever damaged the compressor impeller and the pieces of the impeller that are missing had to have gotten to the intercooler, but i can't really see it going through the intercooler? I'm hoping it didn't damage the motor.
Anyway, what are your thoughts?
I'm 100% sure whatever got into the turbo is a result of something the dealer that replaced the motor left or dropped, etc. Its only been to the dealer since then and i've not even looked at the air filters since then(figured the dealer looked at them when I've had it there for recalls to the airbags). But will the dealer see that or believe me?

Can you wiggle the compressor up, down, side x side?

Seems likely a compressor journal bearing failure and the compressor being off balance causes the chewing into the compressor housing. Likely when that cover is pulled off it'll have grooves etched in near the leading edges of the wheel.

Did the dealer reuse the original turbo?

[Birdoprey]

Originally Posted by Blackscreen67

Can you wiggle the compressor up, down, side x side?

Seems likely a compressor journal bearing failure and the compressor being off balance causes the chewing into the compressor housing. Likely when that cover is pulled off it'll have grooves etched in near the leading edges of the wheel.

Did the dealer reuse the original turbo?

I did try to wiggle the compressor and did not feel any slack. To go along with that, i did look for scoring on the compressor housing and do not see any. If you notice, there is damage on the leading edge of the impeller all the way to the center where the retaining nut is. If the impeller hit the compressor housing, i would not think it would damage that part of the impeller toward the center.
I believe the dealer did reused the original turbos

[Blackscreen67]

Originally Posted by Birdoprey

I did try to wiggle the compressor and did not feel any slack. To go along with that, i did look for scoring on the compressor housing and do not see any. If you notice, there is damage on the leading edge of the impeller all the way to the center where the retaining nut is. If the impeller hit the compressor housing, i would not think it would damage that part of the impeller toward the center.
I believe the dealer did reused the original turbos

I would start with the reused turbos as your first point of leverage. I don't know enough, but are there any sensors or "bolt on" pieces that could potentially broke off upstream of the compressor?

[Birdoprey]

Originally Posted by Blackscreen67

I would start with the reused turbos as your first point of leverage. I don't know enough, but are there any sensors or "bolt on" pieces that could potentially broke off upstream of the compressor?

Well, my issue is that i live just over 3hrs from the dealer and after seeing the turbo i would want to haul it there.
Does anyone know if the muffler has a common chamber where exhaust from both banks of the motor can mix? The reason i ask is that i've seen smoke out both tail pipes. If each bank can't mix, then there is more than likely an issue with the motor itself. If the issue is with one turbo and there is a common chamber then i can see it still puffing smoke out both sides.
I wonder how much of a job it is to remove the turbo? That would go along way in telling me where the issue is.

[TKR]

Uuh that pic looks bad. Something has really been on that intake side trying to make its way trough the turbine wheel. I would check carefully the air filters (are there any filters or did dealer forgot to install them?) and especially CCV piping and valves. It is very much possible those CCV valves have broken and plastic pieces went through the turbo. Remove both lines, the one going to intake manifold and the one going to the Valve cover. There is a flap inside the pipe going to the valve cover. You can hear the flap moving when you shake the pipe/valve and you can blow air to the pipe to see if its working or not.

If CCV valve (inside that plastic brittle tube) does not work, it will certainly mess up the function of the crank case breathing and can pull oil to the intake manifold which you can see as a blue smoke.

It's a good question if the the muffler has a common chamber for both sides. In the X5M they are separated, but I'm guessing it's common in X5 50i. Not sure though..

[Birdoprey]

Ok, did some more thorough checking. The compressor wheel on the drivers side turbo is def touching the housing. Funny, i can feel almost NO slack side to side/up and down but i can turn the wheel with slight pressure to the side and hear/feel it scraping the housing(not mildly). Passenger side is not touching and has what feels like the same amount of very slight slack. I did not see anything loose or missing between the turbo and the filter. Pulled the CCV as well(which is EXTREMELY brittle!). The valve is in place and moves. It does not completely seal when blowing against the one way valve though.
I'm now thinking that parts of the wheel broke off from touching and the spinning wheel "ate" the pieces.
I doubt very seriously the dealer is going to do anything about it with the vehicle out of warranty and only the long block warrantied by BMW.
Is there a reputable company that can rebuild these Honeywell turbo's?

[Hanebo]

Birdoprey - Interested in finding out what happened to your X5. I saw on FCPEuro that they sell rebuilt turbos, so that might be an option for you.

[Birdoprey]

Started pulling things off to get the turbos off. Noticed that there is a good deal of slack where the waste gate rod goes through the turbine housing on BOTH turbos. Spoke with Majestic Turbo about rebuilding. They won't do it. Said that every one of these turbos that they have seen ALL had the same excess slack in the waste gate where the rod goes into the housing. I did find a place in Florida that will rebuild them and can fix the slack in the waste gate arm. I've got to get these off first. Got everything removed but the cats/down pipes. Can't reach the bolt for the v-band clamp that actually holds the turbos to the manifolds. Have to remove the cats/down pipes and should be easy.

[TKR]

No cat / downpipe removal needed to get N63 turbo's out. I did replace my turbo oil return lines and took a time-lapse video of it. I've been planning to edit it and upload but had no time to do it so far...

the "play" in waste gate axel is somewhat "normal". I had it too but carefully checked does it affect how to gate is closing and it was still functioning and closing properly. Not ideal setup to leave it like that but it's not causing any problems for me..

When you pull the turbos up, replace the oil return housing between cylinders 1 and 5. The gasket is known to leak and in many cases there is a big puddle of oil floating in v-valley and owner has no clue about it.

You will also need new oil return lines. I will post a pic to explain why.. ISTA/Rheingold also emphasises that those lines MUST be replaced. It is impossible to clean the hard oil residue out of them. That's what happens when the temps are close to 300C under turbos and oil boils. The heat management design (or lack of design) there is total disaster.

[TKR]

That's how 50i N63 turbo oil return lines look like.

Car is 2011 and had 95k miles when these were replaced. Somehow the oil was still flowing through and my turbos are fine. The main reason for the repair was the leaking oil return cover under the heat shields.

[Birdoprey]

TKR was right, i was able to remove the turbo w/o removing the cat/down pipe. The way the v-band was clocked it was extremely hard to reach the bolt. In fact i was only able to loosen it a few turns then had to worm the tips of my fingers to loosen it the rest of the way.
There is zero oily residue anywhere on the exhaust side that i can find. Even looking at the exhaust tips. Only thing is black soot on the exhaust tips(fuel). White chalky in the turbine area. LOTS of slack in the waste gate shaft.
My motor was replaced 18K mi ago and it looks like the oil return lines were replaced then since they look pretty new and i see no build up in them. I can't believe TKR's allowed any oil to return!

[TKR]

What's the plan with turbos? You are sending them somewhere?

Check out turbolab's video. It might be an option...
I believe that guy is also member here but I don't remember his name..

http://turbolabofamerica.com

Also on Youtube

[Birdoprey]

Originally Posted by TKR

What's the plan with turbos? You are sending them somewhere?

Check out turbolab's video. It might be an option...
I believe that guy is also member here but I don't remember his name..

http://turbolabofamerica.com

Also on Youtube

I have been in contact with Ian at Turbolabofamerica. Pretty sure i'll be having them rebuild and fix the wastegate issues.
Thanks!

[Birdoprey]

Update: Saved up the $$$ and sent both turbos to turbo lab of America to rebuild. That took much longer than expected. Got the turbo's put back on and replaced the CCV tubes/valves while there. All seems good. Have put over 700mi on it so far and no smoking so far.

[Frankkao14]

Originally Posted by Birdoprey

Update: Saved up the $$$ and sent both turbos to turbo lab of America to rebuild. That took much longer than expected. Got the turbo's put back on and replaced the CCV tubes/valves while there. All seems good. Have put over 700mi on it so far and no smoking so far.

How much did the turbo rebuild cost if you dont mind me asking?

[Birdoprey]

Was $675(including return shipping) to rebuild both turbos AND to fix the waste gate issue(too much slack in the bushing) on both. One of my turbos had to have the compressor impeller replaced. They didn't charge me for that. I've very pleased.

[Ryan5034]

Glad to hear you got it back together. Nothing like that first startup to make you nervous and excited the whole time. :-)

[Birdoprey]

Originally Posted by Ryan5034

Glad to hear you got it back together. Nothing like that first startup to make you nervous and excited the whole time. :-)

Thats no kidding! And waiting to see if its going to smoke was fun too....lol