Oil pan gasket question

[dutch724]

Hi, I have never posted on this website but I have a question about my X5.

I have recently bought my first BMW, a 2013 X5 3.5i with about 56,000 miles on it. It now has 67,000 miles on it and the service due light came on to have the brake fluid changed. As I want this car to last a very long time and be reliable as it can be for my wife I had the brake fluid changed. Of course the mechanic looked over the car and found a small leak around the oil pan….. They tell me the oil pan gasket needs to be replaced and they will email me a quote. The quote I got seems to be very high for an independent bmw shop. I understand this is a very exhausting task to get to the oil pan to pull it off, but I was reading somewhere else on the internet it should cost as high as this quote. Please take a look at this quote and let me know what you see wrong with it. Do they really need to replace all the items that they have listed to be replaced? I am proably never going to go back to this shop again. I would just like to get everyone’s insight to this issue. I honestly don’t think a car this new should need a new oil pan gasket or that it should leak at all.
I have attached the quote I got.

[Ghanziang]

I don't have answer for you as I just got my X5 myself. I have been watching the oil threads as I am concerned I may need to do this soon as well. When I purchased my X5, I was also looking a different X5 they had in stock, with 98,000 miles that had just had it's oil pan replaced. I didn't see a quote, but the salesman indicated it was an expensive process. I am curious what their hourly rate is in New Jersey, in Colorado, it is about $120 / hour. Is this really a 12 hour job?

G.

[omgboost]

Very common problem with the N55s.

I paid about $1,600 for mine through an indy. You can try to do it yourself but it is very labor intensive. DIY video of E90 to give you a general idea of what is involved:

This guy talks about how long it takes to do it but he has done many so it would be faster for him. Could the shop be charging you for 12 hours but only spend 7 hours wrenching? Yes.

[335dsleeper]

It's a lot of labor. You'll need to support the engine for the top and lower the subframe to have enough room to remove the pan, gasket and replace. It's a good amount of work although that price does seem a bit steep.

[dutch724]

Thank you for all the advice. I figured these guys were just looking for something that was an expensive fix to try and get me to have them do it. I went into the shop to get a brake fluid flush and to ask about a grinding noise coming from the front end that my wife hears. I'm almost certain it is not the brake pads because they aren't low. I figured it would be easier for the shop to do it while it was on the lift. They came back and said they couldn't narrow it down to one thing. Could be the bearings or the brakes is what I was told. But they could definitely tell me I needed a $2000 repair. I'm not doubting there might be a small leak I just don't think it was more important than the grinding noise that we asked about.
Looks like I will be doing a little investigating and cleaning up the engine area to see what they are talking about. changing the oil is due anyway.
I hear a lot of people have to change the oil pan because of striping out the threads on the drain plug....... is there a certain torque that the plug needs to be?

[omgboost]

Originally Posted by dutch724

I hear a lot of people have to change the oil pan because of striping out the threads on the drain plug....... is there a certain torque that the plug needs to be?

It's the same as the engine oil filter. The engine oil filter says what the torque should be. I think it's like 25nm or 18 ft lbs. Double check when you open up your hood.

[dutch724]

That sounds about right, 18.4 ft lbs.

[Alex Ander]

I am curious to know how it ended up with that oil pan gasket...

I had and still have a similar problem with a leak from the pan, which was found by an indy while doing the differentials oil change at 55k miles.
They are so keen on doing the oil pan job and telling how labor intensive it is. Yet a good mechanic should be able to do it in under 8 hours.
So 1200/1300$ should be more likely, considering there are less than 150$ of parts and oil.

Ironically, this indy mechanic that found the oil leak is specialized in super cars like: Ferrari, Lambo, Aston Martin etc.. and they had several cans of Liqui Moly products, including the Oil Saver, laying around the shop. Although they did not mention it to me as a possible solution obviously, it was the sight of one can of Oil Saver at that shop that made me explore more about it and it has an 80% success rate at Amazon, for what is worth.

Anyway before doing the oil pan job, I tried Liqui Moly Oil Saver and after 1000 miles it reduced the oil leak significantly.
Then I also changed oil viscosity from 5w-30 to 5w-40 Penzoil Euro Platinum (great oil) and at the moment it leaks/use 250ml every 1500 miles, before the treatment with Oil Saver, it was using 1 liter every 1200 miles....
Considering I like to change oil every 5k miles I can live with a small leak, at least if it stays like that.


By the way, the BMW digital dip stick, contrary to popular believe and myths, is quite precise.
From min to max level lines it correspond to 1 liter and every single gap in between, there are 4 of them, it is 250ml.
If you add 250/300ml of oil at the time the line will move just 1/4 at the time.

[X5 MAN]

Originally Posted by Alex Ander

I am curious to know how it ended up with that oil pan gasket...

I had and still have a similar problem with a leak from the pan, which was found by an indy while doing the differentials oil change at 55k miles.
They are so keen on doing the oil pan job and telling how labor intensive it is. Yet a good mechanic should be able to do it in under 8 hours.
So 1200/1300$ should be more likely, considering there are less than 150$ of parts and oil.

Ironically, this indy mechanic that found the oil leak is specialized in super cars like: Ferrari, Lambo, Aston Martin etc.. and they had several cans of Liqui Moly products, including the Oil Saver, laying around the shop. Although they did not mention it to me as a possible solution obviously, it was the sight of one can of Oil Saver at that shop that made me explore more about it and it has an 80% success rate at Amazon, for what is worth.

Anyway before doing the oil pan job, I tried Liqui Moly Oil Saver and after 1000 miles it reduced the oil leak significantly.
Then I also changed oil viscosity from 5w-30 to 5w-40 Penzoil Euro Platinum (great oil) and at the moment it leaks/use 250ml every 1500 miles, before the treatment with Oil Saver, it was using 1 liter every 1200 miles....
Considering I like to change oil every 5k miles I can live with a small leak, at least if it stays like that.


By the way, the BMW digital dip stick, contrary to popular believe and myths, is quite precise.
From min to max level lines it correspond to 1 liter and every single gap in between, there are 4 of them, it is 250ml.
If you add 250/300ml of oil at the time the line will move just 1/4 at the time.

Actually when it is at minimum mark, and I add a quart of oil, it shows maximum after a little drive

But mine is V8 50i

[Alex Ander]

Originally Posted by X5 MAN

Actually when it is at minimum mark, and I add a quart of oil, it shows maximum after a little drive

But mine is V8 50i

Exactly.
That is how it is supposed to be.
You do not even need to drive it. You just idle it on a flat ground for a few minutes and it will show the adjusted oil level.
1 liter or 1 quart there is little difference.

[hennessy_r24]

If you dont have to add a loot of oil between oil changes stretch it till it get worse. The n55 is well known for oil leaks, just replace my valve cover last night after dealing with the oil burning smell for about a year.

I love my bmw but they are not build witn reliability in mind, when bmw sended the b58 engine to Toyota for the new supra for reliability testing. Toyota had to send back a lot of parts for bmw to redesign to toyota standards, that has a lot to say.

[Alex Ander]

Originally Posted by hennessy_r24

If you dont have to add a loot of oil between oil changes stretch it till it get worse. The n55 is well known for oil leaks, just replace my valve cover last night after dealing with the oil burning smell for about a year.

That is what I will do, since the average usage of oil is less than a quart per 5k miles, which is well within BMW standards, I will keep going until it last that way. I also had to replace the cover gasket, but I have replaced as soon as I found the leak, because beside the smell, there is always a risk of oil falling on the serpentine belt and triggering issues that are a lot worst.

Originally Posted by hennessy_r24

I love my bmw but they are not build witn reliability in mind, when bmw sended the b58 engine to Toyota for the new supra for reliability testing. Toyota had to send back a lot of parts for bmw to redesign to toyota standards, that has a lot to say.

True, yet recently one of Toyota bosses said that they would had never been able to design the same engine on their own, because beside the expertise that they do not have, they would had not been able to keep Supra price below 100K price, instead of 56K they are able to sell it now after BMW designed the engine for them.
Sure Toyota are generally more reliable, yet the experience of driving is always a bit "primitive" if I can use an analogy like this.

[X5 MAN]

Originally Posted by Alex Ander

That is what I will do, since the average usage of oil is less than a quart per 5k miles, which is well within BMW standards, I will keep going until it last that way. I also had to replace the cover gasket, but I have replaced as soon as I found the leak, because beside the smell, there is always a risk of oil falling on the serpentine belt and triggering issues that are a lot worst.


True, yet recently one of Toyota bosses said that they would had never been able to design the same engine on their own, because beside the expertise that they do not have, they would had not been able to keep Supra price below 100K price, instead of 56K they are able to sell it now after BMW designed the engine for them.
Sure Toyota are generally more reliable, yet the experience of driving is always a bit "primitive" if I can use an analogy like this.

Toyota philosophy is to provide customer with a reliable car which can last two decades without major repairs and update.

BMW philosophy is to build performance cars which their main customers are only supposed to LEASE for three years and sell it to the next sucker who cannot afford a new BMW

[Thecastle]

Originally Posted by X5 MAN

Toyota philosophy is to provide customer with a reliable car which can last two decades without major repairs and update.

BMW philosophy is to build performance cars which their main customers are only supposed to LEASE for three years and sell it to the next sucker who cannot afford a new BMW

Kinda, I’m not sure that any car made now a days is all that reliable given the large amounts of plastic engine components that fail under repeated heat cycles.

Heck my 2000 ford f450 with the “bullet proof” 7.3l power stroke needs as much finical love as my x5m. Failed wiring, plastic crumbling, oil leaks, ball joints, etc. on the ford. However the power stroke has just over 325,000 miles on it. My friends 1994 bubble area Honda Accord with manual, needs new power steering pumps every 30-60k miles and is in rough shape.,.

No car lasts forever not even Toyota. Remember they had tons of sludge problems.... all cars have their issues. What makes bmw somewhat notorious is that they like to stick cheap parts that are prone to fail in labor intensive places to repair. Making it expensive to maintain. Servicabilty on primitive Toyota’s is easier and cheap. More Ford is cheaper yet.