Considering downsizing to high mileage E70/71

[Logical]

So I'm at a point in life where I need to spend less on fancy cars...and in order to continue my love affair with the M division I have found a dealership willing to take on my F86 debt and send me on my way with a gorgeous 2012 white on red E71, and much lower payments. The caveat to this is that the car has high miles (120k) but will come with pages of one ownership meticulous maintenance, Dinan exhaust, and a extensive aftermarket warranty. The other option is white on black lowered 2010 E70 with less miles (90k) but no maintenance history. So my question is how reliable are the higher mileage E70/71s?? Does anyone have over 100k miles on this forum?

[do_0b]

got a 2010 X6 M with 163,000 km which is about (101k miles) and so far so good. Besides reg maintenance, nothing major yet *knock on wood* next big maintenance would be brakes for me and thinking about doing a fluid flush. Im happy with this car and hopefully will last me another 4 years or so until the F86 gets a bit cheaper

[mrsoandso]

Originally Posted by do_0b

got a 2010 X6 M with 163,000 km which is about (101k miles) and so far so good. Besides reg maintenance, nothing major yet *knock on wood* next big maintenance would be brakes for me and thinking about doing a fluid flush. Im happy with this car and hopefully will last me another 4 years or so until the F86 gets a bit cheaper

Has it really been that trouble free?

I just bought an '11 X6M and I'm still nervous with it, because I know the 'M' tax on parts can be horrendous, even though I have a warranty that covers $5000 in repairs per claim.

[do_0b]

Originally Posted by mrsoandso

Has it really been that trouble free?

I just bought an '11 X6M and I'm still nervous with it, because I know the 'M' tax on parts can be horrendous, even though I have a warranty that covers $5000 in repairs per claim.

Yeah the previous owner was a gear head. Took good care of the truck. The only thing I spent on was new battery and fuel pump sensor. Other than that gas which could be $$$ depending how often and how you drive.

[boneca]

I have 99.5k miles on my 2013 X5M, bought it 3 years ago with 35k miles, Its been good to me, overall, I had some issues I had to address but those were not major and all related to careless first owner.
I bought BMW warranty couple of years ago when first one was about to run out. As you can see by my miles this warranty is about to expire and I'm not planning to buy another one right away. I was lucky enough not needing to use the warranty and I'm keeping my fingers crossed for at least 3 more years!

Good luck with your decision!

p.s. just curious what were u payments on '14 f86?

[Bilbofraggins]

Originally Posted by boneca

I have 99.5k miles on my 2013 X5M, bought it 3 years ago with 35k miles, Its been good to me, overall, I had some issues I had to address but those were not major and all related to careless first owner.
I bought BMW warranty couple of years ago when first one was about to run out. As you can see by my miles this warranty is about to expire and I'm not planning to buy another one right away. I was lucky enough not needing to use the warranty and I'm keeping my fingers crossed for at least 3 more years!

Good luck with your decision!

p.s. just curious what were u payments on '14 f86?

Do you live in your vehicle...thats a fair few miles in 3 years....How much did you pay for the extended warranty from BMW...mine was included in my deal...(4 years normal with maint + 2 certified..)...almost done....

[boneca]

Originally Posted by Bilbofraggins

Do you live in your vehicle...

pretty much and I see u jealous

I bought BMW extended warranty (major components) for $5k, that was about 6 month after I bought the car, I still had active warranty when I bought it, so no deal!

[Bilbofraggins]

I guess at the end of the day....they factored the certified warranty into my purchase price....but considering they dropped nearly 10K from when they first offered my vehicle...till I jumped...I was fine with what I paid. I have my lights replaced during this extended portion of the warranty but that's it...

[Mightymaus]

When I bought the car I realized I'm going to have to put some money into it. it's pretty much in mint condition. I took mine to an Indie mechanic near where I live. Google had a high reputation for them, and I'm glad I found them. I had an odd smell in the car and found out the hose clamps were allowing the antifreeze to leak on the motor. the hose clamps are pretty much crap but they will stay on if it's leaking you can get the crimp tool and re-crimp them tight and it will stop leaking or replace them with screw type. if you take off the beauty cover of your motor you'll see the little hoses there that may or may not be leaking. I replaced some of the clamps and re- crimped some of the other ones. I just had my spark plugs replaced at the shop and 2 fuel injectors were found bad probably because of junk gas the previous owner may have been using. all in all it was $2,500. but it runs like a Swiss watch again. I've read that the n63 is a solid motor and the transmission is made by ZF. I would recommend changing the crankcase vent hose that joins both crankcase hoses. it gets brittle because of the heat, don't touch it until you get the new one. It may break on you as it did me. it takes 10w60 oil, pay attention to what BMW recommends. The non- M series motors take 5w30. Use only BMW rated fluids.

[Bilbofraggins]

I have a 2013 X6M in Canada... since day one the dealer has used 5W30, that’s also what the manual notes... and a plate under the hood. I used it for supplemental oil changes and still use it although I switched to LL04 rated oil.

No 10W60 mentioned anywhere....as for fluids in general..Quality equivalent specs fluids are the way I’m going....although I sprang for ZF LifeGuard 6.... I wish I had saved the beer money and used one of a few quality alternatives at 1/3 the cost or cheaper.

We have an 2008 E90 full of redline product and doing great...and when my wife’s 2015 X3 is up... It will get quality matching spec but non BMW branded fluid.

Each to their own...

[Mightymaus]

Originally Posted by Bilbofraggins

I have a 2013 X6M in Canada... since day one the dealer has used 5W30, that’s also what the manual notes... and a plate under the hood. I used it for supplemental oil changes and still use it although I switched to LL04 rated oil.

I live in North Carolina, it's cold up there in Canada needless to say, using 5 W 30 oil is probably a good idea. 10 W 60 is of course thicker. many people on the post use 5 W 30 for their M series. I see arguments both ways and I've posted about them. The M series Motors are built in a different plant then the standard Motors. They're meticulously built alongside the Rolls Royce Motors. that's why we spend more for them then the base models.

I am glad to hear you use the ZF transmission fluid. Too many times people try to save money by using less expensive equipment and end up spending more money in the end for repair. it's simple pay now or pay later policy.

to each his own as you mentioned...

[Naz24]

Originally Posted by Mightymaus

When I bought the car I realized I'm going to have to put some money into it. it's pretty much in mint condition. I took mine to an Indie mechanic near where I live. Google had a high reputation for them, and I'm glad I found them. I had an odd smell in the car and found out the hose clamps were allowing the antifreeze to leak on the motor. the hose clamps are pretty much crap but they will stay on if it's leaking you can get the crimp tool and re-crimp them tight and it will stop leaking or replace them with screw type. if you take off the beauty cover of your motor you'll see the little hoses there that may or may not be leaking. I replaced some of the clamps and re- crimped some of the other ones. I just had my spark plugs replaced at the shop and 2 fuel injectors were found bad probably because of junk gas the previous owner may have been using. all in all it was $2,500. but it runs like a Swiss watch again. I've read that the n63 is a solid motor and the transmission is made by ZF. I would recommend changing the crankcase vent hose that joins both crankcase hoses. it gets brittle because of the heat, don't touch it until you get the new one. It may break on you as it did me. it takes 10w60 oil, pay attention to what BMW recommends. The non- M series motors take 5w30. Use only BMW rated fluids.

Can't believe you had fuel injectors done at an indy. This was a recall item and BMW would've replaced them for free....

[Mightymaus]

Originally Posted by Naz24

Can't believe you had fuel injectors done at an indy. This was a recall item and BMW would've replaced them for free....

I was unaware of this, well there's 6 more. I'll remember this. thanks

PS:
I have zero open recalls on her, it may have been done by the previous owner.

[Naz24]

Originally Posted by Mightymaus

I was unaware of this, well there's 6 more. I'll remember this. thanks

PS:
I have zero open recalls on her, it may have been done by the previous owner.

It's not shown as an open recall. It's a covered repair. You have to actually request it— I would go if I were you.

[yco]

my car has 177k km on odometer.. if its well maintained yes if not its a surprise..
basically as you know things are falling apart by time.. i donno what sort of calculations you made but you ll burn %80 more fuel on 4.4L V8 for sure.. and you ll feel like your driving a whale for sometime after M4..

[Bilbofraggins]

Some good info on Tranny fluid....https://www.audiworld.com/forums/a8-...truth-2882676/

Worth the read...

Shell ATF M-1375.4 is the Spec for our ZF 6 speed transmissions.

"There's always been a lot of confusion and misinformation posted about this so I thought I'd contribute some new information I've recently found out on the topic. It's a long post but hopefully worth the read.

Setting the scene

The 6-speed 09E transmission as used in all quattro D3 A8's is actually a ZF 6HP26 (6HP19 for smaller engine versions) unit. The quattro drivetrain parts (TORSEN center diff, drive shafts and front diff) are all bolt on accessories to this core transmission. The ZF 6HP range of transmissions is used by many OEM's ranging from Rolls-Royce to Hyundai, and is on the whole a very strong and reliable unit.

The official line from both ZF and Audi (and all other OEM's) is that the units are maintenance free and have a lifetime ATF fill. What "lifetime" actually means has never been quantified. However problems with the transmission developing a "hoot" noise when changing between gears 3-4 has become a common issue for many owners. The official service remedy from all OEM's affected has been to change the transmission fluid. The details of the Audi specific TSB for this can be found here, but it's essentially still just a fluid change rolled in with a software update that later cars had from the factory anyway.

Because this was a widespread issue, ZF changed their position on the lifetime fill specification for the 6HP. They now somewhat sneakily advise that "depending on driving style", the transmission fluid should be replaced every 8 years or 80k miles to maintain optimum performance. See here for the the official ZF Service Bulletin on the matter.

Despite this, Audi has not changed their position on the "lifetime" ATF. Therefore it would seem that Audi regard 8yrs/80k miles as beyond "lifetime".

Transmission Fluid / ATF Specs

So that brings us to the topic of ATF for the 6HP.

The official line from ZF is that only their "Lifeguard " branded ATF, or vehicle OEM equivalents can be used (e.g. VW G055 005), with a stern warning that other fluids will damage the transmission. The ZF specification group that these ATFs come under is ZF TE-ML 11.

However the Lifeguard 6 ATF variant (aka LF6, VW G055 005) used in most applications of the 6HP is unreasonably expensive. So over the years it's become clear that the base quality/spec standard is Shell ATF M-1375.4, and below are some of the numerous cheaper equivalent options that are available now:

Redline D6 ATF
Liqui Moly Top Tec 1800
Shell Spirax S4 ATF MSP
Mercon SP
Ardeca Matic +Z6
Motul ATF VI
Ravenol ATF 6HP
Anything else that meets the Shell ATF M-1375.4 specs

Some models specify a different fluid, namely the W12, and the 6 cyl models using the 6HP19 lower torque capacity version. Initially this was Lifeguard 6+ (VW G055162A2) which was blue in colour and has been discontinued. It was rebranded to coincide with the new range of 8-speed 8HP transmissions as Lifeguard 8 (VW G060162A2) and the colour changed to green. It's the same stuff though, just dyed green instead.

The base specification for this is Shell ATF M-L12108 So suitable equivalents to VW G055162A2, VW G060162A2, LF8 are:
Ravenol ATF 8HP
Ardeca Matic 8HP
Redline D6 ATF
Not as many obvious ones as it's a newer product, but anything that meets Shell M-L12108 is the key

So far I have not shared any new information, or knowledge that's not readily available. But I recently found out some very interesting new info on the topic.

You're probably thinking who the heck are Ardeca? Well they are a Lube company from Belgium, and they had a stand at the recent Automechanika 2015 tradeshow in Chicago that I attended. As did ZF.

ZF were exhibiting their ATF service kits and when I inquired further, the reps were towing the official "depending on driving style" line about ATF changes. However when I pressed them on it, they tacitly admitted that 80k miles is when you should do an ATF change on the 6HP, regardless. They would not however be drawn on any equivalents to LF6, stating that only LF6 (or LF8 depending on application) has the correct composition and additive packs to not damage the transmission. There are stern warnings stating this both in ZF literature and also on the labels of LF6 bottles.

So moving on, I got talking to the guys on the Ardeca Lubricants stand as they had a product (MATIC +Z6) that specifically stated was for the ZF 6HP. As it turned out I was talking to the head of Ardeca and I asked him how he can be selling an ATF labelled as specifically for the the ZF 6HP, when ZF, just 3 stands away said there are no LF6 equivalents, and anything else will cause damage.

He laughed and said it was simply nonsense and scaremongering by ZF. He went on to confirm that the base specification is Shell M-1375.4, and that until a few years ago, ZF held the licence on the additive pack for M-1375.4. Consequently they licensed it out to ATF makers for an extortionate sum. As it happens, most OEM specific ATF (e.g. VW G055 005) for the 6HP is not repackaged Lifeguard 6, rather an equivalent made to the same M-1375.4 specs. He said that his company itself had to pay this licence to fee to ZF for the additive pack for many years, which in turn made their ZF LF6 equivalent very expensive back in the day.

He then went on to explain that the ZF licence for the Shell M-1375.4 additive pack is no longer valid and the "recipe" is now freely available on the open market. Hence why there are now numerous ATF's out there that claim to be LF6 equivalents but for a fraction of the price. And here's the kicker, he said that it can be dyed any color you like, green, blue, red, whatever...

So there you have it. Draw your own conclusions, but for me the overwhelming evidence points me well away from the belief that LF6 is anything special, or worth paying any sort of premium for.

Happy DIY ATF changes for less than 75 bucks!

ETA: I've since done a fluid and filter change using Redline D6 and it improved things considerably. https://www.audiworld.com/forums/a8-...ected-2883008/"

[peter2772000]

Thanks for this post, fellow Canadian! Very interesting indeed.

[Bilbofraggins]

Originally Posted by peter2772000

Thanks for this post, fellow Canadian! Very interesting indeed.

I think the only thing missing is that Maple Syrup is also an option...

[Mightymaus]

The X6 - 4.4 N63 5-30w oil required
Whereas the M version has the S63. 10-60 oil required.

Don't quote me on this, I'm still confused.

[Bilbofraggins]

10/60 is not the case in E71 X6M’s sold in Canada - Most definitely 5/30..and that’s reflected by the manual... and as filled by BMW during service work.