The best audio upgrade for the X5

[argento]

Question, is the bmw diplexer solely a HPF? Why wouldn't bmw just use an inline capacitor?

Anyone seen inside?

[SlowX6M]

RL, question for you. I am thinking about adding low pass filters to all of my midranges, and if I am going to open up rear doors and rear deck again, I am thinking about also swapping the bimmertech tweeters to the infinity that you're using. Do they fit stock locations?

Also, since the Infinity tweeters come with their own crossovers and their frequency response is 2,500-25,000hz, what kind of low pass filter should I get for the midranges? I assume it shouldn't be a sharp cutoff at 2,500hz?

Sorry for asking what may be basic questions, just trying to learn.

[RL18]

Originally Posted by SlowX6M

RL, question for you. I am thinking about adding low pass filters to all of my midranges, and if I am going to open up rear doors and rear deck again, I am thinking about also swapping the bimmertech tweeters to the infinity that you're using. Do they fit stock locations?

Also, since the Infinity tweeters come with their own crossovers and their frequency response is 2,500-25,000hz, what kind of low pass filter should I get for the midranges? I assume it shouldn't be a sharp cutoff at 2,500hz?

Sorry for asking what may be basic questions, just trying to learn.

So as far as low pass filters I have since removed the ones I got from parts express since they developed a static noise lately that went away when I removed them. So I guess they're poor quality... anyway I wouldn't recommend them anymore. So now I'm back to square one for my filtering. There are options though, first is an audio frog crossover unit here that could be used, it has a crossover at 4200hz: https://www.crutchfield.com/p_898GS4...og-GS410C.html

Not sure about fitment they look kind of bulky.

Did some more searching though and found these crutchfield brand component speakers that they sell that comes with a crossover unit that has a crossover point of 3.5khz: https://www.crutchfield.com/p_777P52...CB.html?tp=106

Not ideal, but better than paying double the price for the audiofrogs and the crossover itself is much smaller and would most likely fit nicely in the doors. Also you could use the tweeters as they are 3/4"tweeters with nearly identical specs to the infinity tweeters. Not sure if they play identical though. I'll bought a set though and I'll be testing them. I'll also compare the tweeters too.

To mount the tweeters in the stock locations I used one of the supplied adapters for the infinity speaker then used a thin strip around it of the glue on the dynamat (i think its butyl glue) then press it in. So far that has proven to hold the tweeters in very snugly and I haven't experienced any rattling.

Updating with more crossover options...

I'll be trying these as well they seem the most ideal in terms of crossover point and price, they're found on ebay, beware though, you want the version with a woofer frequency of 20-4.3khz, not the other version: https://audiopipe.com/products/crx-2...683a&_ss=r

Ct sounds crossover, similar 3.5khz crossover to the sound ordnance crossover mentioned above, but better priced: https://www.ctsounds.com/products/meso-2-way-crossover

[sunny_j]

thought I'd chime in on the topic. recently I upgraded my x5d from $677 top_hifi to $752 individual and it was a big step up. $752 sounds clear, crisper, subs are louder and the sound stage is completely different. with individual it seems the centre channel works harder because when listening to music if sounds if the vocals are coming from the dash with the rest of the music from the sides. Overall I am very impressed but it can still use a dedicated sub in the cargo area to hit those lower frequencies.











Then took $677 that I removed and sold it to a friend and installed it into his base audio x5. he couldn't be happier with the upgrade. It's amazing BMW even offered the base audio because it was pretty bad. the subs seemed to weigh less that the mids lol

[RL18]

Originally Posted by sunny_j

thought I'd chime in on the topic. recently I upgraded my x5d from $677 top_hifi to $752 individual and it was a big step up. $752 sounds clear, crisper, subs are louder and the sound stage is completely different. with individual it seems the centre channel works harder because when listening to music if sounds if the vocals are coming from the dash with the rest of the music from the sides. Overall I am very impressed but it can still use a dedicated sub in the cargo area to hit those lower frequencies.

So you upgraded the amp from individual too? Then gave your friend the complete hifi system? That's a pretty sweet swap! Was it plug and play?

That base audio system is terrible. Although, make fun of the 6.5" underseats but I had those things tuned very nicely until I upgraded to the grs 8" underseats.

[sunny_j]

752 was plug in play minus coding the individual amp

base to 677 was not

[Nyc Dito]

Originally Posted by sunny_j

752 was plug in play minus coding the individual amp

base to 677 was not

SO those with 677 amp's can swap to a 752 amp, same speakers and all..just code it? And we'll notice it

[SlowX6M]

I doubt there is much, if any, difference between 677 and 752 amps. In fact, the "individual" system is inferior to the 677 in the way that it uses coaxial center speaker vs separate midrange + tweeter in the 677.

[RL18]

From the specs I've seen:

752 amp outputs 825watts total @112db (7x75w + 2x150w)


677 amp outputs 600watts total @110db (7x50w + 2x125w)

So the 752 system definitely must be a bit louder. Keep in mind, to the human ear a 3db increase is twice as loud. If you want to be louder than that then aftermarket amps will be needed. With my custom system with just the 6 sets of midranges and tweeters and 2 underseats I measure @ about 118db measured with my audiocontrol rta microphone.

[argento]

Originally Posted by argento

Question, is the bmw diplexer solely a HPF? Why wouldn't bmw just use an inline capacitor?

Anyone seen inside?

In for a penny...

Wanted to add a couple important notes for those interested in upgrading to B&W speakers:

1. The front door upgrade is slightly more complicated for those with the S752A individual audio option b/c it has diplexers in the front door panels. The diplexer input is 3-pin coming from the 3-pin midrange. The B&W (S6F1A) midrange only has a 2-pin output. The diplexer acts as the crossover for both the midrange and tweeter. Signal goes through the midrange, to the diplexer, and back out to the speakers filtered at the crossover points. In case you were wondering, the B&W diplexers have 4 pin inputs. Currently working options...if anyone has seen the diplexer wiring in an F90 M5 (or equivalent) please post. The midrange in that system, from what I see, also has a 2pin connectors so not sure where the 4pin to the B&W diplexer comes from. Looks like the G05, 06, and 07 don't have diplexers meaning the amp is providing filtering. If you have the S677A Top Hifi Audio System, you can swap in the B&W's like SlowX6M describes...which would likely work for the S752A option as well...just no midrange filtering. I will do this if I don't find a diplexer solution.

2. I ordered an older (same p/n, green label) used E70/E71 diplexer off ebay to examine the wiring. I can then determine if we can reuse the diplexer with the B&W speakers. However in doing so I discovered that that the two capacitors in the diplexer are rated at 6.8uF and 8.2uF, BUT both measure 17uF. This means that the capacitor's chemical makeup degrades over time and changes the crossover frequency to each speaker. Not being an EE and ignoring the cap's ESR measurement for this discussion, the bottom line is that the crossover frequency going to the speakers is based on the measured capacitance at the time and in this case 17.04uF. As a check, I mentioned earlier I purchased a new B&W tweeter with inline cap that measured 4.67uF...I then removed the shrinkwrap and found the cap rated to 4.7uF. IE: While the diplexer cap is rated to 6.8uF which yields a midrange low pass xo point of 4150Hz, the measured capacitance is 17uF putting the actual midrange low pass xo point at 1650Hz and degrading. Because the cap used for the tweeter also measures 17.04uF and is also 4 ohms, the tweeter high pass crossover point is also 1650Hz...no overlap! This potential cap degradation obviously applies to all aging inline caps as well.


3. As already mentioned, the B&W midrange has two 2-pin connectors. I checked polarity, and it appears the amp input connector can go to either socket location and the midrange and tweeter remain in-phase with the system.

4. I replaced one side of the D-Pillar speakers with B&W. With both S752A and S6F1A speakers in the D-pillars, the difference is minor, with just a bit more brightness out of the B&W. I can confirm what SlowX6M mentioned earlier, that the D-pillar location is not well powered. For reference, the S752A total load was 2 ohms, but by swapping in the S6F1A speakers the total load goes to 3.8 ohms.

5. S6F1A midrange speaker socket connections have a locking feature which require a tiny flat head to be wedged into connector socket left (looking at speaker bottom with connection sockets at 12 o’clock position) side while pulling on connector to remove. The mating connector has a tiny protrusion on one side that catches inside the connector socket of the S6F1A speaker. This is not the case with the S752A sockets

6. FYI Center Channel upgrade: the S752A total load was 4 ohms, but by swapping in the S6F1A speakers the total load is now 3.8 ohms.

I will start to post details in my build thread as soon as I have solutions...

[RL18]

@argento would you happen to be able to measure the impedance on the b&w midranges? I'd assume it's 4ohms but just want to be sure.

Would you be able to take some pictures of what you mean by the connectors your talking about and that inline capacitors.

I actually just ordered some b&w midranges to test out too... and two different crossovers to test. And test the sound ordnance 3/4" tweeters vs infinity 3/4" tweeters.

I'll be using my rta microphone to see if I can get some hard data on what's best for upgrades. And try to find an easy crossover upgrade to better filter frequencies for those that would like to stick with the factory system but want added filtering

[argento]

Originally Posted by RL18

@argento would you happen to be able to measure the impedance on the b&w midranges? I'd assume it's 4ohms but just want to be sure.

Would you be able to take some pictures of what you mean by the connectors your talking about and that inline capacitors.

I actually just ordered some b&w midranges to test out too... and two different crossovers to test. And test the sound ordnance 3/4" tweeters vs infinity 3/4" tweeters.

I'll be using my rta microphone to see if I can get some hard data on what's best for upgrades. And try to find an easy crossover upgrade to better filter frequencies for those that would like to stick with the factory system but want added filtering

The B&W midrange (774) measure 9ohms. The B&W tweeter (629) measures 6.5ohms. The varying impedances make it complicated, lol.

S752A Diplexer, which I believe is a second order low pass filter and a second order high pass filter. S752A Midrange (904) cutoff is 4150 Hz. S752A Tweeter (194) cutoff is 1715Hz.


S6F1A Tweeter with inline filter; High pass at 5245Hz:


Connections:

[argento]

This is what I THINK the S752A Rear Door and D-Pillar components wiring diagram looks like...working same for S752A front door with diplexer...then attempting to see how I connect to the S6F1A midrange. I think I see a path forward...still working.

Any EEs or wiring schematic guru's out there willing to help? I basically used the continuity setting on my multimeter...the black circle where it splits is assumed as I didn't want to disassemble my speakers (I get continuity from pin 3 to pin 5 and I know from wires pin 3 goes to cap)...and it seemed the only way which I saw it worked in parallel. Total Load of 2 ohms.

[RL18]

Originally Posted by argento

This is what I THINK the S752A Rear Door and D-Pillar components wiring diagram looks like...working same for S752A front door with diplexer...then attempting to see how I connect to the S6F1A midrange. I think I see a path forward...still working.

Any EEs or wiring schematic guru's out there willing to help? I basically used the continuity setting on my multimeter...the black circle where it splits is assumed as I didn't want to disassemble my speakers (I get continuity from pin 3 to pin 5 and I know from wires pin 3 goes to cap)...and it seemed the only way which I saw it worked in parallel. Total Load of 2 ohms.

Attachment 2492417

In parallel you actually be closer to 4ohms total impedance. Which should be okay for the factory amp, most amps can handle to 2ohms no problem though. You want the speakers in parallel, in series the total impedance would be added together

[RL18]

Originally Posted by argento

The B&W midrange (774) measure 9ohms. The B&W tweeter (629) measures 6.5ohms. The varying impedances make it complicated, lol.

S752A Diplexer, which I believe is a second order low pass filter and a second order high pass filter. S752A Midrange (904) cutoff is 4150 Hz. S752A Tweeter (194) cutoff is 1715Hz.
Attachment 2492398

S6F1A Tweeter with inline filter; High pass at 5245Hz:
Attachment 2492399

Connections:
Attachment 2492434

That crossover is interesting. I'm not sure what that three pin wire is for. Maybe there's another speaker in series with the front door midranges? I know my front door mids were parallel with my underseat woofers, so I'm wondering if you have another speaker wired in with the midranges and tweeters. I wish bmw was better about posting audio specs like you would find on aftermarket audio gear.

[argento]

Originally Posted by RL18

That crossover is interesting. I'm not sure what that three pin wire is for. Maybe there's another speaker in series with the front door midranges? I know my front door mids were parallel with my underseat woofers, so I'm wondering if you have another speaker wired in with the midranges and tweeters. I wish bmw was better about posting audio specs like you would find on aftermarket audio gear.

This is what I believe is going on in the front doors. A HPF and an LPF in parallel. The grey ovals are soldering points on the diplexer. Now I'm just working on the B&W midrange schematic...

Updated 1/2; XO points; Colors are indicative of oem wires: blue = yellow/blue, yellow=solid yellow, black=black/yellow, red = power, black = ground;


From the12volt:



Lmk if anyone finds any errors...

[RL18]

Originally Posted by argento

This is what I believe is going on in the front doors. A HPF and an LPF in parallel. The grey ovals are soldering points on the diplexer. Now I'm just working on the B&W midrange schematic...

Attachment 2492607

From the12volt:

Attachment 2492609 Attachment 2492610

Lmk if anyone finds any errors...

Ahh okay that makes more sense. From + & - on the amp -> + gets jumped from the 2-pin to the 3-pin and negative jumped from the 2-pin to the 3-pin -> + goes to the diplexer -> splits the + signal to the tweeter -> each + signal goes through filters and out to each speaker. I think I'm reading it right lol...

I think your impedance would be higher than stock setup, which means less power but better quality audio. But if you go with the aftermarket crossover (like I'm looking into now) the wiring will be simplified.... + & - from amp -> goes to input on crossover unit -> splits the signal to the midrange and tweeters (parallel wiring). I want to do some testing though to be sure these will work good for a stock system

[sunny_j]

If I remember correctly $752 only uses crossovers for the front door mid and tweeters

[RL18]

Just got my b&w midranges... Unfortunately I bought the door ones, so it looks like my 335d will be getting some b&w midranges in the front doors. After I test them first.

For future reference slowx6m's original part # is the right one but I found more options with this part #:

65139279632

Be sure you get the center channel speaker because the door speakers are too big, but if you have an e90 the door speakers from the b&w system will fit in the front doors.

And these are infact 9ohms, maybe closer to 10ohms. Which is interesting since all e70 x5s use a 4ohm midrange. Anyways, the right b&w speakers are on order for the front and rear doors and I'll be rewiring my door speakers w/ 16 guage wiring in favor of the 18 guage powering my speakers now

[SlowX6M]

Never realized there different size midranges. Come to think of it, the door panels must be different, in my e70 all 7 midranges were the same.

[SlowX6M]

I will measure the impedance on the diamond tweeter when I return from my vacation.

[SlowX6M]

Also, I am almost 100% positive there is no size difference between B&W speakers - the centers are exact the same size as the door, only the bezel is different.