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      03-15-2018, 11:29 AM   #45
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Never understood the draw of the front-wheel-drive?
Having owned a number of all three formats, a well engineered, communicative fwd car be more fun than a vague, ham fisted rwd car. Awd is honestly hard to enjoy, it just feels too clinical.

But a lot of it comes down to what's actually available. I've got a three year old, so I want a five door. And it's got to be a manual. Those two choices just killed any rwd car in the US for me. I'd love an M140i, an M2 five door or an RS3 hatch with a manual. But I can't have any of those.

But given a choice every weekend day to drive the wife's 3er or my GTI, I've rarely driven the BMW. A little part of me misses my old Mazda 3 wagon because it had beautiful lift throttle oversteer, which the GTI doesn't exhibit nearly as well, but the motor sucked in the Mazda.
If you are comparing a GTI to say and old school Mustang... then I agree 300%, its tighter and feels better. However if you compare it to most modern rwd cars, its genuinely no comparison.
What are you offering as comparison? It's a better chassis than the GT86. That's sort of the end of what's comparable in the price range. I need to carry a kid, so the ND Miata is out, but also not really a better chassis than the MQB. It's still pretty flexy and would need a lot of suspension work to get rid of the stupid amounts of lean Mazda built in.

The 230i is not enjoyable, one wheel drive, heavy and actually exhibits more understeer than the GTI, especially at lower speeds. Sure it has the ability to create power on oversteer, but the chassis understeers earlier and harder than the GTI.

You mentioned the R, but I found it actually understeers more than the GTI. A little more weight on the front axle and no mechanical LSD combined with a Haldex setup that's still predominantly fwd doesn't help as much as one might think. I swear they also have softer shocks and springs, but maybe it's just the lazy DCC.

So again, for under $45k, what rwd chassis is there that's worlds better than the GTI? The only thing I've considered that's outside of the price bracket is a GT350, and possibly the M2 Competition, but I really prefer having rear doors and a hatch. And we have an F30 LCI, it's definitely not that.
Base M240i for 45k comes to mind but can be purchased cheaper with negotiations... please dont compre these two cars.
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      03-15-2018, 11:33 AM   #46
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Sure, I won't. As I didn't when I bought one of the two. I owned a 135i for four years.
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      03-15-2018, 12:22 PM   #47
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Wanna know why the miata is one of the most popular sports cars in existance?
Miata still needs more power IMO
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      03-15-2018, 01:26 PM   #48
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Wanna know why the miata is one of the most popular sports cars in existance?
Miata still needs more power IMO
Rumor that it goes to 184 this year. Still not exactly scorching.
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      03-16-2018, 11:18 AM   #49
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I traded in my C2S last week. Ended up getting a 2015 GTI SE and $$. I have always been big fan of the GTI. My family has always been a VW fam.(GTI, Scirocco, Golfs, etc..). I absolutely LOVE this car. It's loaded out with nice options and it's so easy to drive.

I put on new rubber and bot an AP and just flashed it. Man, does it make a difference. Tint this weekend and Short shifter. I am looking forward to having this for a few years. I still have my 335 and the plan is to buy a 997 TT within a year or two and sell/trade in the GTI but...I think I may have to keep it!

Anyway, a lot of car for the $$.
Which stage for your flash? Might want to plan on a new clutch, as well. The stocker is pretty easily overwhelmed - I had a Stage 1+ Unitronic tune on both my GTI and Golf R....
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      03-16-2018, 11:52 AM   #50
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Rumor that it goes to 184 this year. Still not exactly scorching.
But @30HP in a 2,300-pound car is going to make a substantial difference. Rumor is if the bump is due to SkyActiv-X (which Mazda's denied but almost certainly accounts for the jump since the SA-G motor simply can't make that kind of power), the motor will also rev higher.

Either way, it'll be tasty.
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      03-16-2018, 11:59 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Rumor that it goes to 184 this year. Still not exactly scorching.
But @30HP in a 2,300-pound car is going to make a substantial difference. Rumor is if the bump is due to SkyActiv-X (which Mazda's denied but almost certainly accounts for the jump since the SA-G motor simply can't make that kind of power), the motor will also rev higher.

Either way, it'll be tasty.
I agree, and actually like the ND in its current form. But most non Miata people won't be happy until it's into the single digit pound to hp range.
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      03-16-2018, 12:12 PM   #52
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I agree, and actually like the ND in its current form. But most non Miata people won't be happy until it's into the single digit pound to hp range.
Which would turn it into a budget Lotus without the magic of Lotus' wild card: suspension. If ya wanna Lotus, buy a Lotus, ya know? ...

To put anything above 200hp in that car would require a near complete re-do of everything but the chassis with upgraded, more expensive hardware. Mazda isn't going to do that for two (and maybe three) reasons:
- It would obliterate the car's price- and weight-anchored niche
- It would restrict the relatively affordable aftermarket that Zoom Zoom knows is as much of the car's allure as the car itself (One only needs to look at the GT86 platform for verification of that effect.)
- (Theoretical: The 'maybe') It would endanger the niche of the rumored RX-8 replacement

I think Mazda's readying us for something fairly big in 2020, in addition to an MX-5 refresh. Just a feeling I've got ...
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      03-17-2018, 09:44 PM   #53
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      03-18-2018, 04:27 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by hooligan_clt View Post
Which stage for your flash? Might want to plan on a new clutch, as well. The stocker is pretty easily overwhelmed - I had a Stage 1+ Unitronic tune on both my GTI and Golf R....
Ha! Funny you say that..the car is going to the shop on Wed. for a Stage 2 South Bend Daily set up. Clutch slipped on the MAPerformance Map and the stage 1 Cobb.

I added the rear hatch pop up kit and will code it with the OBDeleven I am waiting for. The car is A LOT of fun. Not quite as quick as my 335 but its a different beast.
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      03-23-2018, 06:22 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Thxrick View Post
Ha! Funny you say that..the car is going to the shop on Wed. for a Stage 2 South Bend Daily set up. Clutch slipped on the MAPerformance Map and the stage 1 Cobb.

I added the rear hatch pop up kit and will code it with the OBDeleven I am waiting for. The car is A LOT of fun. Not quite as quick as my 335 but its a different beast.
I just tuned back in your thread (pun intended). U modded it already and already clutch wow. Isnít it like 1 month lol
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      03-23-2018, 08:34 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Viffermike View Post
Which would turn it into a budget Lotus without the magic of Lotus' wild card: suspension. If ya wanna Lotus, buy a Lotus, ya know? ...

To put anything above 200hp in that car would require a near complete re-do of everything but the chassis with upgraded, more expensive hardware. Mazda isn't going to do that for two (and maybe three) reasons:
- It would obliterate the car's price- and weight-anchored niche
- It would restrict the relatively affordable aftermarket that Zoom Zoom knows is as much of the car's allure as the car itself (One only needs to look at the GT86 platform for verification of that effect.)
- (Theoretical: The 'maybe') It would endanger the niche of the rumored RX-8 replacement

I think Mazda's readying us for something fairly big in 2020, in addition to an MX-5 refresh. Just a feeling I've got ...
If the Exige prices didn't skyrocket, I would have bought one. My Miata only puts down 160 WHP, but still a ton of fun. Blower whine FTW. I'm a gear head so I always want more power. I want a V8 Miata
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      03-23-2018, 09:24 AM   #57
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I just tuned back in your thread (pun intended). U modded it already and already clutch wow. Isnít it like 1 month lol
Stock clutch is a known weakness. If you plan on modding, then a clutch is advised. I did the same right when I did my LSD. It only added about 10 minutes of labor since they had the trans out anyway.

I'll be adding an IS38 with DP and IC this spring. Should be good for about 390 HP and 400 TQ. in a package that weighs around 2,950 lbs.
I'm Stage 1 currently and the car really scoots. It's a big time hit in the mid-range, but due to the smaller stock turbo (IS20) it runs out of steam at the top end. With the larger turbo, it'll pull harder at the top end and soften the mid-range punch a bit. Should be good for low to mid 12's.
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      03-23-2018, 07:56 PM   #58
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I just tuned back in your thread (pun intended). U modded it already and already clutch wow. Isnít it like 1 month lol
Ha. Yeah...like 1 month. The stocker was smoked. The problem is the NEW clutch is so hard to press its like leg presses. Gotta break it then tune. SB good.
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      03-23-2018, 08:10 PM   #59
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I just tuned back in your thread (pun intended). U modded it already and already clutch wow. Isn’t it like 1 month lol
Ha. Yeah...like 1 month. The stocker was smoked. The problem is the NEW clutch is so hard to press its like leg presses. Gotta break it then tune. SB good.
The Daily (with the single mass flywheel) will break in and not be noticeably heavier than stock. Or at least not wildly heavier. It does feel more like how a sporty clutch should feel, at least to my foot.
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      03-24-2018, 07:45 AM   #60
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I was surprised on the clutch because when the mkvii came out I thought people were moving to stage 2+ without a clutch. I know this was an issue on the mkvi. I lucked out and didn’t need a clutch.


But it is exciting. Value for horsepower VW
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      03-24-2018, 11:20 AM   #61
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I'm still breaking in the clutch but will flash to the MAPerformance map. It will be a beast.
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      03-29-2018, 11:58 AM   #62
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What are you offering as comparison? It's a better chassis than the GT86. That's sort of the end of what's comparable in the price range. I need to carry a kid, so the ND Miata is out, but also not really a better chassis than the MQB. It's still pretty flexy and would need a lot of suspension work to get rid of the stupid amounts of lean Mazda built in.

The 230i is not enjoyable, one wheel drive, heavy and actually exhibits more understeer than the GTI, especially at lower speeds. Sure it has the ability to create power on oversteer, but the chassis understeers earlier and harder than the GTI.

You mentioned the R, but I found it actually understeers more than the GTI. A little more weight on the front axle and no mechanical LSD combined with a Haldex setup that's still predominantly fwd doesn't help as much as one might think. I swear they also have softer shocks and springs, but maybe it's just the lazy DCC.

So again, for under $45k, what rwd chassis is there that's worlds better than the GTI? The only thing I've considered that's outside of the price bracket is a GT350, and possibly the M2 Competition, but I really prefer having rear doors and a hatch. And we have an F30 LCI, it's definitely not that.
You sure that the R was in the correct mode? I found that it has a stiffer suspension than the GTI. Anyhow for 45k the answer is easily the Camaro SS 1Le- beat the ferrari 458, last generation R8 V10,GT4 and killed the M2 on track but it isn't the most practical car. The GTI is great in that it offers a good blend of performance,refinement and practicality for an affordable price but there are better options if your #1 priority is on-track performance.

Last edited by Towerworld; 03-29-2018 at 12:09 PM.
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