The best audio upgrade for the X5

[SlowX6M]

I am not using this filter, just have it laying around. I dont know what the cut off frequencies are, I think I will go with the Hertz tweeter and filters as RL18 recommended.

[lonestar22]

Originally Posted by SlowX6M

I am not an expert, but this is just my theory when it comes to these subs.

The stock subwoofers are actually "mid woofers", and the Logic 7 headunit has an EQ that starts at 100hz, and a good subwoofer is supposed to hit as low as 20hz. Later tonight I will also check the Bowers EQ in my X6M to see what is the lowest frequency available, but I suspect it is probably the same 100hz. So the stock subwoofers probably do not really hit frequencies below 100hz.

The interesting part, is when if I were to adjust bass or EQ setting with the Logic 7 or the Bowers subs, it adjust properly and you can immediately hear the difference with every notch of adjustment. With Bavsound subs, adjusting EQ settings does almost nothing - I could drop 100-200-300hz frequencies all the way down, and there is very little difference if any - no reduction of bass whatsoever. When I had the Bavsound subs installed, I used to adjust bass setting almost to the minimum, and even then there was an overwhelming presence of muddy, unbalanced bass. So I theorize that Bavsound boosted low bass frequencies at the expense of mid bass frequencies, since it is almost impossible to get both out of such shallow woofer.

Also, the Bavsound subs are "one size fits all" - they offer the same subs for every BMW model with every possible audio system. The Bowers subs are really an evolution of previous high end systems such as the Logic 7, and so they are better balanced to the system.

I wish I could also swap in the Bowers amp, since all it takes is digital signal through an optic cable, but it needs to be coded in and thats probably impossible to do due to the ECU differences.

I'm going to assume that's because the bavsound speakers are 8ohm while the kem is 2ohm.

[argento]

Ok, I ordered everything I need to try out a low pass filter on the oem B&W midranges. I'm going to start with the D-Pillar locations and compare the sound of one with LPF and one without. I ordered 4 different LPF (6000, 5000, 3500, 2500), tweeter splitter off ebay, and oem connectors. After the fact I realized the splitter has a long lead time (Jan-Mar!), maybe it arrives sooner, but I ordered enough connectors to build my own splitter (just more expensive). I also got a micro crimper, dynamat, and acoustic foam. When my filtered B&W tweeter arrives I'll try to measure the capacitance to see if I can calculate a XO point...more later.

I don't doubt RL18 xo point at 4500, I just want to see if I can hear the difference since the LPF's are not too expensive.

Disclaimer: I'm not an audiophile, so my reporting will be FWIW.

[SlowX6M]

Haha, once you get involved in it, it only sucks you in deeper and deeper.

[argento]

Originally Posted by SlowX6M

Haha, once you get involved in it, it only sucks you in deeper and deeper.

That is no joke! But I wouldn't do it if it weren't fun. I'll definitely save some money and effort if I can't tell the difference between LPF and no LPF...gotta go, the sucking sound is calling me...

[SlowX6M]

Originally Posted by argento

That is no joke! But I wouldn't do it if it weren't fun. I'll definitely save some money and effort if I can't tell the difference between LPF and no LPF...gotta go, the sucking sound is calling me...

Did you get all the B&W midrange drivers already, or just the rear pillars?

I think the amp sends less power to the rear speakers.

[argento]

So far I'm 3 bw mids and 3 bw tweets. Was starting with the d pillars and center channel. Do we know what channels gets what power? I just assumed the 825w was split evenly among the 9 channels...about 90 watts to the subs each and the tweets/mids share 90...??

[SlowX6M]

Originally Posted by argento

So far I'm 3 bw mids and 3 bw tweets. Was starting with the d pillars and center channel. Do we know what channels gets what power? I just assumed the 825w was split evenly among the 9 channels...about 90 watts to the subs each and the tweets/mids share 90...??

Not really sure, but just going by the ear, with everything equal i think rear speakers are a bit quieter? I may be wrong.

[RL18]

Originally Posted by SlowX6M

Haha, once you get involved in it, it only sucks you in deeper and deeper.

So true

[argento]

EDIT: See post #58, I assumed an impedance of 4 ohms in this post...below I actually measured impedance and it's 6.5 ohms....


B&W Tweeter 65-13-9-279-629, Capacitance (measured w/multimeter) = 4.67 uF, which calculates to about XXXX Hz, High Pass.

The mfg left the shrink wrap open on the ends presumably to quality control the capacitance after assembly. I was on my way to cutting off the shrink wrap when I noticed.

I haven't popped in the tweeter, but it appears to be a direct fit, at least on the center dash mount. I will disassemble the D-Pillar speaker mounts next...the ones I bought from eBay so as not to damage the ones I'll be removing from the M.

[SlowX6M]

Originally Posted by argento

B&W Tweeter 65-13-9-279-629, Capacitance (measured w/multimeter) = 4.67 uF, which calculates to about 8500 Hz, High Pass.

The mfg left the shrink wrap open on the ends presumably to quality control the capacitance after assembly. I was on my way to cutting off the shrink wrap when I noticed.

I haven't popped in the tweeter, but it appears to be a direct fit, at least on the center dash mount. I will disassemble the D-Pillar speaker mounts next...the ones I bought from eBay so as not to damage the ones I'll be removing from the M.

So it did come without filter, and its response is 8,500hz to 20,000hz?

[argento]

Originally Posted by SlowX6M

So it did come without filter, and its response is 8,500hz to 20,000hz?

Correct, this tweeter model does come with a filter (capacitor) and the tweeter will thus receive 8500Hz - 24k Hz (per Option S752A Amp Specs, the only spec they give, smh).

I emailed Dayton Audio about a custom LPF...how hard can it be for them? HOWEVER, I'm not sure if an LPF at 10k or 12k is doing anything significant seeing as the mid is at some point incapable of playing higher frequencies...thoughts?

[SlowX6M]

Originally Posted by argento

Correct, this tweeter model does come with a filter (capacitor) and the tweeter will thus receive 8500Hz - 24k Hz (per Option S752A Amp Specs, the only spec they give, smh).

I emailed Dayton Audio about a custom LPF...how hard can it be for them? HOWEVER, I'm not sure if an LPF at 10k or 12k is doing anything significant seeing as the mid is at some point incapable of playing higher frequencies...thoughts?

8500hz sounds like a very high cutoff for a tweeter, and obviously for the mid. The Hertz tweeters that I posted with 1,500hz cut off can probably really free up the mids and have clearer highs.

That being said, BMW should be ashamed of themselves. You should see the B&W system in the X6M - it has these gorgeous stainless steel grilles, the speakers are backlit and I can change brightness and colors.

In the Rolls Royce the grilles are even more gorgeous, they are like work of art. Yet behind them, you get basically a run of the mill sound system that is only impressive because all other BMW's sound systems are basically subpar.

[argento]

WELL, hold on,...I assumed the tweeter had an impedance of 4 ohms, it doesn't specifically say. SO I just measured the resistance across the tweeter and it shows 6.5 ohms...SO that would put the XO point at 5225 Hz...

Actual measurements go from 6.4-6.8...so likely around 5K...

[SlowX6M]

Originally Posted by argento

WELL, hold on,...I assumed the tweeter had an impedance of 4 ohms, it doesn't specifically say. SO I just measured the resistance across the tweeter and it shows 6.5 ohms...SO that would put the XO point at 5225 Hz...

Still kind of meh.

I wonder how the diamond tweeter compares.

[argento]

Originally Posted by SlowX6M

Still kind of meh.

I wonder how the diamond tweeter compares.

Agree. Since you have one, check the impedance for posterity...

Well, at least I'll get to check the LPF at 6k...so all is not completely lost.

[SlowX6M]

Originally Posted by argento

Agree. Since you have one, check the impedance for posterity...

Well, at least I'll get to check the LPF at 6k...so all is not completely lost.

I already have it installed, and I have no idea how to check impendance.

Like I said, I couldn't hear much difference with the diamond vs bimmertech speaker, but I am sure its compromised by the filter I am using.

[argento]

Originally Posted by SlowX6M

I already have it installed, and I have no idea how to check impendance.

Like I said, I couldn't hear much difference with the diamond vs bimmertech speaker, but I am sure its compromised by the filter I am using.

Ah, not worth the effort...thanks though.

Based on your test I'm likely to just go with non-diamond all around or the bimmertech's.

[SlowX6M]

Originally Posted by argento

Ah, not worth the effort...thanks though.

Based on your test I'm likely to just go with non-diamond all around or the bimmertech's.

I'm going to end up with Hertz in the two front door (eventually) and a single diamond in the center. The rears are all bimmertech.

[RL18]

Argento based on your findings on the b&w tweeter, my guess is the hpf needed is probably the same as the bimmertech, and the grs tweeters I had purchased.

This is why I went with the infinity tweeters. The hertzs tweeters slowx6m is getting would be a great choice too.

[argento]

Installed the center dash B&W speakers and did a comparison with Individual Coax. And, FWIW, my initial findings are that I hear a tangible difference with increased SPL, clarity, and tweeter frequency levels which appears we don't have with the individual coax speaker.

I bought a center dash mount off ebay and mounted the B&W mid and tweeter, perfect fit for both as SlowX6M reported, plug and play. So I was able to play the same song, via CD, with Equalizer = flat; Fade = Center; L/R = Center; Volume = 55; Surround = OFF; I swapped back and forth between the B&W setup and the Indiv. Coax speaker. I also adjusted the fader to full front then back to center for comparison.

The SPL was apparent as my first reaction was to reduce the volume and the under dash seemed to reverberate. I'm going to place acoustic foam behind the center dash speaker to mitigate this.

I hear an improved clarity over the muddy coax, but with the materials of the B&W it was inevitable.

With the coax there appears to be a hole in the middle and the L/R door tweeters doing all the work. With the B&W working in the center dash it's a great compliment. I felt that with an upgrade in door tweeters, this system would have to be exceptional. I don't feel like now I have to upgrade the door tweeters and if I wasn't all-in to the upgrade I could enjoy it as-is for a while...for some it may be enough to fill in the middle front with these improvements.

I don't think any of this is new info as it squares with what SlowX6M reported. REALLY HAPPY so far, thanks for sharing your findings.

Disclaiming again, I'm not an audiophile and my goal is to get the best OEM sound possible, which I understand will never exceed a custom setup.

Pix...

S752A Individual Coax Speaker:


S6F1A B&W Mid and Tweeter:


S6F1A Tweeter and filter glued in place:


S6F1A Installed:

[SlowX6M]

Looking great. I think this is about as good as it can get without making custom enclosures, installing new amps, subs, etc.