04-13-2016, 08:07 AM | #89 | |||
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M4 has two turbos and makes bigger numbers and more power to compete with the Mustangs and camaro and other muscle cars and GT cars. The m235/40 is a great blend of power, performance and reliability. Slot the M2 in with a slightly larger turbo than the M235 that's not a big honking turbo and its goldilocks. I'm actually surprised at how much energy people are wasting trying to shoot down what's obvious ... Oh ye with so little faith In BMW M... |
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04-13-2016, 08:21 AM | #90 |
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So a Pure 2 turbo on an M2=everyone on the forum would be happy?
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04-13-2016, 08:29 AM | #91 | |
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I'd even be good with just the stage 1. And don't get me wrong, I OK with a standard N55 turbo, given the low price of the car. I guess I take slight issue with the fact that the 340 is putting down 330 whp stock. At least for bragging rights on the internet, I'd have liked to see the M2 similarly underrated.
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04-13-2016, 08:30 AM | #92 |
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I thought you were using it as alleged support that the turbo is different vs. the N55, which is what the rest of your post was trying to accomplish.
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04-13-2016, 08:36 AM | #93 | |
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Anyone who has driven a Euro E36 M and a US E36 M will indeed tell you the US E36 M is a joke of a car. It's been built into a very reliable track platform but that is besides the point. This is as obvious as the Earth not being flat. The US got completely screwed with the E36. When you drive the Euro version it's like a different car. 50% more power does that. Secondly, plenty of people said the 1M wasn't a 'real' M car due to the N54. It did not use a 'real' M engine, it used the 740i/Z4 35i engine which was never destined for a M car. The fact that it's rare and looks really cool doesn't change the fact it is not an M engine. M designates 'their' engines with an S. They've been doing that for a long time. If it does not have an 'S', it is not designed by M. Apparently, someone at M division thought the changes wrought to the N55 for the M4 were enough to warrant a 'S'. The N55 they used for the M2 was not. The BMWNA marketing could not be more deceptive. They allowed everyone to test euro spec cars with manual seats which won't even be sold in the US. |
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04-13-2016, 09:21 AM | #94 | |||
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It is clear that the engine is much closer to the N55 than the S55, and what is also clear is that I don't think it makes a lick of difference. It sits in a nice power niche below the M3/4, right where they wanted it, and punches above its weight. True M, not true M? Not sure it matters. Nobody's getting ripped off here when you can get one for less than an M235i. You can't slap the F80 chassis on one of those for $0. |
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04-13-2016, 10:09 AM | #95 |
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My guess is same turbo housing milled out with a bigger impeller, similar to RB / Pure turbos. Would be fairly cheap and easy for BMW to do and allow the turbo to remain in it's efficiency range with the higher power numbers. Also would explain how it's making more power up top. I'd be happy with this. We'll all know for sure soon enough.
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04-13-2016, 10:46 AM | #96 | |
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-The M2 engine is a N55 -N55 engines have open deck blocks -BMW's tech training docs explicitly states that they only describe parts that are different from the std N55 (ie, any part not mentioned is similar to the normal N55) -BMW M tech training docs does not say that the M2 N55 engine has gotten a new block but lists all other parts that are different from the regular N55 Nothing would be better than the M2 engine having a closed deck block, but BMW does NOT list the block as one of the parts that have been modified on the N55 for the M2 (and as stated above, BMW writes that the tech training doc describes parts that are changed for the M2 engine). The N55 engine is by default an open deck block and as long as BMW does not claim the block is new or changed it is an open deck block. They don't need to repeat that info in the M2 docs. Just like they don't repeat a lot of other basic info not specific for the M2. |
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04-13-2016, 11:29 AM | #97 | |
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It also doesn't make much financial sense to do this. The R&D it took to develop the S55 has already been paid for, why not get a higher return on R&D investment by putting the S55 into the M2, which is going to sell like hot cakes? |
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04-13-2016, 12:29 PM | #98 | |
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BMW DOES CLAIM IT HAS CHANGED! Jesus man. You just choose to ignore the BMW sources stating as such. Once again, you have how many sources saying it's an open deck block? Zero. All of BMW's sources that comment on it, call it closed.
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04-13-2016, 12:32 PM | #99 | |
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Why didn't they put the S55, twins and all into the M2? Really? So...same motor/drivetrain/suspension/trans...and you want a ~15k discount vs. an M4? Let alone that the M2 would then be faster than the M4...
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04-13-2016, 12:33 PM | #100 | |
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04-13-2016, 12:51 PM | #101 | |
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04-13-2016, 12:57 PM | #102 | |
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Yes, we're talking about the block. BMW has stated the M2 uses a closed deck version of the N55 block. Guess what else does? The S55. It's likely that the M2 is using a version of the S55 block for exactly the reasons you posted. No sense in making a completely new closed deck block. Unless BMW literature is wrong about the block. A little mistake that one would have thought would have been corrected after being posted for MONTHS already.
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04-13-2016, 01:29 PM | #103 | |
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So you're agreeing with me that the M2 likely has an S55 closed-deck block, if it is indeed closed-deck. Obviously BMW could easily de-tune the S55 by using a smaller single turbo (like the N55) and do away with the air/water intercooler in exchange for the N55-like air/air intercooler....etc. BMW might be calling it a N55 for the sake of marketing and not stepping on the M4's toes when in fact it's more S55 than N55. |
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04-13-2016, 01:36 PM | #104 | |
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If it is indeed closed deck, I think what you described is a likely accurate description of what the M2's "N55" really is. I mean, of course some different machining operations may be made to the M2's block after initial casting. But if it's closed deck, one would think it has its basis in the S55. Maybe an S55 short block for strength, who knows about the heads, and N55 turbo/accessories. Then again, maybe it's a generally stock M235 N55, with drop-in pistons from the S55, and a slightly larger compressor wheel to hold boost past 6k. Time will tell, awesome little car regardless.
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04-13-2016, 01:47 PM | #105 |
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One other thing that jumped out at me in the M2's docs were the reference to the M2's engine as having gray-cast sleeves.
The S55 doesn't have traditional sleeves. BMW utilizes a technique called twin-arc spraying which is much thinner/lighter but just as strong as traditional sleeves. Supposedly the B58 is using the same technique (the B58 is also closed-deck). Just food for thought. |
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04-13-2016, 01:50 PM | #106 | |
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BMW M used to be anti-sleeving. Hence the iron lump in the S54. Times, they are a-changin'
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04-13-2016, 01:51 PM | #107 | |||
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But that's the only source we have that claims this. In my opinion the BMW USA website is a source of a lower degree than the official BMW AG/M press releases and technical training documents. The manufacturer of the car has published a press release and a technical training document that in the first case doesn't mention anything about a new block and in the second case makes a point of saying that it's only the parts that differ from the normal N55 that is described. From the Tech training doc: http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/att...2&d=1457027357 Quote:
In my opinion the fact that the official BMW litterature explicitly says that the Tech training doc ONLY describes the parts that are different from the N55B30O0 engine and that this document says NOTHING about a new block or a closed deck block is very strong evidence indicating that the N55B30T0 (M2) engine uses the exact same block as the other N55 engines... I guess it all depends on whether we rely on the official BMW AG/M litterature or the BMW USA website here... |
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04-13-2016, 01:55 PM | #108 | |
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So naturally, you can't rely on it for teaching block configuration. You're making an assumption. And you know what they say.
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04-13-2016, 01:59 PM | #109 | ||
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The S55 and N55 engine blocks are very different both externally and internally. |
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04-13-2016, 02:01 PM | #110 |
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