N63 can't turn crank full 360 degrees. What had happened?

[Pruzina]

May 26th - Engine was running okay. That was last time car was started.

June 27th Needed transmission replacement. Transmission removed engine turned over by hand few time to remove converter bolts engine turned with expected effort nothing unusual.

July 16th fitting "new' transmission. when transmission was in place and got to the point to fit converter bolts when turning the engine it stops at one point (cylinder 3 and 5 at TDC) got over this point using breaker bar then engines spins freely until full rotation when it stops again.
I thought maybe the converter is not properly seated or something like that so I separated the transmission again (converter spins freely so the problem is not in the transmission) but the engine is stuck at that one point.

Points to note:
-Engine was turned only clockwise
-spark plugs are removed
-boroscope inspection doesn't show anything unusual inside the cylinders tho can't see clearly
-battery is disconnected the whole time. was connected few time just to move seats while removing them and reinstalling them during interior cleaning

I just can't wrap my head around what could go wrong in 3 weeks to not be able turn the engine full rotation.

[TTV8M]

Yeah that's strange, especially that you have the spark plugs out so there's no compression in the chamber

[Pruzina]

Yeah exactly. Up to that point the engine turns fairly easy with 1/2 inch ratchet. And no other work other than inspecting turbos ccv and intakes were performed.

[Pruzina]

Today I've removed valve cover bank 1.
Nothing seems out of ordinary.
Chain is pretty snug top plastic part of the guide intact.
I'm not able to rotate the engine to cylinder 1 TDC to verify correct timing with timing tool unless I rotate the engine counter clockwise which I don't want to do but just by looking at it camshafts are in correct position or near correct position.
Cylinder 3 is at TDC valves are closed. Only opened valves are at the cylinder which is at bottom position.
No visible damage to camshafts, rocker arms or anything else.
Camshaft bolts tight.

Tomorrow bank 2.

[slovakE70]

My bet would be that engine skipped timing when was rotated by hand - yes, it can happen, it happend to me when I was doing my valve stem seals. And now some piston is hitting valves.

Another thing is, correct timing on N63 is when cylinder 1 is not at TDC but I believe 150 degrees before TDC. Crankshaft timing tool shoud set this position.

[Pruzina]

Thanks to Slovakia I'm from Czech rep.

I was thinking the same. I've removed valve covers and both cylinders which are in top position at the moment have valves closed at least the camshaft position is telling me that. I have to get leak down tester and test compression to check if the valve are really closed.

But something is up for sure. Bank 2 has broken plastic part of the top chain guide so now the chain has slack and skipped right the way after I applied pressure on crank bolt. Question is if the chain is stretched or if it's only the guide issue.

But that didn't solved my problem engine is still locked. Only logical next step is pressure test each cylinder.

[slovakE70]

Originally Posted by Pruzina

Thanks to Slovakia I'm from Czech rep.

I was thinking the same. I've removed valve covers and both cylinders which are in top position at the moment have valves closed at least the camshaft position is telling me that. I have to get leak down tester and test compression to check if the valve are really closed.

But something is up for sure. Bank 2 has broken plastic part of the top chain guide so now the chain has slack and skipped right the way after I applied pressure on crank bolt. Question is if the chain is stretched or if it's only the guide issue.

But that didn't solved my problem engine is still locked. Only logical next step is pressure test each cylinder.

Pozdravujem do CZ, myslel som ze som tu jediny zo Sk/cz

I will be writing in English so others can understand.

yes, do leak down test on all cylinders, at least you will know if you losing compression somewhere or not.
These chain guides are weak point and I saw a lot of N63/S63s online with broken guides.
There's a way to check for chain stretch with ISTA bmw diagnositic, but engine has to be running. But I think it can be checked another way, I'll explain later.

You have timing tools, right ?
At this point you can remove all camshafts (you already there if you have valve covers of) which makes all the valves closed and then you can try to rotate the engine. At this point you can rotate engine even counterclockwise. Just be careful with the chains.

there's possibility that 1 timing chain link got bent (kinked, got stiff) when chain was loose and it stuck on crankshaft sprocket - thats why you can't rotate the engine. Ask me how I know this can happen, lol.

After you get the engine to rotate, you set correct timing with tools, remove the tools, rotate the engine 720 degrees, put the tools back and IF the camshafts tools will be sitting correctly on the cylinder heads without any gap (check with feeler gauge), then chain is probably not stretched. Any small gap would indicate chain stretch.

Good luck

[Pruzina]

You are definitely not alone but I live in California right now.

Yeah I know about all the N63 problems specially the timing which has the most severe consequences. I already did one job on 750i so I have the timing tool. In that case the top guide was broken as well and plus I had to replace one camshaft sprocket which was actually the reason I was in the in the first place. I was getting vanos codes no matter what I did. Sprocket fixed it.

I know about the chain stretch test in ISTA but that's obviously out of picture right now. The whole job started just by replacing transmission and here we are.

I definitely want to try everything possible with engine in the car. Pulling the engine out is last thing I'd like to do. Transmission job ending with engine out is not good outcome

I'll start by working on bank 2 which seems like the side where the problem is. Bank 1 has tight chain and looks fine.

I'll go buy leak down tester that's the only tool missing.

[Pruzina]

I guess I'm screwed.
This is how you end up when you think you know what you're doing but end up screwing up big time.

The question is what now. Burn it down, push off the cliff or really attempt to rebuild it.

After reading posts from Sophisticated Redneck pulling heads inside the car doesn't sounds like a good idea feel like I may loose my $hit. But pulling engine without lift doesn't sounds much better.
I may even part it out. I'm honestly so disappointed in myself how could I screw up like that. Sometimes is really better to use brain not muscles.

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by Pruzina

I guess I'm screwed.
This is how you end up when you think you know what you're doing but end up screwing up big time.

The question is what now. Burn it down, push off the cliff or really attempt to rebuild it.

After reading posts from Sophisticated Redneck pulling heads inside the car doesn't sounds like a good idea feel like I may loose my $hit. But pulling engine without lift doesn't sounds much better.
I may even part it out. I'm honestly so disappointed in myself how could I screw up like that. Sometimes is really better to use brain not muscles.

Definitely don't recommend pulling the heads with engine still in. Ends up taking much more time and effort then just pulling the engine I learned.

Others have pulled theirs without a car lift though so it is possible.

Before you go that far though I would pick up a bore scope with a dual or triple lens on it. One of the best investments I ever made. Allows you to look at the valves, with that high of leakdown at just 20psi, I would be highly suspect you have some valves stuck open on some debris. Would explain why engine hits a hard stop too.

[Pruzina]

You're right. After I read your posts sounds like big pinta.
I do have quickjacks but that's not gonna help much.

Just have to decide if go ahead and do it or just part the car. It has high milage so I would probably have to do bearings and chain as well which will cost some money. Plus cherry picker engine stand etc.

I do have cheap boroscope but I can't see $hit there. Probably need something better.

I'm pretty sure the cylinders around 20 psi is just carbon or some debris.

Everything there is just disaster.

This is how injectors and bores looked like. That's crazy.

[TTV8M]

4 or 5 wooden pallets and a pallet jack, you can find a decent and cheap pallet jack online. That's how I'm dropping my motor n trans. Ur gonna need a lot of patience if your gonna do it. Watch a bunch of YouTube vids, plenty of people dropped their n63 s63s

Originally Posted by Pruzina

I guess I'm screwed.
This is how you end up when you think you know what you're doing but end up screwing up big time.

The question is what now. Burn it down, push off the cliff or really attempt to rebuild it.

After reading posts from Sophisticated Redneck pulling heads inside the car doesn't sounds like a good idea feel like I may loose my $hit. But pulling engine without lift doesn't sounds much better.
I may even part it out. I'm honestly so disappointed in myself how could I screw up like that. Sometimes is really better to use brain not muscles.

[Pruzina]

Thanks for all advices guys.

I don't think dropping engine is happening in my garage. There's just no space for pallets and steer the engine out of the bay.
See pictures.


Transmission is out of the car anyway so at least one problem out of the picture.

I've watched some videos already how to pull engine and looks like my only chance is pull it out top. Even then it's gonna be tight.
I could do it outside next to my house but don't feel like do this kind of job outside.

This had to happened when I was about to address Christmas tree on my second car :

[TTV8M]

Yeh I see what you mean, sorry, not much room.

[TwinSnailz]

Back it up close to the garage door and you have more space than my garage when i got my engine out/in. I bought a harbor freight engine hoist and a leveler because you need to tilt the engine in at least 45 degree angle. The side of the heads will touch the side frame if you go in straight.
I did it all by myself with a lot of tugging and cussing 🤬 to bmw engineer. Beats paying $8k or more. Usually i would end up with extra nuts and bolts here and there. But i was so focused and took my time i had zero left over. This was a whole rebuild.

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by Pruzina

Thanks for all advices guys.

I don't think dropping engine is happening in my garage. There's just no space for pallets and steer the engine out of the bay.
See pictures.


Transmission is out of the car anyway so at least one problem out of the picture.

I've watched some videos already how to pull engine and looks like my only chance is pull it out top. Even then it's gonna be tight.
I could do it outside next to my house but don't feel like do this kind of job outside.

This had to happened when I was about to address Christmas tree on my second car :

I agree with Twin and just yank that sucker out. With the transmission out and everything you had to remove to get the valve covers off, you are 70% there anyway. BMW was nice enough to leave two engine points to chain it to the cherry picker. Plus it will give you a chance to get brushed up on all the latest profanity out there today.

I would knock out the valve stem seals while its out, and if you really want to go deeper, pop the heads and cleanup all the carbon and lap the valves if they need it. Looks like you only have 90K on yours, I have 180k on mine now and did the top end refresh at 130k. It's tuned and modded and I beat the piss out of it every day. Even after a decade and 180k miles later, its only a few tenths of second slower then a brand new 140k G05 X5M so again with only 90k on the clock, you can easily get another 100K out of the engine with just a top end refresh (valve stem seals, carbon cleanup). Recommend you use LM MoS2 additive also.

With all the said, I would still grab yourself the borescope with the 90 degree camera on it so you can see the condition of your valves and bores as still a chance it could be some debris caught in one of those 32 valves. I use a Teslong similar to below and having that 90 degree camera is worth every penny.

https://www.amazon.com/Teslong-Indus.../dp/B09PTR9S5W

[Pruzina]

Originally Posted by TwinSnailz

Back it up close to the garage door and you have more space than my garage when i got my engine out/in. I bought a harbor freight engine hoist and a leveler because you need to tilt the engine in at least 45 degree angle. The side of the heads will touch the side frame if you go in straight.
I did it all by myself with a lot of tugging and cussing 🤬 to bmw engineer. Beats paying $8k or more. Usually i would end up with extra nuts and bolts here and there. But i was so focused and took my time i had zero left over. This was a whole rebuild.

Yes that's exactly what I had in mind.
How bad was it?
I've seen it in few YouTube videos and it didn't look impossible.

But then other members here saying only drop it only drop it.

[Pruzina]

Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck

I agree with Twin and just yank that sucker out. With the transmission out and everything you had to remove to get the valve covers off, you are 70% there anyway. BMW was nice enough to leave two engine points to chain it to the cherry picker. Plus it will give you a chance to get brushed up on all the latest profanity out there today.

I would knock out the valve stem seals while its out, and if you really want to go deeper, pop the heads and cleanup all the carbon and lap the valves if they need it. Looks like you only have 90K on yours, I have 180k on mine now and did the top end refresh at 130k. It's tuned and modded and I beat the piss out of it every day. Even after a decade and 180k miles later, its only a few tenths of second slower then a brand new 140k G05 X5M so again with only 90k on the clock, you can easily get another 100K out of the engine with just a top end refresh (valve stem seals, carbon cleanup). Recommend you use LM MoS2 additive also.

With all the said, I would still grab yourself the borescope with the 90 degree camera on it so you can see the condition of your valves and bores as still a chance it could be some debris caught in one of those 32 valves. I use a Teslong similar to below and having that 90 degree camera is worth every penny.

https://www.amazon.com/Teslong-Indus.../dp/B09PTR9S5W

Right? That's what I'm thinking. Especially with the tranny already out of the car I don't think I'm far from pulling it out.

I would definitely like to stay on budget as I bought the car as a "cheap" second car basically work truck to tow, haul car parts and $hit. What scares me is that I've never driven the car more than 30ft. So I have no idea what else the engine may need. And if I go valve stems, chain, bearings, turbo lines, coolant lines I'll be in crazy numbers.

I'm pretty sure there are bent valves at least on cylinder 5. I would definitely at least blast the other valves.

I'm sorry I confused you with the last picture. The picture of the Christmas dash is my M6 which needs thermostat, idle actuator, DSC pump. I'll be doing some of that tomorrow.

[Pruzina]

Little update everything is sort of ready to pull the sucker out but I can't get the CV axles out. That is so far the biggest problem.

[TwinSnailz]

Did you remove the lower ball joint?
I just remove the passenger side axle and left the diff and driver side axle intact. Just unbolt the diff from the side of the oil pan. You would need a long 18mm box end wrench because you will see no socket will fit.

[Pruzina]

No I disconnected both control arms on subframe side as it was easier I left tierod still connected. it's enough play in there to remove the axle but it's seized in the spindle I did not try to push it out of the differential yet.

I don't understand what you mean by unbolting diff from oil pan how does that help me to remove both axles?

[TwinSnailz]

Meaning you detached the front differential from the engine and leaving it on the car so you don’t have to remove the driver side axle. Just remove the passenger side axle , because it goes through the engine oil pan. Just saving you some time.