S63 engine failures... any way to avoid them/mitigate the risk?

[michaelalex3]

Hi all, I've recently started looking into E70 X5Ms as I can't find a nice E61, and I can't find an F15 35i with DHP. I had considered an E70 35i for awhile, but I've changed some priorities with spending (going to spend less on a sports car), so an E70 X5M is well within my budget.

However, I have one really big concern, and that's engine failures. It looks like there are many S63s seizing around 50k-80k miles, and with little warning. While spending ~$15k or so to get a rebuilt engine wouldn't ruin me, it would really suck lol. Plus, I don't want to drive around constantly worried the engine is going to randomly seize. So my question is, are there any known ways to avoid the common failure modes of the S63? Rod/main bearing preemptive replacement? Frequent oil changes? Low temp tstat? Reliable aftermarket warranty (if such a thing even exists)? Any input is greatly appreciated, thanks!

[SlowX6M]

By 50k miles these engines are so chocked up with carbon that engine seizure isn't even the biggest concern, they just don't put out the same power as new. Plus there is so many other thing that go wrong, it ends up costing you as much as leasing a brand model.

[Autobacs]

Originally Posted by SlowX6M

By 50k miles these engines are so chocked up with carbon that engine seizure isn't even the biggest concern, they just don't put out the same power as new. Plus there is so many other thing that go wrong, it ends up costing you as much as leasing a brand model.

Not at all. Not with a good aftermarket warranty or if you can wrench yourself.

[Autobacs]

Originally Posted by michaelalex3

Hi all, I've recently started looking into E70 X5Ms as I can't find a nice E61, and I can't find an F15 35i with DHP. I had considered an E70 35i for awhile, but I've changed some priorities with spending (going to spend less on a sports car), so an E70 X5M is well within my budget.

However, I have one really big concern, and that's engine failures. It looks like there are many S63s seizing around 50k-80k miles, and with little warning. While spending ~$15k or so to get a rebuilt engine wouldn't ruin me, it would really suck lol. Plus, I don't want to drive around constantly worried the engine is going to randomly seize. So my question is, are there any known ways to avoid the common failure modes of the S63? Rod/main bearing preemptive replacement? Frequent oil changes? Low temp tstat? Reliable aftermarket warranty (if such a thing even exists)? Any input is greatly appreciated, thanks!

The one I bought at 65K miles had has the transmission and turbos replaced, just before I bought it, plus the usual suspects, i.e. vacuum lines, tie rods and all the recalls. 2 years, 15k miles, no problems. Just got hit with an air suspension failure on one of the rear bags and expansion tank, covered by my warranty even though I had to shell out some of my own money. For the performance and pleasure I get out of it, it's worth it to me, knowing this platform is not going to have Lexus reliability.

If you are looking for an uber reliable platform, an X5M is not going to be it. All depends on your expectations.

[pdX5M]

Two things that can help with engine longevity are frequent oil changes - every 5-7k miles - as well as taking it easy until engine oil is up to operating temp. Bearing clearances are tight in these motors and those are two simple steps you can take to help keep it running well.

I've had my 2013 M for just over two years now and am still loving it. Best mix of practicality for a family/work and fun in this price bracket.

[michaelalex3]

Originally Posted by Autobacs

The one I bought at 65K miles had has the transmission and turbos replaced, just before I bought it, plus the usual suspects, i.e. vacuum lines, tie rods and all the recalls. 2 years, 15k miles, no problems. Just got hit with an air suspension failure on one of the rear bags and expansion tank, covered by my warranty even though I had to shell out some of my own money. For the performance and pleasure I get out of it, it's worth it to me, knowing this platform is not going to have Lexus reliability.

If you are looking for an uber reliable platform, an X5M is not going to be it. All depends on your expectations.

What warranty do you have on it? From what I've read, most of the good warranty companies won't even warranty an X5M. Also what happened with the trans? I haven't seen trans failures mentioned often.

I certainly don't expect Lexus reliability, but I don't want a nightmare either.

Originally Posted by pdX5M

I've had my 2013 M for just over two years now and am still loving it. Best mix of practicality for a family/work and fun in this price bracket.

This is exactly why I want one, I can't think of a more fun + practical daily for under 30k. I don't plan to put tons of miles on it, probably like 5k a year.

[Autobacs]

Originally Posted by michaelalex3

What warranty do you have on it? From what I've read, most of the good warranty companies won't even warranty an X5M. Also what happened with the trans? I haven't seen trans failures mentioned often.

I certainly don't expect Lexus reliability, but I don't want a nightmare either.



This is exactly why I want one, I can't think of a more fun + practical daily for under 30k. I don't plan to put tons of miles on it, probably like 5k a year.

Red Shield. They paid as expected so I'm satisfied with them.

No idea and don't care why the tranny was replaced by the previous owner. All I know is I had a brand new tranny that only had 15K miles of use, plus the brand new turbos, when I bought it. The work was done by BMW San Diego and paid for by the previous owner's warranty company.

Look for one with good maintenance records, like mine, and with parts already replaced is a definite plus in my book. BMW only requires oil change every 15K miles. I'd pick one that was done sooner i.e, every 5K miles.

[heatmizr]

I got lucky, most all the trouble stuff was done under warranty (in some cases barely) before 50k miles. Incl valve stem class action work.
I've been happy and trouble free - and more importantly stress free - for 2 yrs.

I should clarify, I never got stranded or scared by anything.

[Autobacs]

Originally Posted by heatmizr

I got lucky, most all the trouble stuff was done under warranty (in some cases barely) before 50k miles. Incl valve stem class action work.
I've been happy and trouble free - and more importantly stress free - for 2 yrs.

I should clarify, I never got stranded or scared by anything.

OP was asking for S63 engines. Even though the N63 is very similar, they have oil issues that in my experience, the S63 does not. I had a CPO 650i previously and they used up 0.5 quart every 1K miles. I use 0.5 quarts only every 5K miles on my S63.

[pearlpower]

Leaking fuel injectors (fuel in oil) and 10k oil changes contribute to blown motors. Occasional oil pump failures.

[Thecastle]

Originally Posted by michaelalex3

However, I have one really big concern, and that's engine failures. It looks like there are many S63s seizing around 50k-80k miles, and with little warning. While spending ~$15k or so to get a rebuilt engine wouldn't ruin me, it would really suck lol. Plus, I don't want to drive around constantly worried the engine is going to randomly seize. So my question is, are there any known ways to avoid the common failure modes of the S63? Rod/main bearing preemptive replacement? Frequent oil changes? Low temp tstat? Reliable aftermarket warranty (if such a thing even exists)? Any input is greatly appreciated, thanks!

I wouldn't be concerned about engine failures, they really are not that common on the X5M. There is a lot of confusing problems in the N63 (M-sport/regular) and S63TU (M5) that do not apply to the S63 (E70 M exclusive). The engine in the E70 X5M/X6M was unique to these cars and not shared in any other BMW. In the years I've owned mine and the 5+ years I've been reading various forums on the M's, I've only read about 3 cases of engine failure. So even in the forums which tend to amplify minor problems it hasn't been that common.

Also plenty of folks have gotten their Ms to over 120K+ miles without a major component failure.

What I will say is if you want this engine to last a long time, don't tune it. Nearly all of the catastrophic failures where either a 10th owner, or tuned. Low Temp t-stat could help with oil leaks / valve stem seals. Bearings are wrong oil / too-thick to compensate for oil leaks starving the bearings, and tuning. Leaking fuel injectors also contribute to locked engines. Romping the throttle before the oil is warmed... In general these engines are as reliable if not more so than any other high performance V8 in terms of internals. I see a lot more MOPAR and GM's with failed bearings.

With that said, the S63 has a lot of trouble spots that will need maintenance. Under hood Plastic Embrittlement, Oil Leaks, and other E70 problems. The F15 appears to be much more reliable than the E70 ever was. The E70 was built at a BMW low point for reliability, newer cars are a lot better. I will say that the E70 has been far, far more reliable than any domestic pickup I've owned.

Get an Extended Warranty on an e70 X5M and you wont regret it. Mine has covered 26K in repairs. Figure about 5-6K a year for repairs / maintenance if done at the dealer.

[My135i]

Originally Posted by pdX5M

Two things that can help with engine longevity are frequent oil changes - every 5-7k miles - as well as taking it easy until engine oil is up to operating temp. Bearing clearances are tight in these motors and those are two simple steps you can take to help keep it running well.

I've had my 2013 M for just over two years now and am still loving it. Best mix of practicality for a family/work and fun in this price bracket.

Is it bad to drive right away as soon as it starts or it's better to wait for 2 mins then drive?

[Autobacs]

Originally Posted by My135i

Is it bad to drive right away as soon as it starts or it's better to wait for 2 mins then drive?

There is nothing wrong with driving away right away (Been doing it for decades with no problems), it warms up the car more efficiently. What is important is you keep the RPM's down low (absolutely no WOT) until your engine coolant and oil reaches normal temperature.

[michaelalex3]

Originally Posted by Thecastle

I wouldn't be concerned about engine failures, they really are not that common on the X5M. There is a lot of confusing problems in the N63 (M-sport/regular) and S63TU (M5) that do not apply to the S63 (E70 M exclusive). The engine in the E70 X5M/X6M was unique to these cars and not shared in any other BMW. In the years I've owned mine and the 5+ years I've been reading various forums on the M's, I've only read about 3 cases of engine failure. So even in the forums which tend to amplify minor problems it hasn't been that common.

Also plenty of folks have gotten their Ms to over 120K+ miles without a major component failure.

What I will say is if you want this engine to last a long time, don't tune it. Nearly all of the catastrophic failures where either a 10th owner, or tuned. Low Temp t-stat could help with oil leaks / valve stem seals. Bearings are wrong oil / too-thick to compensate for oil leaks starving the bearings, and tuning. Leaking fuel injectors also contribute to locked engines. Romping the throttle before the oil is warmed... In general these engines are as reliable if not more so than any other high performance V8 in terms of internals. I see a lot more MOPAR and GM's with failed bearings.

With that said, the S63 has a lot of trouble spots that will need maintenance. Under hood Plastic Embrittlement, Oil Leaks, and other E70 problems. The F15 appears to be much more reliable than the E70 ever was. The E70 was built at a BMW low point for reliability, newer cars are a lot better. I will say that the E70 has been far, far more reliable than any domestic pickup I've owned.

Get an Extended Warranty on an e70 X5M and you wont regret it. Mine has covered 26K in repairs. Figure about 5-6K a year for repairs / maintenance if done at the dealer.

Thanks for the very informative reply! I may have to start seriously looking for an X5M soon.

I'm already used to warming up my engine before going above 3k, I have an early E90 N55, so I have to be wary of bearing failures on that. I'm not too concerned about general repairs, as I have a great indy 5 minutes from my house, and I only will drive it about 5k miles a year. I am still curious though, is your warranty a third party warranty or a BMW warranty?

I've done even more research since posting this initial thread, and it seems the 3 failure modes for this engine are bearings, oil pump failure, and leaky injectors. I know the oil pump and bearings can be replaced (at a significant cost), but I'm wondering if there's anything preventative that can be done with the injectors? Or are there any warning signs to look out for with a leaky injector?

[1er_vert]

I have 128k on my X6M and I must say the oil changes are critical. It needs a high-quality, synthetic(ester-based) 5w-40 oil, every 5-7k. Not 10 or 15k. The injectors need a PEA-based cleaning agent at ALL times(Gumout Regane/Chevron Techron). Once the injectors start pissing fuel.... its time for new ones. Stay on top of it!

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by 1er_vert

I have 128k on my X6M and I must say the oil changes are critical. It needs a high-quality, synthetic(ester-based) 5w-40 oil, every 5-7k. Not 10 or 15k. The injectors need a PEA-based cleaning agent at ALL times(Gumout Regane/Chevron Techron). Once the injectors start pissing fuel.... its time for new ones. Stay on top of it!

I second this. 170k miles on my n63 tuned to s63 power levels (engine internals like crank, rods, cams, etc, except pistons, s63 gets forged 9:1, are the same between the two engines). 5k mile 5-40 liqui moly oil changes and Chevron techron injection cleaner. Sticky injectors combined with the horribly designed CCV system tossed in with excessively long 15k mile oil changes is a recipe for premature bearing failure.

[Autobacs]

Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck

I second this. 170k miles on my n63 tuned to s63 power levels (engine internals like crank, rods, cams, etc, except pistons, s63 gets forged 9:1, are the same between the two engines). 5k mile 5-40 liqui moly oil changes and Chevron techron injection cleaner. Sticky injectors combined with the horribly designed CCV system tossed in with excessively long 15k mile oil changes is a recipe for premature bearing failure.

How often do you use TECHRON?

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by Autobacs

How often do you use TECHRON?

I usually use every 2 - 3K miles, specifically the Techron Concentrate Plus version.