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      09-20-2018, 04:05 PM   #1
drummerman15
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What's wrong with my TURBOS?

I've had several different "opinions" from the stealerships on what the issues are with this car (there are many) - it is a 2011 X5 with the N63 dual turbo setup. Shortly after buying the car, it started to continually go into low power fault mode under heavy acceleration (i.e. when the turbos are supposed to kick in). The codes would always say something like a misfire in a cylinder and you would just have to turn the car off and it would reset - you were good until you tried to accelerate too fast. Again, always a misfire code or something with coils. I've replaced all of the spark plugs and coils, some oil feeder tubes, etc. and nothing ever solved the issue. I then took it to the stealership to give them another chance to figure it out. When the car was returned, as soon as you started it, the warning came on the screen that the car was overheated (never before had I received that warning). The service tech asked if I had everything done to the car they suggested (they suggested changing a spark plugs I had just changed) and said they couldn't let me take it. I left it for another day and when it was returned, same warnings. The tech said that, when I brought the car in, the coolant for the turbos (separate coolant tank) was empty and damaged the turbos. (price to fix = $7k). They said the warning was associated with the temp sensor on the turbos and I could disregard since the turbos never work anyway. When I got the car home, I lifted up the hood and found that the turbo coolant tank was empty and the cap was left on the fan shroud. [My wife is convinced that someone test drove the car real hard and damaged it somehow].

Since then, we just drive easy so the turbos never try to kick on and we have no problems. Now, the VANOS is fouled up and the car immediately goes into fault mode on startup. The codes show VANOS on bank 1. Of course, the VANOS is blocked by the turbo intercooler so I need to take that off to get to it. I also have an appointment at a new stealership on Monday to get the air bag replaced. I'm also going to have them look into the turbo issue and try to give me their story as to what is going on.

I am perplexed tat my turbos could burn up without coolant yet I never received any type of warning from a car that warns you about everything. I can't imagine that they did not think to put a "turbo coolant level sensor" if they are using 2 separate coolant tanks. I am also at a loss as to how my turbos could be burned up if, every time they try to kick in, the car goes into a fault mode. Also, never once when it went into a fault mode did a code mention any kind of issue with the turbos or cooling - always a misfire or coil. Only after leaving it at the stealership did this new overheating problem arise.

Is there something I've missed or they have missed? Is it possible that it is just a fouled up sensor somewhere in the turbo path or the separate coolant pump that would cause these issues? Any help on what to tell the stealership on Monday would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.
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      09-20-2018, 04:20 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drummerman15 View Post
I've had several different "opinions" from the stealerships on what the issues are with this car (there are many) - it is a 2011 X5 with the N63 dual turbo setup. Shortly after buying the car, it started to continually go into low power fault mode under heavy acceleration (i.e. when the turbos are supposed to kick in). The codes would always say something like a misfire in a cylinder and you would just have to turn the car off and it would reset - you were good until you tried to accelerate too fast. Again, always a misfire code or something with coils. I've replaced all of the spark plugs and coils, some oil feeder tubes, etc. and nothing ever solved the issue. I then took it to the stealership to give them another chance to figure it out. When the car was returned, as soon as you started it, the warning came on the screen that the car was overheated (never before had I received that warning). The service tech asked if I had everything done to the car they suggested (they suggested changing a spark plugs I had just changed) and said they couldn't let me take it. I left it for another day and when it was returned, same warnings. The tech said that, when I brought the car in, the coolant for the turbos (separate coolant tank) was empty and damaged the turbos. (price to fix = $7k). They said the warning was associated with the temp sensor on the turbos and I could disregard since the turbos never work anyway. When I got the car home, I lifted up the hood and found that the turbo coolant tank was empty and the cap was left on the fan shroud. [My wife is convinced that someone test drove the car real hard and damaged it somehow].

Since then, we just drive easy so the turbos never try to kick on and we have no problems. Now, the VANOS is fouled up and the car immediately goes into fault mode on startup. The codes show VANOS on bank 1. Of course, the VANOS is blocked by the turbo intercooler so I need to take that off to get to it. I also have an appointment at a new stealership on Monday to get the air bag replaced. I'm also going to have them look into the turbo issue and try to give me their story as to what is going on.

I am perplexed tat my turbos could burn up without coolant yet I never received any type of warning from a car that warns you about everything. I can't imagine that they did not think to put a "turbo coolant level sensor" if they are using 2 separate coolant tanks. I am also at a loss as to how my turbos could be burned up if, every time they try to kick in, the car goes into a fault mode. Also, never once when it went into a fault mode did a code mention any kind of issue with the turbos or cooling - always a misfire or coil. Only after leaving it at the stealership did this new overheating problem arise.

Is there something I've missed or they have missed? Is it possible that it is just a fouled up sensor somewhere in the turbo path or the separate coolant pump that would cause these issues? Any help on what to tell the stealership on Monday would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.
I bought a similar X5 50i 2011 about 3 months back.

Ran into similar problems like you, codes and low power upon hard acceleration.

My BMW dealer did it good by just changing the DMTL pump, MAF sensor, spark plugs ,fresh battery , coolant flush, fresh oil and filter change.

I ran fuel cleaners like Seafoam in every tankful of gas for the last three months to clean out the bad gas used by previous owner.

Now my X5 runs as good as new and gold.
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      09-21-2018, 07:38 AM   #3
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What exactly are these and why did you change them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by drummerman15 View Post
oil feeder tubes

Since your expansion tank for the turbo coolant was empty, and they claim that the turbos are overheating...is it possible that your auxiliary water pump (that feeds coolant to turbos) went out and dumped the coolant? Maybe take off some of the plastic undercarriage and see if there is wet/dry coolant there? If that's your issue, that pump shouldn't be hard to replace and they do fail time to time. I had one failing with no warning.

As far as the vehicle going into limp mode at WOT, that is usually (but not always) associated with either coils (which you changed), fuel injectors (which it sounds like you didn't), and bad/cracked vent pipes (not sure if this is what you are referring to as oil feeder tubes). They have oil residue in them but are vacuum lines.

Do you hear any whistling under hard acceleration? Does the truck misfire/run rough when idling in limp mode? Did you gap your plugs or were they pre-gapped?

If your fault codes showed you misfire on one or multiple cylinders, but not all, you may have some faulty injectors. Misfires are not only caused by coils and that engine (N63) is notorious for injector failure. Check service history and see if those have been replaced under the N63 service bulletin. If not, that could be your problem and replacement could be free. Did you leave those codes stored on your DME or did you erase them? Helps the techs when codes are stored so you don't have to replicate the problem.

Sorry I'm brainstorming here but these are some things you should consider. Good luck on sorting this out and keep us updated.

Last edited by mirob; 09-21-2018 at 07:44 AM..
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      09-21-2018, 12:36 PM   #4
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Yes, you were correct - the crankcase vent lines have been replaced. Coils have been replaced under the CCP (should be all new coils), as well as spark plugs. I also changed the spark plugs - they were pre-gapped but I also double-checked them.

I'm on day 3 of trying to figure out how to remove the 3rd bolt from the intercooler

[is it possible that your auxiliary water pump (that feeds coolant to turbos) went out and dumped the coolant?] Very possible - the system does not appear to have a leak as the fluid level doesn't seem to go down. Although, I noticed a lot of evidence of leakage at the hoses on top - not sure it that is from fluid release under pressure, but I definitely need to change the rubber lines. There was, however, no evidence of leakage before it went to the stealership - I would have definitely noticed that.

[As far as the vehicle going into limp mode at WOT, that is usually (but not always) associated with either coils (which you changed), fuel injectors (which it sounds like you didn't), and bad/cracked vent pipes (not sure if this is what you are referring to as oil feeder tubes).] It is not always a wide open throttle that causes the fault, sometimes, just spirited acceleration - i.e. moving from 60-80 mph to pass. It seems that at the point the turbos should kick in, the fault appears. Vent lines replaced, and coils replaced - not sure about injectors.

[Do you hear any whistling under hard acceleration?] No whistling

Does the truck misfire/run rough when idling in limp mode? [I haven't driven it very far in that mode, I will check if there is rough idle - it "seems" to be rough just because it is startling to go from 8 cyl to 4 cyl]

[If your fault codes showed you misfire on one or multiple cylinders, but not all, you may have some faulty injectors.] I don;t believe the injectors were ever replaced under the CCP - I will ask about that.

[Did you leave those codes stored on your DME or did you erase them?] I am sure those have been deleted - the last code read only had the VANOS issue, but I have the BMW service reports that, I think, indicated the codes that were pulled.

Any advice on how to check the pump operation or DIY instructions on replacement?

Thanks for all the help!
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      09-21-2018, 10:44 PM   #5
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Do you have Carly? It will help understand what is going on. I had a ton of turbo issues and it help.ed

The turbo intercooler low coolant fault comes up wonky.

"Charge air Cooling, energy operation
Code: 002EA6"

The code should still be there if that happened.

Vanos are easy to change. I could take it apart in about 30 minutes now. JUST DONT CHEAP ON THESE! I replaced them 4 times (2 each side) because I bought crappy amazon ones. I cleaned my old ones and my faults went away. I recommend you do this if you can. Costs nothing and could solve some issues.

As for plugs. Take them out, and gap them. Make sure they are all exactly the same as spec. When I gapped mine out of the box, they were all over the place. It's crucial for proper turbo support. If you are concerned your pump went bad, run the self-burping procedure and see if it burps the line. If it doesn't then maybe bad pump. Shouldn't be a bad replacement.

You can get factory restored turbos and seals for under $1k. Do it yourself, its not hard and just takes time. There are guides here and you can see my thread about my issues. You can have them replaced in about 8 hours.

Save yourself some time and read the instructions at newtis. Here is the link for the air charge cooler removal.

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...ing/1VnZ6RJYmI

Good luck. PM me if you need help. I was able to fix a non-working set turbos with some time and red-necking.

If I missed anything in your thread or totally missed the point, let me know.
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      09-22-2018, 07:10 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary214 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by drummerman15 View Post
I've had several different "opinions" from the stealerships on what the issues are with this car (there are many) - it is a 2011 X5 with the N63 dual turbo setup. Shortly after buying the car, it started to continually go into low power fault mode under heavy acceleration (i.e. when the turbos are supposed to kick in). The codes would always say something like a misfire in a cylinder and you would just have to turn the car off and it would reset - you were good until you tried to accelerate too fast. Again, always a misfire code or something with coils. I've replaced all of the spark plugs and coils, some oil feeder tubes, etc. and nothing ever solved the issue. I then took it to the stealership to give them another chance to figure it out. When the car was returned, as soon as you started it, the warning came on the screen that the car was overheated (never before had I received that warning). The service tech asked if I had everything done to the car they suggested (they suggested changing a spark plugs I had just changed) and said they couldn't let me take it. I left it for another day and when it was returned, same warnings. The tech said that, when I brought the car in, the coolant for the turbos (separate coolant tank) was empty and damaged the turbos. (price to fix = $7k). They said the warning was associated with the temp sensor on the turbos and I could disregard since the turbos never work anyway. When I got the car home, I lifted up the hood and found that the turbo coolant tank was empty and the cap was left on the fan shroud. [My wife is convinced that someone test drove the car real hard and damaged it somehow].

Since then, we just drive easy so the turbos never try to kick on and we have no problems. Now, the VANOS is fouled up and the car immediately goes into fault mode on startup. The codes show VANOS on bank 1. Of course, the VANOS is blocked by the turbo intercooler so I need to take that off to get to it. I also have an appointment at a new stealership on Monday to get the air bag replaced. I'm also going to have them look into the turbo issue and try to give me their story as to what is going on.

I am perplexed tat my turbos could burn up without coolant yet I never received any type of warning from a car that warns you about everything. I can't imagine that they did not think to put a "turbo coolant level sensor" if they are using 2 separate coolant tanks. I am also at a loss as to how my turbos could be burned up if, every time they try to kick in, the car goes into a fault mode. Also, never once when it went into a fault mode did a code mention any kind of issue with the turbos or cooling - always a misfire or coil. Only after leaving it at the stealership did this new overheating problem arise.

Is there something I've missed or they have missed? Is it possible that it is just a fouled up sensor somewhere in the turbo path or the separate coolant pump that would cause these issues? Any help on what to tell the stealership on Monday would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.
I bought a similar X5 50i 2011 about 3 months back.

Ran into similar problems like you, codes and low power upon hard acceleration.

My BMW dealer did it good by just changing the DMTL pump, MAF sensor, spark plugs ,fresh battery , coolant flush, fresh oil and filter change.

I ran fuel cleaners like Seafoam in every tankful of gas for the last three months to clean out the bad gas used by previous owner.

Now my X5 runs as good as new and gold.
Is that sea foam all that it's cracked up to be? Better than Lucas?
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      09-23-2018, 02:09 AM   #7
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Thanks cd85233 ! No Carly but I will look into getting that if I hold onto this car... I used a standard code reader from Autozone. I've never received the air cooler code - even when the dealer pulls the codes. Always a misfire issue.

I was able to get to the third bolt on the intercooler without removing the fan but it was a pain. Even if you removed the fan, it is still a pain. I ended up using an endoscope to help me find the bolt location and seat the socket. On the left bank, there are a ton of electrical wires behind the cooler and one was blocking the bolt. Also, there was a ton of oil and dirt between the intercooler and engine block - the electrics were coated. I suspect the vanos may have been slowly (or maybe not so slowly) leaking. I cleaned them up and bench tested them and they tested OK - they are back in but I haven't started it. I'll need to reassemble the intercooler and hoses tomorrow - I am seriously considering leaving that third bolt out.

I'm also going to slowly look into the turbo issue. I will post what happens with burping procedure and diagnosing the source of the turbo issue.
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      09-23-2018, 02:47 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drummerman15 View Post
Thanks cd85233 ! No Carly but I will look into getting that if I hold onto this car... I used a standard code reader from Autozone. I've never received the air cooler code - even when the dealer pulls the codes. Always a misfire issue.

I was able to get to the third bolt on the intercooler without removing the fan but it was a pain. Even if you removed the fan, it is still a pain. I ended up using an endoscope to help me find the bolt location and seat the socket. On the left bank, there are a ton of electrical wires behind the cooler and one was blocking the bolt. Also, there was a ton of oil and dirt between the intercooler and engine block - the electrics were coated. I suspect the vanos may have been slowly (or maybe not so slowly) leaking. I cleaned them up and bench tested them and they tested OK - they are back in but I haven't started it. I'll need to reassemble the intercooler and hoses tomorrow - I am seriously considering leaving that third bolt out.

I'm also going to slowly look into the turbo issue. I will post what happens with burping procedure and diagnosing the source of the turbo issue.
You're welcome. Take the fan out. Seriously. It makes a huge diferencie and take about 2 minutes to do. If I recall one of the 3 bolts can stay in and just has to be loosened. Don't leave a bolt out, just put some tape around the boot and the socket and it will go in easy.

I remember all the wires, you can move them around. I would think you are talking about the passenger side. That actually the easier side for me.

I wouldn't trust the dealers plugs. Should be easy enough to take them out and check them. I can't imagine getting a misfire with good plugs, good vanos and good coil packs. But I'm not terribly familiar with what other things may cause the misfires.
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      09-23-2018, 02:53 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UglyBuzzard View Post
Is that sea foam all that it's cracked up to be? Better than Lucas?
I know you weren't asking me but I'd say putting it in the gas tank isn't worth much. I hear it does nothing for cleaning. However, I love it for injecting straight into the vacuum lines and in the oil right before an oil change.
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      09-23-2018, 03:36 PM   #10
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I got both VANOS cleaned on the passenger side and all is good again...except for the turbo issue and the persistent n63 oil leak. I'm thinking the Vanos were contributing to the oil loss as there was so much oil and dirt in that area. If I see more oil there, I will either replace the VANOS or get new seals - I'm sure they are worn.

On the turbos, the Aux pump is not doing anything - no coolant moving under operation or when trying the burping procedure. Also, on the burping, nothing happens with the turbos system or the regular cooling system. The procedure starts, the "!" comes on the screen, no pumps turn on, then the car turns itself off. But, when the engine is running, the regular cooling system shows coolant flow in the expansion tank (although, I still have a small coolant leak somewhere - have to add 1/2 gallon every week or so). Under operation, the Aux pump does nothing. I read that BMW issued a recall in April 2018 on the Aux pump, so I will ask about that at the dealership - https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/201...8V248-8708.pdf. Again, I have never had a warning or code about the Aux cooling system or the pump.

So, I fully expect the stealership to find a reason to say "no" on the Aux pump for whatever reason. Will the Aux pump failure cause the system some of the other issues I'm experiencing (i.e. limp mode on acceleration instead of the turbos kicking in)? If I get the pump going what should be the next step I should take in troubleshooting the turbo issue (assuming all of the plugs and coils are good)?
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      09-24-2018, 01:14 AM   #11
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The burping procedure will not start without a batter charger hooked up in the engine bay. At least that was my experience.

For me, when I had low coolant in the turbo lines I got the fault but no lights or limp mode from it.

Have you driven it since the vanos fix? Clear your codes and start fresh and see what happens. Def get carly to help with codes. Autozone ones won't do anything for you. You can also plot things to see what's going on with the tubos.

I'm not sure if your turbo issues will be solved by the pump unless it has a hard shutoff when over heating.

I would bank on the plugs being badly gapped. It's an hour long affair to check but it's worth it.
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      09-24-2018, 07:16 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cd85233 View Post
I would bank on the plugs being badly gapped. It's an hour long affair to check but it's worth it.
I think he already did that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drummerman15 View Post
I also changed the spark plugs - they were pre-gapped but I also double-checked them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drummerman15 View Post
Always a misfire issue.
I think that there is a pretty good chance that it's your injectors. Don't clear your codes next time you run it, if it shows misfires, dealer will have no choice but to replace them. Get a flashlight in there and see if you can tell what index they are - anything older than -11 or -12 and they likely need to be replaced...

Side note: Is your exhaust stock? Have you ever removed the rubber lines from the exhaust valves? When I first did my exhaust, I didn't plug those and would go into limp mode when accelerating - until I plugged them...
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      09-26-2018, 09:18 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drummerman15 View Post
Also, there was a ton of oil and dirt between the intercooler and engine block - the electrics were coated. I suspect the vanos may have been slowly (or maybe not so slowly) leaking.
That dirt and oil residue on passenger side is there simply because whoever changed the oil spilled it all over when aiming to the filler hole. It drains down behind the intercooler and those wires.

That residue can be found in every N63 engine after few regular oil changes at dealer. Yes, they are too busy to care where they throw the new oil. Just aiming somewhere under the hood and hoping part of it ends up inside the engine.
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      09-26-2018, 03:59 PM   #14
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I think he already did that.





I think that there is a pretty good chance that it's your injectors. Don't clear your codes next time you run it, if it shows misfires, dealer will have no choice but to replace them. Get a flashlight in there and see if you can tell what index they are - anything older than -11 or -12 and they likely need to be replaced...

Side note: Is your exhaust stock? Have you ever removed the rubber lines from the exhaust valves? When I first did my exhaust, I didn't plug those and would go into limp mode when accelerating - until I plugged them...
Ahh sorry. I guess I would have lost that bet.
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      09-26-2018, 04:34 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary214 View Post
I bought a similar X5 50i 2011 about 3 months back.

Ran into similar problems like you, codes and low power upon hard acceleration.

My BMW dealer did it good by just changing the DMTL pump, MAF sensor, spark plugs ,fresh battery , coolant flush, fresh oil and filter change.

I ran fuel cleaners like Seafoam in every tankful of gas for the last three months to clean out the bad gas used by previous owner.

Now my X5 runs as good as new and gold.
Didn't change the coils?You had to have changed the coils.
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      10-10-2018, 03:10 AM   #16
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I took it to the dealer and had the airbags replaced and they also put a new driveshaft that was recently recalled. When I got it back, I fixed the Aux Water Pump and all is good there. I still need to fix the turbo coolant hoses as they are leaky.

When I fixed the water pump, I took it out for a drive and gassed it a few times. After the 1st time, no fault at heavy acceleration, BUT as soon as I slowed down, it started coughing and sputtering and went into fault mode. I restarted the car, the idle was better and I gassed it again, fault mode and bad idle. Third time, same thing. I pulled the codes and it showed multiple misfires on several cylinders - both banks. I took it back to the dealer and paid the 180 diagnostic fee expecting them to blame the usual suspects (plugs, coils, injectors). Here are the results:

They say it was all caused by a loose clamp on the intercooler - and the oil consumption issue are leaks at the turbo line cover and upper oil gasket (very time consuming fixes for replacement of a gasket).

"Checking all of the faults my guys here followed the issue back to a loose clamp on the intercooler. There was a breach in the system. We ordered a new clamp. It wasn’t very much and we are going to install it within the hours diag that was approved. Its been test driven and he hasn’t had a problem under hard accelerations as of yet."

"Additional concerns he noted the following as recommendations.

Thrust arm bushings are worn: 1098.96
Upper oil pan gasket leaking: 4074.45
Oil return cover leaking & coolant cross over lines (over lapping labor) 4991.00
a/c compressor belt missing: 622.20
cabin air filters due 244.11 Per vehicle data)
brake fluid flush due: 235.00 (per vehicle data)
oil change reading due 235.00 (per vehicle data)"

I pick it up tomorrow - we'll see what happens....

They also say that my hot engine warning light at startup is due to thin coolant - can that be correct (this showed up while it was at the dealer a few months ago and I thought it was the Aux Pump causing it - after replacement, the warning was still there)? or do I have a faulty sensor?
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