High End Subwoofer Installation

[bimmerace]

Has anyone attempted this? I'm about to install the following:

2x Alpine Type X Subs (Rated at 1000w RMS, 3000w Peak)
1x Orion XTR 2500.1Dz (Rated at 2500w RMS at 1ohms, proven to 7500w peak with a current draw of over 500 amps when pushed to its limit at .8 ohms)

Has anyone attempted this type of installations on an e70? I need to know a few things before proceeding, such as how many amps does the stock alternator provide, battery, and if electronics may be affected by this power hungry beast? Also installing a "4 Farat" Capacitor for "stability".

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Damn, that a serious system! Stock alternator is usually 220amps for most X5's but depends on year and
And submodel. What is yours?

[Colodano]

In my opinion, your largest concerns will be where to mount everything, and the heat dissipation from that amp.
I discussed doing a big sub install in my X5 with my buddy that has been a car audio installer for the last 15 years, and generally one of the best trusted guys in Western Canada, and he was of the opinion that with the proper wiring sizes, no capacitor is needed. I was planning to install a 3000W Class D amp that I have sitting around, for reference.Oh, and I have a spare, so I don't have too much extra space back by the battery.

[Deftronix]

Do you plan to wire the 4 ohm DVC's for 1 ohm? Not many amp PSUs are able to operate down to 1 ohm stable even though they rate them at that to claim higher power figures so would double check. Going for an SPL record in an X5 ?

You will definitely want to complement all that LF with some HF. Terrible part is we are stuck @ 4" component woofers without custom fabricating panels in the doors.

I run 2 x zapco X-150.6LX / Mobridge DA-1 / Mosconi 8to12 aerospace DSP to Morel components / Mosconi 8" midbass & JL 13 TW5. Did this in Nov 17 and haven't run into any electrical issues and do not run a cap and still on the original battery. I have the 4-zone climate control so have the 220A alternator.

Here are some pics of the install -

[bimmerace]

Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck

Damn, that a serious system! Stock alternator is usually 220amps for most X5's but depends on year and
And submodel. What is yours?

Thanks! Got myself a pretty good deal with the subs, I'm really excited to get those going! It's a 2013 with the 4 climate zones, so the 220 amp alt?

[bimmerace]

Originally Posted by Colodano

In my opinion, your largest concerns will be where to mount everything, and the heat dissipation from that amp.
I discussed doing a big sub install in my X5 with my buddy that has been a car audio installer for the last 15 years, and generally one of the best trusted guys in Western Canada, and he was of the opinion that with the proper wiring sizes, no capacitor is needed. I was planning to install a 3000W Class D amp that I have sitting around, for reference.Oh, and I have a spare, so I don't have too much extra space back by the battery.

I purchased a 0 gauge wiring kit with a 200 amp fuse, and have been using nothing but terminals and doing my best to do a clean install. This amp is rated at 2500 RMS, but the birth sheet it comes with says it was dyno'd at 2900, and the video that motivated me to purchase this amp was this one:

It's mostly the same amp but with some upgraded components, but that current draw is what worried me! It's nice that bimmers have the batteries and stock amps in the back, makes the installation so much easier! Specially if you buy a harness so you're not cutting any wires.

But if you say you have a 3kw system then I should be clear

[bimmerace]

Originally Posted by Deftronix

Do you plan to wire the 4 ohm DVC's for 1 ohm? Not many amp PSUs are able to operate down to 1 ohm stable even though they rate them at that to claim higher power figures so would double check. Going for an SPL record in an X5 ?

You will definitely want to complement all that LF with some HF. Terrible part is we are stuck @ 4" component woofers without custom fabricating panels in the doors.

I run 2 x zapco X-150.6LX / Mobridge DA-1 / Mosconi 8to12 aerospace DSP to Morel components / Mosconi 8" midbass & JL 13 TW5. Did this in Nov 17 and haven't run into any electrical issues and do not run a cap and still on the original battery. I have the 4-zone climate control so have the 220A alternator.

Here are some pics of the install -

That's a pretty sick installation!! All custom I bet? I was lucky when I found out it had the premium sound, so hopefully mids and highs can keep up a bit, I'll just make sure to adjust the bass accordingly as I don't discriminate frequencies In that video I posted, the guy was able to dyno it at .8 ohms, but he never tests them for reliability, just clipping and 1% THD (sometimes 10%). I guess I'll try it at 1 ohm first and if that doesn't work, I'll bump it up to 2 ohms (or bring down? hahah). I wouldn't mind a second battery and a diode with that extra battery compartment! But anyways, I hope statefarm covers fires

[Deftronix]

Originally Posted by bimmerace

That's a pretty sick installation!! All custom I bet? I was lucky when I found out it had the premium sound, so hopefully mids and highs can keep up a bit, I'll just make sure to adjust the bass accordingly as I don't discriminate frequencies In that video I posted, the guy was able to dyno it at .8 ohms, but he never tests them for reliability, just clipping and 1% THD (sometimes 10%). I guess I'll try it at 1 ohm first and if that doesn't work, I'll bump it up to 2 ohms (or bring down? hahah). I wouldn't mind a second battery and a diode with that extra battery compartment! But anyways, I hope statefarm covers fires

Thank you! Simplicity in Sound out of Milpitas, CA did most of the work and did an amazing job.

With the amount of air volume and power you plan to be pushing your biggest priority should be sound deadening. I didn't want to pay labor for that work so did it myself - laid 60+ sqft second skin and cut sound absorption and demin insulation for all the cavities, hatch & doors. Got lazy taking pics doing the doors. It really makes all the difference in the world though!

Sorry for the thrown together pics -

[bimmerace]

Originally Posted by Deftronix

Thank you! Simplicity in Sound out of Milpitas, CA did most of the work and did an amazing job.

With the amount of air volume and power you plan to be pushing your biggest priority should be sound deadening. I didn't want to pay labor for that work so did it myself - laid 60+ sqft second skin and cut sound absorption and demin insulation for all the cavities, hatch & doors. Got lazy taking pics doing the doors. It really makes all the difference in the world though!

Sorry for the thrown together pics -

It looks pretty sick! Where did you get the signal and remote from?

[Deftronix]

Much appreciated! The Mobridge DA1 grabs the signal from the MOST (fiber) ring since my X5 had top hifi from factory that had a MOST amp. You can also re-code to use analog then a generic line output converter but wont offer the same level of control (cic tone control, etc.) or sound quality.

I use Tidal->Android->Combox/BT->CIC->DA1->Mosconi as primary source and am very happy with the sound. Since the Mosconi also has a toslink input, I'm also playing around with other directly connect sources to see if I can get even better sound.

The remote/acc-on leads for the amps & mosconi are run off the DA1 12v remote output. The "turn on" signal is sent from CIC over MOST network. One of the advantages being the amps/dsp turn off when I click the CIC volume button.

[thehungrymonkey]

Don't wanna hijack this thread, but Deftronix maillbox is all full...popular! So Def, can you advise?

I have a 10 inch sub in the trunk and a decent amp for it. I am running 2 other amps for the 14 other speakers in the car..with the 8 inch underseat bridged.

1. I was gonna swap out the 8 stock with rockford fosgate 8 but you mention a mosconi 8"? is that underseat..if so how and what model?

2. I was thinking what is really missing are some 6 inch...but of course we have nowhere to add them so I was considering putting a pair in some kinda enclosure just behind the back seat in a fiberglass enclosure...kinda where the headrest is in the back...do you think it's a dumb idea?

Thanks!...love you setup...expensive hobby..doing the NBTevo seemed expensive at the time until I started adding audio hardware...eeek!

[Deftronix]

Originally Posted by thehungrymonkey

Don't wanna hijack this thread, but Deftronix maillbox is all full...popular! So Def, can you advise?

I have a 10 inch sub in the trunk and a decent amp for it. I am running 2 other amps for the 14 other speakers in the car..with the 8 inch underseat bridged.

1. I was gonna swap out the 8 stock with rockford fosgate 8 but you mention a mosconi 8"? is that underseat..if so how and what model?

We are very limited for options as far as what can fit below the seats unfortunately. They are Mosconi Gladen HG-201BMW-3. No modifications of the stock enclosures needed or need to bridge because of the low 3ohm impedance.

How do you plan on managing freqs? Crossovers (on amps or external) or DSP? Went for SQ as priority so planned DSP from the start so bought amps without crossover circuits and have a dedicated channel for every component.

Technically don't have any crossover hardware in the system at all and amp channels are only receiving the freqs that each component are using because of the dsp so absolute minimum overall distortion.

I ditched the center and d-pillar components so use 10 channels for the front/rear, underseat midbass & 2 channels bridged for the JL 13".

Originally Posted by thehungrymonkey

2. I was thinking what is really missing are some 6 inch...but of course we have nowhere to add them so I was considering putting a pair in some kinda enclosure just behind the back seat in a fiberglass enclosure...kinda where the headrest is in the back...do you think it's a dumb idea?

Thanks!...love you setup...expensive hobby..doing the NBTevo seemed expensive at the time until I started adding audio hardware...eeek!

Wouldn't add 6's unless you modify the door panels to fit them. I looked into this but was more than I wanted to spend and they wouldn't have ended up in optimal listening positions anyway. Another situation where we are very limited as far as quality 4" mids to choose from. Used Morel MT350 tweeters & MW4 mids in my system.

It's one of the best returns though! Completely worth it, enjoy it everyday. I run the Avin 10" unit. Let me know if you have anymore questions.

[thehungrymonkey]

I'm using the built in DSP of the 2 JL 800/8 vxi amps to manage the crossovers. Ran new wire for all the speakers except for the 8's which I plan on just using the existing wiring. Like you, I have currently ditched the center..but that is why I was considering adding 6's. Another amp to drive them and the center (400/4) would be pretty simple. Really appreciate your advice on the 6's...I'll put those on the back burner for sure. Using stock bmw speakers for now so I can appreciate any difference when I change them to Hertz mille tweeters and 3.5's.


The one part I like about the NBT is the wireless carplay. So much better than bluetooth and I kinda just like jumping in the car and the music starting without connecting.

Ok here is my sticking point....any knowledge here would be wonderful

I'm using an audison dmi to get the MOST signal to amp's....sounds good, but, the damn remote wire has no voltage. I ended up having to tap a fuse which I hate. I called Audison and they say my head unit must be sending a turn off signal. I think because it's Mobridge who manufactures it they have no idea. That makes no sense with it sending out a signal to the amps, it should be in turn sending out a remote on signal. How did you get your remote wire to work if you are using a DMI or did it just work outa box?

Thanks!

[bimmerace]

Originally Posted by Deftronix

Much appreciated! The Mobridge DA1 grabs the signal from the MOST (fiber) ring since my X5 had top hifi from factory that had a MOST amp. You can also re-code to use analog then a generic line output converter but wont offer the same level of control (cic tone control, etc.) or sound quality.

I use Tidal->Android->Combox/BT->CIC->DA1->Mosconi as primary source and am very happy with the sound. Since the Mosconi also has a toslink input, I'm also playing around with other directly connect sources to see if I can get even better sound.

The remote/acc-on leads for the amps & mosconi are run off the DA1 12v remote output. The "turn on" signal is sent from CIC over MOST network. One of the advantages being the amps/dsp turn off when I click the CIC volume button.

I went over to their website but they don't list their pricing, do you happen to know the prices for all 3 options and what the differences are? I see that their DA3 DSP offers the delay option which may fix my sub being a little behind, does that fix it for you? I actually sent the Orion back thinking it was a fault for the delay and the dirty bass and got me a Rockford Fosgate t1500 which is half as powerful but still moves the subs pretty good, but I've spent some time trying to improve the response and sharpness and only did by a bit, but the delay is still there of course. I got me the Technic hardness but it's built in voltage reducer doesn't sound very good and ended up getting the AudioControl LC2i, which improved things a bit but it's still not that good, and it's GTO function doesn't work at all, so I'm having to manually connect the remote wire into the positive terminal until I make a decision on things

[jpt99]

Were you able to find a solution? I'm having the same problem. The remote wire from the DA1 won't trigger my PP82DSP. I tapped into a 12v outlet in the trunk and it worked.

[RL18]

Originally Posted by Deftronix

Do you plan to wire the 4 ohm DVC's for 1 ohm? Not many amp PSUs are able to operate down to 1 ohm stable even though they rate them at that to claim higher power figures so would double check. Going for an SPL record in an X5 ?

You will definitely want to complement all that LF with some HF. Terrible part is we are stuck @ 4" component woofers without custom fabricating panels in the doors.

I run 2 x zapco X-150.6LX / Mobridge DA-1 / Mosconi 8to12 aerospace DSP to Morel components / Mosconi 8" midbass & JL 13 TW5. Did this in Nov 17 and haven't run into any electrical issues and do not run a cap and still on the original battery. I have the 4-zone climate control so have the 220A alternator.

Here are some pics of the install -

Beautiful work man. I hope to build up my system like yours. Currently running 700w for the 7 4" GRS speakers/Infinity reference tweeters. Then 105w each to 8" GRS underseats, and 600w to a kicker sub in the trunk all controlled by an audiocontrol DM-810. Like you I'm not using any capacitor and all seems good. Might add one for the sub and underseat amps though

After seeing your 13.5" TW5 sub gives me ideas on a new subwoofer upgrade or run two 10" TW3.

[RL18]

Originally Posted by jpt99

Were you able to find a solution? I'm having the same problem. The remote wire from the DA1 won't trigger my PP82DSP. I tapped into a 12v outlet in the trunk and it worked.

On my audiocontrol dsp it has a GTO function which turns the processor on as well as all my amps when it senses voltage from the input wires. The delay isn't really noticeable. If your amp doesn't have a feature like this try tapping into something that turns on with the ignition and turns off when the ignitions off.

[RL18]

Originally Posted by thehungrymonkey

I'm using the built in DSP of the 2 JL 800/8 vxi amps to manage the crossovers. Ran new wire for all the speakers except for the 8's which I plan on just using the existing wiring. Like you, I have currently ditched the center..but that is why I was considering adding 6's. Another amp to drive them and the center (400/4) would be pretty simple. Really appreciate your advice on the 6's...I'll put those on the back burner for sure. Using stock bmw speakers for now so I can appreciate any difference when I change them to Hertz mille tweeters and 3.5's.


The one part I like about the NBT is the wireless carplay. So much better than bluetooth and I kinda just like jumping in the car and the music starting without connecting.

Ok here is my sticking point....any knowledge here would be wonderful

I'm using an audison dmi to get the MOST signal to amp's....sounds good, but, the damn remote wire has no voltage. I ended up having to tap a fuse which I hate. I called Audison and they say my head unit must be sending a turn off signal. I think because it's Mobridge who manufactures it they have no idea. That makes no sense with it sending out a signal to the amps, it should be in turn sending out a remote on signal. How did you get your remote wire to work if you are using a DMI or did it just work outa box?

Thanks!

Run new speaker wire to those 8" underseats and you'll see a big improvement in sound. I ran 14 guage to them and 105w and have them crossed from 40hz-400hz. They are the star of my system. Very tight and accurate response. You don't need anything special for an 8" woofer they all practically perform the same minus the sws8, which plays lower, but you need to fill in the gap between the subwoofer and the 4" midranges and the stock 8" will do a great job, heck even my "base" audio 6.5" underseat impressed me when I ran 14gauge wire and 45w in preparation for the 8" GRS woofers.

I feel like the 4" midranges do great for a 4" speaker. They need a LPF though. I have mine crossed at 150hz and I'll be installing a 4500hz passive lpf this should allow me to to get more potential from them through tuning in the dsp. The real bottle neck is the tweeters. I want to say they have an 8000hz hpf at a 6db octave. They practically contribute nothing to the overall system, not to mention they can get harsh, and leave a huge gap for the 4" midrange to pick up. Once I installed the Infinity Reference tweeters it got a lot louder and clearer too, they go all the way down to 2500hz with their hpf.

Also how you tune your EQ will have a huge impact on how your speakers perform.