Oil Change Inquiry

[Usmcorpse]

BLUF: stick with the OEM oil change kit from ECS or try a different oil type since vehicle has 110k miles

2012 X5 E70 35i

Looking for opinions on BMW OEM oil, Liqui Molly or some other high end oil for a relatively high mileage vehicle

[pdX5M]

Which model E70 - 35i, 35d, 50i, or M? This will help us make suggestions.

Personally I run Liqui Moly 5w-40 in the S63 motor in my M.

[Dawgz]

Liquimoly 5w-40 for my x5m, nothing else!

[Molez93]

Originally Posted by Dawgz

Liquimoly 5w-40 for my x5m, nothing else!

Same here. Oil analysis was better since switching to Liquimoly from Castrol for sure- burning about half as much oil between changes too.

Edit: could have also mentioned I’ve owned this one since the 103k mile mark. It has ~118k now in 18 months.

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by Dawgz

Liquimoly 5w-40 for my x5m, nothing else!

Same here too! Liquimoly 5w-40 and 1.5cans of their Mos2 additive. Currently at 153,000 miles on the original N63 engine, all cylinders were within 5% on the leakdown test and can bearings and cylinder walls looked excellent when I did the valve seal guides approx 5,000 miles ago. Highly recommend this oil.

[Thecastle]

I’ve stuck with Bmw ll01 oil 5w-30 on both my s63 and n63tu. No Detectable oil consumption in either engine. Of course the viscosity of the oil that’s best depends A bit on the climate and the mileage of the engine. My s63 has 61k miles, and my n63tu has 68k miles.

I have used liquimoly on my 335d, and it’s what my indies use. So it’s in my diffs. But I haven’t found any difference between liquimoly, readline, or Castrol and mobile.

I have used mos2 on the diesel and ceratech on both the x5m and 550i. I’ve noticed the car idles a bit smoother with ceratech. But no noticeable difference in fuel economy or Performance. Might make those bearings last longer.

I’ve not run the cars more than about 6k miles between oil changes mainly because the dealer has been offering specials of 49.95 and recently 29.95 or I’ve had an oil pan leak, so the cars are changed frequently. Though I’d be okay with 8k - 10k changes on synthetic. But at these cheap prices why not.

I’ve had several higher mileage bmws and tuned cars and didn’t find any benefit to go to say 5-40 for street use. But if you live in a hot climate, have oil consumption issues, a worn engine, or track using thicker oil has its benefits. I would not use heavier oils say in Canada during the winter.

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by Thecastle

I’ve stuck with Bmw ll01 oil 5w-30 on both my s63 and n63tu. No Detectable oil consumption in either engine. Of course the viscosity of the oil that’s best depends A bit on the climate and the mileage of the engine. My s63 has 61k miles, and my n63tu has 68k miles.

I have used liquimoly on my 335d, and it’s what my indies use. So it’s in my diffs. But I haven’t found any difference between liquimoly, readline, or Castrol and mobile.

I have used mos2 on the diesel and ceratech on both the x5m and 550i. I’ve noticed the car idles a bit smoother with ceratech. But no noticeable difference in fuel economy or Performance. Might make those bearings last longer.

I’ve not run the cars more than about 6k miles between oil changes mainly because the dealer has been offering specials of 49.95 and recently 29.95 or I’ve had an oil pan leak, so the cars are changed frequently. Though I’d be okay with 8k - 10k changes on synthetic. But at these cheap prices why not.

I’ve had several higher mileage bmws and tuned cars and didn’t find any benefit to go to say 5-40 for street use. But if you live in a hot climate, have oil consumption issues, a worn engine, or track using thicker oil has its benefits. I would not use heavier oils say in Canada during the winter.

I'll agree with ya that Canada type climates don't need the heavier oil, I am in Arizona where we hit 116+ and it makes a huge difference. You should try it in your n63 and s63. I noticed an immediate smoother less "metal" Idle and smoothness throughout the rpm band on mine.

The n63& s63 are harder on oil with the hot-vee setup then other engines. The N63 has it worse then the S63 due to N's air cleaner design acting as heatsheild, reflecting heat right back on and the fact that they are much more likely to be stuck in traffic/grocery getter then the S63. Being stuck in stop and go traffic in the summer heat is much worse for these engines then a 130+mph blast down a deserted stretch of highway so having thicker oil is a very real benefit to them.

One of the first things I had to fix on mine when I bought it were coked up turbo oil return lines from overheated oil and why I switched from the 5-30 weight oils.

[NorthCountryGuy]

I use 15-50 in both my M’s in the spring/summer.
I have no consumption issues.

[Poppyboy]

Order the Liqui Moly 5W-30 kit from FCP Euro. Great deal and shipping with lifetime warranty (returns) on oil and filter. $63 delivered. https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...427566327kt-lm

[Dawgz]

Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck

Same here too! Liquimoly 5w-40 and 1.5cans of their Mos2 additive. Currently at 153,000 miles on the original N63 engine, all cylinders were within 5% on the leakdown test and can bearings and cylinder walls looked excellent when I did the valve seal guides approx 5,000 miles ago. Highly recommend this oil.

I just started using ceratec. Have you tried it yet?

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by Dawgz

I just started using ceratec. Have you tried it yet?

I have, I used it about 40k miles ago, it says to use every 50k so will use it again on next oil change.

[Autobacs]

LL01 5W-40 here. I would not go higher unless you have a built engine with larger tolerances. I.E. 15W-50 on my 1100 WHP GTR. The BMW engineers know what they are talking about as far as what viscosity to use on a stock X5 engine.

[Thecastle]

Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck

I have, I used it about 40k miles ago, it says to use every 50k so will use it again on next oil change.

I’ve used it as well, and noticed an immediate improvement in idle smoothness. Then changed the oil ran maybe 6k miles without ceratec then changed the oil and added it again and noticed a smoother idle again. This is anecdotal I know, but I wonder how long it really stays in the engine after an oil change.

You commented above, about heat in the n63, and I plan to tackle that engine next for longevity. I have swapped in a 90c (93c really) thermostat, turbo blankets and wrapped my lines over/near the turbos, to improve engine longevity, lower under hood temps, and shield all the plastic that bmw sticks by the hot spots in the bay of my x5M. I’ve got a “90c” thermostat on order for the n63tu, maybe a turbo blanket.

P.s. on my s63 I fully heated that vehicle up, blasted it on multiple pulls to 100+. Parked it. With the turbo blanket on I could touch the top of the turbos it was that cool. I let it sit for 20 minutes to bake with the hood closed. My temp gun said the temp was 273f on the heathsield by the 02 sensors, 165f on the turbo blanket and my wrapped emission lines were 130f over the turbo blanket inside their heat shield. The temp rose significantly in the bay after parking. I’d estimate the turbo blanket was about 110-120f on top after the pulls before it sat with no airflow, things were cool enough I could rest my hand on them. That was a dramatic improvement. You can feel it just by opening the hood, when the heat or lack of blasts your face.

[Dawgz]

Originally Posted by Thecastle

I’ve used it as well, and noticed an immediate improvement in idle smoothness. Then changed the oil ran maybe 6k miles without ceratec then changed the oil and added it again and noticed a smoother idle again. This is anecdotal I know, but I wonder how long it really stays in the engine after an oil change.

You commented above, about heat in the n63, and I plan to tackle that engine next for longevity. I have swapped in a 90c (93c really) thermostat, turbo blankets and wrapped my lines over/near the turbos, to improve engine longevity, lower under hood temps, and shield all the plastic that bmw sticks by the hot spots in the bay of my x5M. I’ve got a “90c” thermostat on order for the n63tu, maybe a turbo blanket.

P.s. on my s63 I fully heated that vehicle up, blasted it on multiple pulls to 100+. Parked it. With the turbo blanket on I could touch the top of the turbos it was that cool. I let it sit for 20 minutes to bake with the hood closed. My temp gun said the temp was 273f on the heathsield by the 02 sensors, 165f on the turbo blanket and my wrapped emission lines were 130f over the turbo blanket inside their heat shield. The temp rose significantly in the bay after parking. I’d estimate the turbo blanket was about 110-120f on top after the pulls before it sat with no airflow, things were cool enough I could rest my hand on them. That was a dramatic improvement. You can feel it just by opening the hood, when the heat or lack of blasts your face.

My thing with the turbo blankets is that it will do a better job than the stock heat shield for sure but the oil lines that run in the valley are directly below the turbos and will be subject to even further hotter temps. That area is a prime spot for cooking the oil.

[Thecastle]

Originally Posted by Dawgz

My thing with the turbo blankets is that it will do a better job than the stock heat shield for sure but the oil lines that run in the valley are directly below the turbos and will be subject to even further hotter temps. That area is a prime spot for cooking the oil.

That would seem to be a reasonable concern, except the turbo blanket that I have only cover the hot side of the turbo and the cats. But they do not cover any of the area of the cold side (Compressor), coolant lines or oil lines. Engineering explained did an in depth analysis of the temp impacts of a turbo blanket and found very little (less than 2c temp difference) to the oil temps and bearing temps. Ultimately the same amount of heat is flowing through the turbo as always had, the blanket blocks the exhaust side heat from flowing out of the turbine and exhaust to areas it’s not wanted aka engine bay.

I can say with my own temp measurements my in take temps are lower and my center assembly on the turbos is the same. No measurable increase in coolant or oil temps. These turbos are water cooled and the car circulates coolant through the bearing housing after shutdown.

Interestingly enough m57 bmws do not use coolant to cool the turbos, only oil. They hold up fine because of the modern designs of turbos to leak less heat into the bearings and better oil chemistry that can handle higher temps.

[Dawgz]

Originally Posted by Thecastle

That would seem to be a reasonable concern, except the turbo blanket that I have only cover the hot side of the turbo and the cats. But they do not cover any of the area of the cold side (Compressor), coolant lines or oil lines. Engineering explained did an in depth analysis of the temp impacts of a turbo blanket and found very little (less than 2c temp difference) to the oil temps and bearing temps. Ultimately the same amount of heat is flowing through the turbo as always had, the blanket blocks the exhaust side heat from flowing out of the turbine and exhaust to areas it’s not wanted aka engine bay.

I can say with my own temp measurements my in take temps are lower and my center assembly on the turbos is the same. No measurable increase in coolant or oil temps. These turbos are water cooled and the car circulates coolant through the bearing housing after shutdown.

Interestingly enough m57 bmws do not use coolant to cool the turbos, only oil. They hold up fine because of the modern designs of turbos to leak less heat into the bearings and better oil chemistry that can handle higher temps.

Yea so it is or similar to the PTP turbo blanket which covers hot side and portion of the Downpipes.

Even so, the valley of the S63/N63 has oil lines that run directly below the hot side... Here's a picture.

[Thecastle]

the oil return lines sit under the compressor (cool side) at the front of the engine. Air comes in at the front of the engine from the intake to the compressors, The rear of the engine is where the turbines and hot side sit, at the rear of the engine which is not over the oil return block. I can measure the oil lines, and they have hardly changed in temp. You can see them from the front of the engine with the heat shield off. I noticed mine are leaking slightly..... anyway the lines are located this way to stay away form the exhaust side. The manifolds all run along the side of the engine which is the hottest part, and by placing the oil return block in the center its the place furthest from the manifolds on the top of the engine. The manifolds will be hotter than the turbine. The turbine spins by the action of hot manifold gases expanding into cooler exhaust. Expansion cools.

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by Thecastle

I’ve used it as well, and noticed an immediate improvement in idle smoothness. Then changed the oil ran maybe 6k miles without ceratec then changed the oil and added it again and noticed a smoother idle again. This is anecdotal I know, but I wonder how long it really stays in the engine after an oil change.

You commented above, about heat in the n63, and I plan to tackle that engine next for longevity. I have swapped in a 90c (93c really) thermostat, turbo blankets and wrapped my lines over/near the turbos, to improve engine longevity, lower under hood temps, and shield all the plastic that bmw sticks by the hot spots in the bay of my x5M. I’ve got a “90c” thermostat on order for the n63tu, maybe a turbo blanket.

P.s. on my s63 I fully heated that vehicle up, blasted it on multiple pulls to 100+. Parked it. With the turbo blanket on I could touch the top of the turbos it was that cool. I let it sit for 20 minutes to bake with the hood closed. My temp gun said the temp was 273f on the heathsield by the 02 sensors, 165f on the turbo blanket and my wrapped emission lines were 130f over the turbo blanket inside their heat shield. The temp rose significantly in the bay after parking. I’d estimate the turbo blanket was about 110-120f on top after the pulls before it sat with no airflow, things were cool enough I could rest my hand on them. That was a dramatic improvement. You can feel it just by opening the hood, when the heat or lack of blasts your face.

Thats pretty awesome about the turbo blanket I've been thinking about doing a blanket myself, probably going to wrap the turbine side withe DEI Titanium and see how it does first since I have it on hand and I have to let the wallet rest a bit after investing in a Mig and a Plasma recently.

DEI's Titanium is pretty amazing stuff but does have its limits, I wrapped my headers about 40K miles ago and most of it still looks brand new however it has been scorched off on one point on both sides, this is where the headers almost touch on both sides so the heat is insane. Will be interesting to see how it holds up on the turbine side of the turbo. Wrapping your headers really does help with the temps though so I recommend it too.

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by Dawgz

My thing with the turbo blankets is that it will do a better job than the stock heat shield for sure but the oil lines that run in the valley are directly below the turbos and will be subject to even further hotter temps. That area is a prime spot for cooking the oil.

I had coked up oil return lines that completely blocked the oil return from the turbos, was burning a quart every 100 miles (yes 100!) shortly after I bought mine Amazing the engine still even ran as well as it did but the carbon buildup was INSANE. I had never seen carbon buildup inside of headers that was 1/4" thick, I had to use a dremel to remove it, was like chipping away at concrete.

Don't know if the previous owner just used crap oil or the turbo coolant pump failed before or just the heat but didn't take any changes and wrapped everything in heat reflected wrap, including that goofy coolant pipe that is down there and runs from head to head.

[slovakE70]

I'm using 5W-50 Mobil 1 oil in my N63. No problems at all. Oil doesn't seem any thicker than 5W-40 i was using before.

[slovakE70]

Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck

I have, I used it about 40k miles ago, it says to use every 50k so will use it again on next oil change.

I was thinking about using a Ceratec, but the cappuccino - like consistency doesn't seem to me like a good idea to pour into my engine.
But the product has good reviews and it seems like you guys had good experiences using it.

[Colodano]

I have run the Liqui Moly in mine since right around 100K, up to 136 now...nothing but good to say about it.