2013 X5M Engine Failure

[RSmokos]

Originally Posted by laselvasurf

Glad to hear it's all taken care of! Enjoy the X5M and new engine(after you finish the break in of course...).

My indie submitted the work to my warranty company on Thursday, so we'll see how they respond early next week. I'm tempted to contact my local dealer and see if they would be willing to do anything like what you had done, though I'm guessing they will just laugh at me...

Hopefully they pick up the tab after all that's the sole purpose of the warranty. I contemplated buying a warranty when I purchased the car but talked myself out of it with the the help of a few folks. The engines are just not supposed to have problems. I'd at least go talk to BMW and let them know what happened and what if anything they're willing to do. Keep in mind that the dealer is a franchise and he's not going to want to eat anything without the help of the mothership. But maybe he's willing to help. Doesn't hurt to ask.

[yco]

good luck with the new engine.. 10k expense to the car coming from no where is not pleasant but if you re not planning to sell your car it ll mean you ll have reliable engine for 2-3 years at least.. S63 actually is great engine but X5-X6 is too heavy for this engine.. it puts too much stress on the engine to carry the weight.. i guess newer generation S63's are better and you got one of them now.. good luck after break in..

[laselvasurf]

Update from the warranty company and my shop!

The warranty company found a used S63TU with 75K miles on it they want to have put in. The total cost out of my pocket for the job is going to be roughly $3K including replacing the rod bearings in the used engine, replacing the turbos and all gaskets/fluids. The warranty company is picking up $14.5K of the cost for the job. This is option 1. This could all be done in the next week.

Option 2... Remove engine block and send it to Troy Jeup or Ghassan Automotive for a rebuild. Once engine is returned, put it all back together and have a fully rebuilt engine. Total cost out of my pocket jumps up a bit to around $5K. This process will likely take well over a month.

I'll be honest, I'm torn. I love the idea of getting a fully rebuilt engine, but I'm a bit nervous about shipping the engine off to an unknown shop(both have some terrible reviews). I'm also missing driving the vehicle and my wife is getting sick of daily driving the M3(I'm borrowing her X5 35D) as it's just not that comfortable.

Anyone with experience with either ghassan or troy jeup have any additional information on how long the rebuild process takes?

Any thoughts on my options from people who have faced similar situations?

[greddy91]

Originally Posted by laselvasurf

Update from the warranty company and my shop!

The warranty company found a used S63TU with 75K miles on it they want to have put in. The total cost out of my pocket for the job is going to be roughly $3K including replacing the rod bearings in the used engine, replacing the turbos and all gaskets/fluids. The warranty company is picking up $14.5K of the cost for the job. This is option 1. This could all be done in the next week.

Option 2... Remove engine block and send it to Troy Jeup or Ghassan Automotive for a rebuild. Once engine is returned, put it all back together and have a fully rebuilt engine. Total cost out of my pocket jumps up a bit to around $5K. This process will likely take well over a month.

I'll be honest, I'm torn. I love the idea of getting a fully rebuilt engine, but I'm a bit nervous about shipping the engine off to an unknown shop(both have some terrible reviews). I'm also missing driving the vehicle and my wife is getting sick of daily driving the M3(I'm borrowing her X5 35D) as it's just not that comfortable.

Anyone with experience with either ghassan or troy jeup have any additional information on how long the rebuild process takes?

Any thoughts on my options from people who have faced similar situations?

Ghassan is my vote - put more in and resolve the clear OEM design deficiencies they elected to green light.

Made easier for me because we have a second and third car.

Made easier for you because all the parts you'd be using he has clear line of sight to now because we had to research them extensively to ensure their function on my non-TU build.

[m5james]

If you've got the option for the minor inconvenience, I'd absolutely go rebuilt considering your costs vs what it'd cost outta pocket knowing they're gonna fix the issues that caused you to be where you are in the first place. I'm still kicking myself for spending $2800 (including labor) to swap in a used N54 only to have it fail 10k later for another known N54 issue...vs the $3500 I could have paid for a rebuilt with fixed issues and not wasted a week. Swapping in a used one is putting off the inevitable the it seems to be plaguing many of the modern BMW engines.

[laselvasurf]

Originally Posted by greddy91

Ghassan is my vote - put more in and resolve the clear OEM design deficiencies they elected to green light.

Made easier for me because we have a second and third car.

Made easier for you because all the parts you'd be using he has clear line of sight to now because we had to research them extensively to ensure their function on my non-TU build.

I tend to lean this way as well... That said, the cost is not as big of an issue as the unknown. In all honesty, I see plenty of terrible reviews for Ghassan and am afraid this will turn into being months of waiting with no communication. I'm a bit nervous to ship the long block half way across the country and hope they follow through.

[laselvasurf]

Originally Posted by m5james

I'd absolutely go rebuilt considering you're costs vs what it'd cost outta pocket knowing they're gonna fix the issues that caused you to be where you are in the first place. I'm still kicking myself for spending $2800 (including labor) to swap in a used N54 only to have it fail 10k later for another known N54 issue...vs the $3500 I could have paid for a rebuilt with fixed issues and not wasted a week. Swapping in a used one is putting off the inevitable the it seems to be plaguing many of the modern BMW engines.

I'm leaning this way as well, but I have some concerns. I'm wondering what there is to be gained by rebuilding if I'm replacing so many of the components on the used engine that are the normal failure points(rod bearings, valve stem seals, turbos, gaskets, ect...).

[greddy91]

Originally Posted by laselvasurf

I tend to lean this way as well... That said, the cost is not as big of an issue as the unknown. In all honesty, I see plenty of terrible reviews for Ghassan and am afraid this will turn into being months of waiting with no communication. I'm a bit nervous to ship the long block half way across the country and hope they follow through.

Totally get the concern... Let me put it at ease. He was accessible to me via Facebook Messenger and text as often as I wanted updates and more times than not was providing them as he went along regardless of my inquiries.

We had picture swaps during the teardown and build process including the meticulous pieces of weighing rods, pistons, bearings, etc to make sure the build was as close to blueprint as possible.

I've lived with speed shop builds in other states (Texas) and had nothing but crappy tales to tell. This was different. It was overdelivery and so much so that it made and makes me an advocate for Gee continuously today.

Same offer goes to you and anyone else on the forum... if it starts going downhill I'll drive the hour and a half to Stillwater myself and nut punch him on your behalf. I just don't think he's ever going to need it.

[laselvasurf]

Originally Posted by greddy91

Totally get the concern... Let me put it at ease. He was accessible to me via Facebook Messenger and text as often as I wanted updates and more times than not was providing them as he went along regardless of my inquiries.

We had picture swaps during the teardown and build process including the meticulous pieces of weighing rods, pistons, bearings, etc to make sure the build was as close to blueprint as possible.

I've lived with speed shop builds in other states (Texas) and had nothing but crappy tales to tell. This was different. It was overdelivery and so much so that it made and makes me an advocate for Gee continuously today.

Same offer goes to you and anyone else on the forum... if it starts going downhill I'll drive the hour and a half to Stillwater myself and nut punch him on your behalf. I just don't think he's ever going to need it.

Thank you. This makes me feel much better about using Ghassan. Just to clarify, the engine he worked on for you was the S63? I've seen some reviews of him with the smaller engines, but no one has posted experience with S63s. Did you do any upgrades while doing the rebuild or just stick to stock? About how long did it take for the rebuild process?

[chris604]

Originally Posted by laselvasurf

Thank you. This makes me feel much better about using Ghassan. Just to clarify, the engine he worked on for you was the S63? I've seen some reviews of him with the smaller engines, but no one has posted experience with S63s. Did you do any upgrades while doing the rebuild or just stick to stock? About how long did it take for the rebuild process?

Had my 2010 x5m for 19 months now. Am I really that lucky?

[pdX5M]

Originally Posted by chris604

Had my 2010 x5m for 19 months now. Am I really that lucky?

I think that sadly a lot of these issues have to do with how the vehicles were treated before they were in our hands - if we bought used. Although there are some examples of F10 M5's grenading when the owner has followed a proper maintenance schedule. In that case it could come down to pushing the car before it hits operating temperature, improper oil viscosity, and apparently there were some S63's made during a few month span in 2012 that had a faulty oil pickup/pump. Supposedly a recall was issued to remedy.

I've tried to do as much reading on the subject as I could after hearing of the issues. Really all that we can do care for the cars as best we can unless you're willing to tear apart a motor that may be completely fine. Change the oil every 5-7k, check oil levels like a hawk, and follow proper warm up and cool down procedures.

[chris604]

Originally Posted by pdX5M

I think that sadly a lot of these issues have to do with how the vehicles were treated before they were in our hands - if we bought used. Although there are some examples of F10 M5's grenading when the owner has followed a proper maintenance schedule. In that case it could come down to pushing the car before it hits operating temperature, improper oil viscosity, and apparently there were some S63's made during a few month span in 2012 that had a faulty oil pickup/pump. Supposedly a recall was issued to remedy.

I've tried to do as much reading on the subject as I could after hearing of the issues. Really all that we can do care for the cars as best we can unless you're willing to tear apart a motor that may be completely fine. Change the oil every 5-7k, check oil levels like a hawk, and follow proper warm up and cool down procedures.

true that! I think I've been extra lucky, I've been racing mine extra hard most of the time, tires are actually coming apart at the edges from all the burnouts I've done, and it seems to be extra hard to do with a 4 wheel drive vehicle! Lots of fun with it though. I've changed oil twice, synthetic every time. I think maybe next time just conventional oil or a synthetic blend? Or just spend the extra $$? I'm still not convinced that synthetic actually helps.

[pdX5M]

Originally Posted by chris604

true that! I think I've been extra lucky, I've been racing mine extra hard most of the time, tires are actually coming apart at the edges from all the burnouts I've done, and it seems to be extra hard to do with a 4 wheel drive vehicle! Lots of fun with it though. I've changed oil twice, synthetic every time. I think maybe next time just conventional oil or a synthetic blend? Or just spend the extra $$? I'm still not convinced that synthetic actually helps.

Nothing but full synthetic - unless you want to add to this thread that your S63 grenaded too. If you're driving an X5 M the cost of synthetic oil should be the least of your worries. I use Liqui Moly Molygen 5w-40 with their Liqui Moly Ceratec additive. 40 is the maximum weight for this motor so don't go above that. Guys in middle east have tried 10w-60 and that went bad in a few thousand miles. Tolerances on this motor are too tight.

And they are M cars so they're meant to be driven hard not babied - just need to follow proper procedures.

[chris604]

Originally Posted by pdX5M

Nothing but full synthetic - unless you want to add to this thread that your S63 grenaded too. If you're driving an X5 M the cost of synthetic oil should be the least of your worries. I use Liqui Moly Molygen 5w-40 with their Liqui Moly Ceratec additive. 40 is the maximum weight for this motor so don't go above that. Guys in middle east have tried 10w-60 and that went bad in a few thousand miles. Tolerances on this motor are too tight.

And they are M cars so they're meant to be driven hard not babied - just need to follow proper procedures.

Ok, will do that. It also says on the dash that it needs an oil change every 20K km? that's like once a year or even longer. Seems too long.

[pdX5M]

Originally Posted by chris604

Ok, will do that. It also says on the dash that it needs an oil change every 20K km? that's like once a year or even longer. Seems too long.

5-7k mile MAX oil change interval. BMW maintenance schedule is not even close to what this vehicle/motor needs.

[Kraftwerk AG]

Here's the oil and thermostat that Troy Jeup recommends for ALL S63 engines. Anybody know what Ghassan Automotive recommends? A Blackstone oil analysis may be in order for me...

Disclaimer: 3 things people never agree on: religion, politics, and the brand/weight of motor oil to use.

[yco]

50 might be too thick for oil passages in S63.. 40 is more reasonable if not using 30 as BMW recommends..

[TwinSnailz]

Thicker oil does not help with heat. Thinner oil transfer heat better.

[pdX5M]

Originally Posted by yco

50 might be too thick for oil passages in S63.. 40 is more reasonable if not using 30 as BMW recommends..

Maybe he is recommending 50 weight so he gets more business lmao. I feel like 40 weight provides plenty of lubrication. And like I said supposedly someone in middle east that drifts their M5 went with 60 weight and that only lasted about 3k miles before failure.

I have been thinking about getting the colder thermostat....haven't looked into how involved of an install it is though.

[laselvasurf]

Another update...

I have been unable to connect with either Troy or Ghassan over the past few days so I've come up with an alternative. Here's what I came up with and my mechanic thought may be a good solution.

We will go ahead with the used engine with 75K miles and before putting it in, replace everything we can think that could fail. We aren't talking about a full ground up rebuild, but all the things that these engines are known for. The cost different out of pocket to send my blown engine to Ghassan and have them do the rebuild is nearly $3K. If I spend that $3k refurbishing the replacement engine(which has 25K less miles than my blown engine on it), I'll come away with a lower miles core and all possible failures fixed before the engine gets installed. Am I crazy? Is this doable?

The bigger basic things I thought we should replace on the used engine:
- Rod Bearings
- Valve Stem Gaskets
- Timing Chain

Here's where I would welcome ANY and ALL info/feedback from people familiar with the S63... What else should I replace? Are there any other major failure points in these S63s? Any input would be very much appreciated!

[Kraftwerk AG]

Interesting YouTube video of a teardown & rebuild of a S63 engine in 9 parts by Tasos Moschatos.

[Kraftwerk AG]

Originally Posted by laselvasurf

Another update...

I have been unable to connect with either Troy or Ghassan over the past few days so I've come up with an alternative. Here's what I came up with and my mechanic thought may be a good solution.

We will go ahead with the used engine with 75K miles and before putting it in, replace everything we can think that could fail. We aren't talking about a full ground up rebuild, but all the things that these engines are known for. The cost different out of pocket to send my blown engine to Ghassan and have them do the rebuild is nearly $3K. If I spend that $3k refurbishing the replacement engine(which has 25K less miles than my blown engine on it), I'll come away with a lower miles core and all possible failures fixed before the engine gets installed. Am I crazy? Is this doable?

The bigger basic things I thought we should replace on the used engine:
- Rod Bearings
- Valve Stem Gaskets
- Timing Chain

Here's where I would welcome ANY and ALL info/feedback from people familiar with the S63... What else should I replace? Are there any other major failure points in these S63s? Any input would be very much appreciated!

laselvasurf have you tried getting a 2nd opinion from Carbahn Autoworks in San Jose? They have a shop in Mountain View also. 20% off labor $4k+ on your 1st visit. They're both owned by Steve Dinan btw.