The best audio upgrade for the X5

[SlowX6M]

Just wanted to share my experience with my recent audio upgrade.

I bought my 2012 X5 brand new, and it had the Logic 7 audio system, which at that time was the top of the line system available on the X5, at least the non-M models. I believe the X5M models also had "individual" audio options, but I'm not even sure if these were even different from the Logic 7.

Despite being top of the line, it was not a very impressive system to begin with, and after 8 years of wear and tear it started to sound very flat and I decided to upgrade it.

Back in January I purchased a complete kit from Bavsound - two subwoofers, seven midrange speakers, and seven tweeters. I did not need to upgrade the amp since Logic 7 digital amp already puts out I think 1000 or 1500 watts necessary to drive the upgraded speakers. Upon installing the Bavsound system, I was initially impressed - the subwoofers delivered a lot more punch, the midranges and tweeters were substantially "louder" than the stock speakers, and I was a satisfied for a short while.

After a while I started to notice rattles that I though were my door panel vibrating, but they turned out to be distortions from the Bavsound speakers. Also I noticed their tweeters had a lot of static noise. And their subs were completely out of balance with the midranges, delivering almost too much bass at any EQ setting, and the bass just sounded fake, like the "expanded" bass you get from cheap computer speakers.

At the same time I also had a 2017 X6M that came with Bang and Olufsen system. The B&O system was maybe a bit better than Logic 7 system in my X5, but also not very impressive. And then back in August I traded the 2017 X6M for the new 2021 X6M that came with Bowers & Wilkins system, and the B&W system is most certainly a substantial upgrade from the Logic 7.

So I ripped out the Bavsound garbage, and installed two B&W subs and seven B&W midranges. I did not use B&W tweeters because a) they don't come with inline filters, the B&W amp has an internal crossover and b) they are $900 each for the front ones as they use diamond cones. I bought seven tweeters from Bimmertech.

I am very satisfied right now, and I can vouch that this is the best upgrade for any BMW without going custom. It is not exactly audiophile system since BMW audio systems are lacking in general, but it doesn't disappoint.

All of BMW's systems including B&W are made by Harman Kardon, and all the speakers are exact the same size, but obviously they use different quality components and manufacturing process, and their B&W line is the best so far.

If anyone else is interested your part numbers are

65-13-2-622-510 - subwoofers (2)
65-13-2-622-774 - midrange speaker (7)
Bimmertech Alpha One A10 tweeter - (7)

Of course if you dont have Logic 7 or Individual, you'll also have to upgrade the amp to get full benefit of the speaker upgrade.

[christoepurrr]

Thanks for this. Recently acquired my Logic 7 equipped '11 X5 and agree that sound quality isn't that great. Now to find someone parting out a 2021 X6M

[SlowX6M]

Originally Posted by christoepurrr

Thanks for this. Recently acquired my Logic 7 equipped '11 X5 and agree that sound quality isn't that great. Now to find someone parting out a 2021 X6M

They aren't that expensive, the midranges were about $150 each, subs about $600 each, and the bimmertech tweeters are about $45 each. Well worth it for me.

[SlowX6M]

A little video that I made. Sorry for the quality, I am not an expert speaker or video maker, but I think it gets my point across.

[RL18]

Originally Posted by SlowX6M

A little video that I made. Sorry for the quality, I am not an expert speaker or video maker, but I think it gets my point across.

Nice video! Maybe if I get a good deal I'll try out the underseats. Biggest issue with the underseats is feeding them the right power and sending them a frequency range that they play well. I'd be willing to bet the bavsounds are decent but your logic 7 system probably is sending it frequencies it can't play well. For example my grs underseat woofers had a frequency range of 25-2000hz, I found that feeding them 25-400hz gave me the best output, anything outside of that there was distortion or I had to detune my eq settings in my dsp to get a good sound out of them. Those bimmertech tweeters look exactly like the GRS tweeters I had originally tried in my system. I personally think they sounded just as bad as the stock speakers and I really had to detune them in my dsp to get a sound out of them that wasn't ear piercing. Which is why I recommend going with these tweeters: https://www.crutchfield.com/p_108R37...TX.html?tp=107

They will fill out the sound a whole lot more and sound way more natural. Those bimmertechs probably have the same 6db per octave high pass filter at 8,000hz. Those infinity tweeters will play all the way down to 2500hz before they hit their filter.

[SlowX6M]

Originally Posted by RL18

Nice video! Maybe if I get a good deal I'll try out the underseats. Biggest issue with the underseats is feeding them the right power and sending them a frequency range that they play well. I'd be willing to bet the bavsounds are decent but your logic 7 system probably is sending it frequencies it can't play well. For example my grs underseat woofers had a frequency range of 25-2000hz, I found that feeding them 25-400hz gave me the best output, anything outside of that there was distortion or I had to detune my eq settings in my dsp to get a good sound out of them. Those bimmertech tweeters look exactly like the GRS tweeters I had originally tried in my system. I personally think they sounded just as bad as the stock speakers and I really had to detune them in my dsp to get a sound out of them that wasn't ear piercing. Which is why I recommend going with these tweeters: https://www.crutchfield.com/p_108R37...TX.html?tp=107

They will fill out the sound a whole lot more and sound way more natural. Those bimmertechs probably have the same 6db per octave high pass filter at 8,000hz. Those infinity tweeters will play all the way down to 2500hz before they hit their filter.

I am not an expert, but this is just my theory when it comes to these subs.

The stock subwoofers are actually "mid woofers", and the Logic 7 headunit has an EQ that starts at 100hz, and a good subwoofer is supposed to hit as low as 20hz. Later tonight I will also check the Bowers EQ in my X6M to see what is the lowest frequency available, but I suspect it is probably the same 100hz. So the stock subwoofers probably do not really hit frequencies below 100hz.

The interesting part, is when if I were to adjust bass or EQ setting with the Logic 7 or the Bowers subs, it adjust properly and you can immediately hear the difference with every notch of adjustment. With Bavsound subs, adjusting EQ settings does almost nothing - I could drop 100-200-300hz frequencies all the way down, and there is very little difference if any - no reduction of bass whatsoever. When I had the Bavsound subs installed, I used to adjust bass setting almost to the minimum, and even then there was an overwhelming presence of muddy, unbalanced bass. So I theorize that Bavsound boosted low bass frequencies at the expense of mid bass frequencies, since it is almost impossible to get both out of such shallow woofer.

Also, the Bavsound subs are "one size fits all" - they offer the same subs for every BMW model with every possible audio system. The Bowers subs are really an evolution of previous high end systems such as the Logic 7, and so they are better balanced to the system.

I wish I could also swap in the Bowers amp, since all it takes is digital signal through an optic cable, but it needs to be coded in and thats probably impossible to do due to the ECU differences.

[SlowX6M]

Originally Posted by RL18

Nice video! Maybe if I get a good deal I'll try out the underseats. Biggest issue with the underseats is feeding them the right power and sending them a frequency range that they play well. I'd be willing to bet the bavsounds are decent but your logic 7 system probably is sending it frequencies it can't play well. For example my grs underseat woofers had a frequency range of 25-2000hz, I found that feeding them 25-400hz gave me the best output, anything outside of that there was distortion or I had to detune my eq settings in my dsp to get a good sound out of them. Those bimmertech tweeters look exactly like the GRS tweeters I had originally tried in my system. I personally think they sounded just as bad as the stock speakers and I really had to detune them in my dsp to get a sound out of them that wasn't ear piercing. Which is why I recommend going with these tweeters: https://www.crutchfield.com/p_108R37...TX.html?tp=107

They will fill out the sound a whole lot more and sound way more natural. Those bimmertechs probably have the same 6db per octave high pass filter at 8,000hz. Those infinity tweeters will play all the way down to 2500hz before they hit their filter.

Interesting on the tweeters, their specs say 2,500-21,000 hz response. Do they come with their own filters?

[mitch808]

The new bavsound amp looks promising

[mitch808]

Also CDT is having a great sale till Dec 5th I think, for 50% off...

[RL18]

Originally Posted by SlowX6M

Interesting on the tweeters, their specs say 2,500-21,000 hz response. Do they come with their own filters?

Yes they do!

[RL18]

Originally Posted by SlowX6M

I am not an expert, but this is just my theory when it comes to these subs.

The stock subwoofers are actually "mid woofers", and the Logic 7 headunit has an EQ that starts at 100hz, and a good subwoofer is supposed to hit as low as 20hz. Later tonight I will also check the Bowers EQ in my X6M to see what is the lowest frequency available, but I suspect it is probably the same 100hz. So the stock subwoofers probably do not really hit frequencies below 100hz.

The interesting part, is when if I were to adjust bass or EQ setting with the Logic 7 or the Bowers subs, it adjust properly and you can immediately hear the difference with every notch of adjustment. With Bavsound subs, adjusting EQ settings does almost nothing - I could drop 100-200-300hz frequencies all the way down, and there is very little difference if any - no reduction of bass whatsoever. When I had the Bavsound subs installed, I used to adjust bass setting almost to the minimum, and even then there was an overwhelming presence of muddy, unbalanced bass. So I theorize that Bavsound boosted low bass frequencies at the expense of mid bass frequencies, since it is almost impossible to get both out of such shallow woofer.

Also, the Bavsound subs are "one size fits all" - they offer the same subs for every BMW model with every possible audio system. The Bowers subs are really an evolution of previous high end systems such as the Logic 7, and so they are better balanced to the system.

I wish I could also swap in the Bowers amp, since all it takes is digital signal through an optic cable, but it needs to be coded in and thats probably impossible to do due to the ECU differences.

Yessir you are correct. Those underseat woofers really are only meant to play the lower midrange, bass, and sub bass (which is about 25-400hz). They are by no means a subwoofer, but they can absolutely play those lower frequencies. They just won't have the same presence that a 12" subwoofer has. Another thing to consider is the factory ampliers have these underseat subs configured as "stereo" where as a subwoofer would be configured as "mono" so they will always sound a bit different. Btw, you shouldn't ever configure them as mono, they sound terrible.

I've never tried the bavsound speakers because I think they're over priced and not really any better than some of the cheaper options. But they should all be able to play down to around 20-40hz no problem. The issue comes when they try to play the higher frequencies with the low frequencies. That's why I cut my subwoofer off at 400hz so they won't play anything above that. That might be why you hear distortion. Of course Bavsound doesn't give you all the specs on their speakers so I really couldn't tell you why they sound the way they do.

I remember a thread somewhere here, maybe it's in the e90 forums that shows how each audio system has their base eq set up (not the eq you control), I'll have to check and see if I can find it... that could be another reason the bavsound sound much different than the others.

[SlowX6M]

Originally Posted by RL18

Yessir you are correct. Those underseat woofers really are only meant to play the lower midrange, bass, and sub bass (which is about 25-400hz). They are by no means a subwoofer, but they can absolutely play those lower frequencies. They just won't have the same presence that a 12" subwoofer has. Another thing to consider is the factory ampliers have these underseat subs configured as "stereo" where as a subwoofer would be configured as "mono" so they will always sound a bit different. Btw, you shouldn't ever configure them as mono, they sound terrible.

I've never tried the bavsound speakers because I think they're over priced and not really any better than some of the cheaper options. But they should all be able to play down to around 20-40hz no problem. The issue comes when they try to play the higher frequencies with the low frequencies. That's why I cut my subwoofer off at 400hz so they won't play anything above that. That might be why you hear distortion. Of course Bavsound doesn't give you all the specs on their speakers so I really couldn't tell you why they sound the way they do.

I remember a thread somewhere here, maybe it's in the e90 forums that shows how each audio system has their base eq set up (not the eq you control), I'll have to check and see if I can find it... that could be another reason they sound much different than the others.

See, the nice thing about B&W upgrade is you dont really need to fine tune anything, it is factory preset for optimal performance with the system on hand. If I was to get involved to fine tuning, I would just go with a custom built system, with proper amps, crossovers and enclosures.

[RL18]

Originally Posted by SlowX6M

See, the nice thing about B&W upgrade is you dont really need to fine tune anything, it is factory preset for optimal performance with the system on hand. If I was to get involved to fine tuning, I would just go with a custom built system, with proper amps, crossovers and enclosures.

I think that most of the issues with the logic 7 stem from the eq presets. The hifi audio system has the flattest eq presets (with eq settings untouched). But I'm sure that's why the B&W speakers work with the logic 7 system. Coding to hifi you might find that now the Bavsound speakers sound the best.

I wish I could show you what I mean though with the audiocontrol microphone I have to analyze the actual eq output of what your speakers are playing realtime. The eq settings are pretty worthless to have if the factory eq presets are not "flat" cause you may be boosting a signal that's already boosted. My system starts out with the factory signal from the front speakers (that's with eq settings untouched), picture below. Then I used the auto feature in my dsp to tune my eq to get a flat response from that. Then I use that audiocontrol microphone to show me if it's actually a flat response being produced so I can further tune to how I like it to sound.

[argento]

^ Is that output from the S677A amplifier (aka Top Hifi System Amp)? Any idea what the S752A amplifier (aka Individual Audio System) looks like?

SlowX6M GREAT Video! Thank you for taking the time to share. I've ordered B&W midranges and tweeters for the center dash and d-pillars to start...

[RL18]

Originally Posted by argento

^ Is that output from the S677A amplifier (aka Top Hifi System Amp)? Any idea what the S752A amplifier (aka Individual Audio System) looks like?

That is the front speaker signal from the base audio system. If you wanted to know the output signal from the individual system you could get this device: https://www.crutchfield.com/S-jVlolQ...SABEgKNOfD_BwE

And it'll show you exactly what the output eq of your system looks like realtime. It's what I used to tune my system.

[SlowX6M]

Originally Posted by RL18

I think that most of the issues with the logic 7 stem from the eq presets. The hifi audio system has the flattest eq presets (with eq settings untouched). But I'm sure that's why the B&W speakers work with the logic 7 system. Coding to hifi you might find that now the Bavsound speakers sound the best.

I wish I could show you what I mean though with the audiocontrol microphone I have to analyze the actual eq output of what your speakers are playing realtime. The eq settings are pretty worthless to have if the factory eq presets are not "flat" cause you may be boosting a signal that's already boosted. My system starts out with the factory signal from the front speakers (that's with eq settings untouched), picture below. Then I used the auto feature in my dsp to tune my eq to get a flat response from that. Then I use that audiocontrol microphone to show me if it's actually a flat response being produced so I can further tune to how I like it to sound.

Wow, fine tuning like this is waaaay above my level of expertise. You mentioned coding HiFi - can you elaborate on this?

[SlowX6M]

Originally Posted by argento

^ Is that output from the S677A amplifier (aka Top Hifi System Amp)? Any idea what the S752A amplifier (aka Individual Audio System) looks like?

SlowX6M GREAT Video! Thank you for taking the time to share. I've ordered B&W midranges and tweeters for the center dash and d-pillars to start...

From what I understand, the base has no amp, top hifi has an analog amp, and Logic 7, individual, B&O have digital amps. I held B&O and Logic 7 amps, and they look very similar (and feel very cheap). Aluminum heatsink body, very lightweight, which is usually indicative of cheap internals.

The new B&W amp has a fancy logo on it, but I'm sure its more or less the same internals. Optical input, fancier DSP with all kinds of "3d effects", built in crossovers, but the components that actually amplify the analog output are probably not the best.

[RL18]

Originally Posted by SlowX6M

Wow, fine tuning like this is waaaay above my level of expertise. You mentioned coding HiFi - can you elaborate on this?

I'm no expert on it either. Just learning since I ran into these issues upgrading my system.

This thread will explain things better. It's e90 but will apply to our e70s: https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=641323

[SlowX6M]

Originally Posted by RL18

I'm no expert on it either. Just learning since I ran into these issues upgrading my system.

This thread will explain things better. It's e90 but will apply to our e70s: https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=641323

I'm pretty happy with the system now, so I think I'll leave it alone. I may try the Infiniti tweeters since they handle more range and properly filtered. I do not hear much difference with the B&W diamond tweeter vs Bimmertech tweeter (so far I only installed one, in the center), but I think I may be compromising the B&W tweeter with the stock filter.

[RL18]

Originally Posted by SlowX6M

I'm pretty happy with the system now, so I think I'll leave it alone. I may try the Infiniti tweeters since they handle more range and properly filtered. I do not hear much difference with the B&W diamond tweeter vs Bimmertech tweeter (so far I only installed one, in the center), but I think I may be compromising the B&W tweeter with the stock filter.

Good idea it get expensive quick

Those infinity tweeters will sound great. They'll fit in the stock locations too with some silicone or something.

[argento]

Originally Posted by RL18

Good idea it get expensive quick

INDEED!

Since I have the S752A audio system, I was going to plug the diamond tweeters into the dixplexers...once I source them...not there yet as RL18 made abundantly clear above, lol.

[SlowX6M]

Originally Posted by RL18

Good idea it get expensive quick

LOL, tell me about it. There is a part of me that wants to try and source Rolls Royce Bespoke speakers, good thing google search doesn't turn out any pricing.

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/par...ck_Badge&mg=65