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      07-11-2019, 11:51 PM   #617
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Haven't seen much addressing an M2GC?? how about an M2GCCS? yes please! Although full disclosure I'd probably get the M3 for more useable space at a similar price.....M2GCCP would be pretty fun tho if priced definitely below M3CP
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      07-12-2019, 12:32 AM   #618
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FWD...not even once.

I was hoping for a modern replacement for the 3-series as that car has become too large and numb. I'm sure this will be more fun than the A3 and A-class/CLA, but FWD simply cannot replicate the magic of the E36, E46, and E90.
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      07-12-2019, 12:36 AM   #619
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seis-speed View Post
I don't understand BMW's direction?

They were the ultimate driving machine, now the new 1 series and 2 series are basically Audi's? I rented a 1series in Europe RWD/6MT/cloth-seats and it was a riot of a car, so much fun to drive.

I see the 2 series GC with RWD and a stick as the BMW I grew up with, would that not sell?

The 2 series as a wagon with RWD/Xdrive and a stick would be a great car IMO.
Would a sporty wagon not sell? Maybe people are buying SUV's because there is no decent alternatives. I love hot hatches, but they are limited by space 2 series would be an ideal size in this segment.
Would an M2GC in sedan or wagon not be a great selling car?
Seems like the perfect spec to me?

If I could make my perfect BMW it would probably be a M2GC wagon in 6MT/Xdrive for winter use and RWD for warmer climates, am I the only one?
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      07-12-2019, 12:57 AM   #620
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CP911 View Post
Thought this was supposed to be a lift-back with a hatch like the 4GC, no?
Yeah this is what I was referring to. I hope they make this a lift-back because, if not, the 4GC is the last hope for that since the 8GC has a normal trunk.

A total miss without in my opinion, as the lift-back is one of my favorite features of the 4GC.
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      07-12-2019, 01:13 AM   #621
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Some people want a vehicle with a shorter wheelbase even if the weight is the same at the 3 Series. It changes the driving dynamics of the car. Not everyone wants a boat.
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      07-12-2019, 01:15 AM   #622
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
FWD...not even once.

I was hoping for a modern replacement for the 3-series as that car has become too large and numb. I'm sure this will be more fun than the A3 and A-class/CLA, but FWD simply cannot replicate the magic of the E36, E46, and E90.
Ditto. FWD is a huge huge disappointment. The 3 is now too big. My first impression was a true successor to the 3 series but this isn't it.
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      07-12-2019, 02:25 AM   #623
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CP911 View Post
Thought this was supposed to be a lift-back with a hatch like the 4GC, no?
That's would make it far more useful actually.

I hope you're correct.
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      07-12-2019, 02:28 AM   #624
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Quote:
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Ditto. FWD is a huge huge disappointment. The 3 is now too big. My first impression was a true successor to the 3 series but this isn't it.
It makes sense from a business perspective as competitors are FWD. But it's just another example of BMW selling out on us enthusiasts.
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      07-12-2019, 03:31 AM   #625
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
It makes sense from a business perspective as competitors are FWD. But it's just another example of BMW selling out on us enthusiasts.
If BMW takes this platform Electric it can be RWD or AWD.
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      07-12-2019, 03:56 AM   #626
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
If BMW takes this platform Electric it can be RWD or AWD.
EV's with all the low end torque makes sense to be RWD. They already have a RWD 2 Series. Why couldn't they just carry this onto the GC? I hope this doesn't mean the next 2 Series Coupe will be FWD as well.
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      07-12-2019, 04:06 AM   #627
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I like the new camouflage stickers they applied!
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      07-12-2019, 07:01 AM   #628
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
That's would make it far more useful actually.

I hope you're correct.
I hope he is as well. xdrive, 300hp, liftback, slotted between the size of the e46 and e90. I'm sold
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      07-12-2019, 07:54 AM   #629
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
EV's with all the low end torque makes sense to be RWD. They already have a RWD 2 Series. Why couldn't they just carry this onto the GC? I hope this doesn't mean the next 2 Series Coupe will be FWD as well.
The next 2 Series Coupe will be RWD.

Maybe look at it the other way around: the M2 might be the only reason the next 2 Series Coupe will still be RWD and not FWD as well, so they can keep making the M2.

And, for a coupe, people care much less about rear-seat passenger space. If BMW introduced a RWD 2GC with absolutely ridiculous rear-seat space, people would be just as grumpy. They just can't win.

I understand that this sucks for all the small sedan/lift-back lovers in the US, but at least BMW keeps the RWD 2er Coupe/M2 around for now.
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      07-12-2019, 07:59 AM   #630
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
That's would make it far more useful actually.

I hope you're correct.
Look at the teaser photo on the first page:

https://www.2addicts.com/forums/atta...6&d=1555948091

The way the gap circles upwards from the rear lights to the rear window, I would say it doesn't look like a lift-back, but maybe somebody with more experience in that domain can comment?
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      07-12-2019, 08:32 AM   #631
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
FWD...not even once.

I was hoping for a modern replacement for the 3-series as that car has become too large and numb. I'm sure this will be more fun than the A3 and A-class/CLA, but FWD simply cannot replicate the magic of the E36, E46, and E90.
Looks like the 2 coupe is still the only way to find a new old 3 series, sadly, with the compromise of only 2 doors, which won't work for some of us.
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      07-12-2019, 09:18 AM   #632
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Tiny wheels for the size of the car looks disproportionate like their X cars
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      07-12-2019, 09:23 AM   #633
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
If BMW takes this platform Electric it can be RWD or AWD.
RWD FAAR EVs can happen in principle, but I still think it is unlikely. The platform supports AWD, so obviously you can put power through the rear wheels, but the chassis was not designed with RWD-first applications in mind. If you look at the way rear suspension is engineered for a small RWD-first vehicle architecture and compare it to the rear suspension of a small FWD-first architecture, the former typically has a stiffer subframe, more stout control arms, beefier half shafts, etc.

It can all be retrofitted to FAAR at a cost, yes, but I am not so sure it makes sense given that this platform's useful life is probably only til the end of next decade. It won't be used for the next generation of MINI vehicles set to arrive starting in 2023, and it is quite possible that the next generation X1 and X2 (which will be fine with FWD/AWD electric drive) and next generation 1 Series Sedan will be the last BMW FAAR products.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
EV's with all the low end torque makes sense to be RWD.
EVs built on legacy platforms are most cost effective when they drive the same wheels as their ICE or PHEV counterparts.

EVs built on dedicated electric platforms should be RWD-first or the manufacturer has really blown it, badly. You don't introduce cross-talk between the drive system and steering system if you don't have to, and with an EV, you definitely don't have to because you can package the motor at the rear of the vehicle very cheaply (unlike with an ICE).

Quote:
I hope this doesn't mean the next 2 Series Coupe will be FWD as well.
Did you forget about this thread that you posted in just a few days ago?

https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1630541
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      07-12-2019, 09:54 AM   #634
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What BMW needs to do is go back and read the R&T article from 2016 that compared the 228 to the 235 and M2 and then put the 300hp 35i 4 banger in the 2 series and call it a 230is. Limit production, drop the weight, manual transmission, RWD, loaded up with leftover M performance parts bits as standard. That would sell.
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      07-12-2019, 10:33 AM   #635
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F82PRETEND View Post
What BMW needs to do is go back and read the R&T article from 2016 that compared the 228 to the 235 and M2 and then put the 300hp 35i 4 banger in the 2 series and call it a 230is. Limit production, drop the weight, manual transmission, RWD, loaded up with leftover M performance parts bits as standard. That would sell.
That name isn't consistent with their current branding, so more than likely it would simply be called an M235i. But, that detail aside (and really, who cares what it's called, right?), I agree with you that that would make for a fun car.

But it won't happen since the F22 and F23 are inside their final two years of production, and there is currently only a B48A20T1 (transverse), no B48B20T1 (longitudinal).

However, the car you describe could still appear as a next generation G42 product. In fact, there was an indication that there might be no B58-powered G42 at all, which would mean that a 300hp+ B48 model would be the only one available (in the US). It's not clear at this point whether this will happen or not. It is very likely that a significantly-higher-output longitudinal B48 will arrive sometime in the next three years or so though, which would mean they have all the pieces of the puzzle.
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      07-12-2019, 10:38 AM   #636
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
If BMW takes this platform Electric it can be RWD or AWD.
RWD FAAR EVs can happen in principle, but I still think it is unlikely. The platform supports AWD, so obviously you can put power through the rear wheels, but the chassis was not designed with RWD-first applications in mind. If you look at the way rear suspension is engineered for a small RWD-first vehicle architecture and compare it to the rear suspension of a small FWD-first architecture, the former typically has a stiffer subframe, more stout control arms, beefier half shafts, etc.

It can all be retrofitted to FAAR at a cost, yes, but I am not so sure it makes sense given that this platform's useful life is probably only til the end of next decade. It won't be used for the next generation of MINI vehicles set to arrive starting in 2023, and it is quite possible that the next generation X1 and X2 (which will be fine with FWD/AWD electric drive) and next generation 1 Series sedan will be the last BMW FAAR products.
Well if BMW wants to perform against Tesla's Model 3, they better pull out a wildcard fast...

And I mean really fast, because Tesla is absolutely killing it.
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      07-12-2019, 10:40 AM   #637
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbanck View Post
Look at the teaser photo on the first page:

https://www.2addicts.com/forums/atta...6&d=1555948091

The way the gap circles upwards from the rear lights to the rear window, I would say it doesn't look like a lift-back, but maybe somebody with more experience in that domain can comment?
Agreed.

But it's still always a possibility.
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      07-12-2019, 10:52 AM   #638
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Quote:
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Well if BMW wants to perform against Tesla's Model 3, they better pull out a wildcard fast...
They have the i4 coming in 2021.

Any other new BEV entering development now, be it on FAAR, CLAR, or some other new vehicle architecture, has no chance of arriving ahead of that date. But, we know BMW has a lot more BEVs coming by 2023, and at this point it is anyone's guess what those will be. I maintain that any of those that might be built on FAAR will be front motor FWD (like the new MINI Cooper SE) and/or dual motor AWD.
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