E70 X5M - help diagnose misfire issue

[askjeeves]

I could use some help diagnosing an issue I am having with my X5M misfiring. I haven't had any luck trying to figure this out myself, and am not getting an codes that leads me to an obvious issue. This will be long in the interest of including as much detail as possible.

Background: It is a 2012 X5M with about 72k miles. I've had it for a couple years and since 47k miles.

Both driver and passenger side vent tubes were broken. I replaced the driver side a while back. And decided to replace the passenger side on Saturday. No misfiring prior to changing it, but I knew if i wiggled it around a vacuum leak was obvious. After replacing the passenger side on Saturday, it seemed alright during the cold start, but as revs dropped to normal it starts misfiring. Seems to drive alright once moving, but I assume that it is running a couple cylinders down.

During the vent pipe replacement, I had unplugged and pulled out the coil pack on Cylinder 1. And also pried up a little on the wire distribution thing with all the cables going to coil packs just using my hand/lightly.

Codes I'm getting consistently:
Misfires on cylinder 1 and 4, and sometimes cylinder 3 will come up.
002F24 - Charge air cooling, energy operation

also have had come up:
002D2E - throttle angle, manifold vacuum...
002E18 - Ignition cylinder 1
002C2D / 002C2E - Lamda probe upstream of the cat

What I've tried/checked -
-Made sure the vent pipe is properly connected on both ends
-made sure cylinder 1 coil pack is properly seated and electrical harness connected
-swapped cylinder 1 and 2 coil pack (problem stayed on cyl 1)
-swapped new coil pack in cylinder 1 (bosch oe per advance auto parts)
made sure there is voltage going to coil packs (checked a few easily reachable - 1/2/5)
-checked resistance of coil packs 1/2/5/and the new one i bought - not sure what it's supposed to read but all were consistent around 1.6
-wiggled around and sprayed carb cleaner on filtered air ducts and around misc. vacuum lines near the passenger side vent pipe
-checked fuel trim - not really sure what the numbers mean but
at idle it was ST~-3% LT~-19%
and while cruising it was ST~+1% LT~-3.5%


and, so far no improvement. really trying to get this sorted in the next couple days since I am supposed to be heading to the track this weekend and tow with the x5.

I greatly appreciate any help/ideas/etc!!!

[Sophisticated Redneck]

start eliminating the variables in a systematic way: start with the most likely culprits and work your way up. Also when it comes to coil packs and plugs, replace them all. If one fails rest is soon to follow.

Step 1- Replace all CCV tubes and connections including crossover pipe. It's the only way to be sure you don't have a vacuum leak as those corrigated plastic lines are impossibe to see hairline cracks. You can also get a Bluetooth ob2 adapter and run the torque app and read your idle vaccum. If your not at 18+ inches at idle, you most definitely have a leak..however small leaks that could still cause a misfire will be harder to detect so best just replace them all.
Step 2 - Replace All Spark plugs
Step 3 - Replace All Ignition coils
Step 4- Replace All Injectors

I have nearly 150k now on mine. I have an N63 however it's so close to the S63 this will apply to all M owners too. Ive been through it all, misfire codes starting with the CCV lines, then caused by the plugs, then the coil packs and now finally it appears my injectors as after running perfect for the last 20k, I have a strange "stumble misfire" that isn't giving any codes but you can feel it in acceleration. Assuming it's the injectors as everything else is new and with 150k on the clock is where the injectors seem to check out. Got them for 220 each from FCP which is a really good deal if you have to go that route. Index 12 of course.

[jandref321]

Maybe take off the plastics and take pictures to post of connections at the CCV hose on top, the connection of the O2 sensors, and picture of the charge pipes/Diverter valves. When I replaced the passenger side I also had to pull up on the wiring which made me a bit nervous...any way you damaged the wiring? That same harness runs to the throttle, ignition, and O2 sensors...plus everything else on that bank. Check all the connections nearby your work.

[askjeeves]

Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck

start eliminating the variables in a systematic way: start with the most likely culprits and work your way up. Also when it comes to coil packs and plugs, replace them all. If one fails rest is soon to follow.

Thank you. I have a BT scanner and the Carly app so will try to see if there is a parameter for vacuum that I can log. Trying to get away with not changing all coils and all spark plugs for now just since I am short on time. Will swap the plug on cylinder 1 and see if the misfire in that cylinder goes away or else see if there is fuel on the plug.

Originally Posted by jandref321

Maybe take off the plastics and take pictures to post of connections at the CCV hose on top, the connection of the O2 sensors, and picture of the charge pipes/Diverter valves. When I replaced the passenger side I also had to pull up on the wiring which made me a bit nervous...any way you damaged the wiring? That same harness runs to the throttle, ignition, and O2 sensors...plus everything else on that bank. Check all the connections nearby your work.

I really hope it's not the wiring! It was pulled up fairly gently. Hopefully it's made to deal with the heat better than the plastic vac lines. But man the codes are for throttle, ignition, and O2 sensors.


I checked with my Service Advisor that I used to deal with and he said the fuel injectors are covered with warranty, but seems too coincidental that I'd have an injector/s go bad right when doing the vent pipe.

[askjeeves]

Some pictures. Cylinder 1 spark plug. Replaced with a new one now. Plus diverter valves and passenger side vent tube top connection point.

The spark plug didn't seem to smell of fuel.

[askjeeves]

The rats nest..

[askjeeves]

Replaced cylinder 1 spark plug. Still getting misfire codes for that cylinder (and also 4 and 5. 4 has been consistent. 5 had come up before too but when I had unplugged it while running I think). So for cylinder 1 doesn't seem to be an issue of coil pack or spark plug. Guess I'll take it in to the dealer tomorrow to check the injectors. Service history shows they were checked Feb 2016 and were the latest version at that time.

Still need to figure out the correct parameter for vacuum reading in Carly BMW app.

[greddy91]

Check this...

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...o/13907619305/

Exact same symptoms and found that the passenger side connector on the intake manifold, deeply hidden behind a cooling hose and only reachable by carnival freaks, was no longer on the hose at all. I pinned it back in with some awkward rigging, but replacement is necessary.

Not saying this is certainly it, because it seems like most any vacuum leak looks similar to this.

EDIT: This code "002D2E - throttle angle, manifold vacuum" was exclusive to this leak. None of my other leaks have reflected manifold pressure, that's a big factor in why I'm suggesting this.

[askjeeves]

Originally Posted by greddy91

Check this...

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...o/13907619305/

Exact same symptoms and found that the passenger side connector on the intake manifold, deeply hidden behind a cooling hose and only reachable by carnival freaks, was no longer on the hose at all. I pinned it back in with some awkward rigging, but replacement is necessary.

Not saying this is certainly it, because it seems like most any vacuum leak looks similar to this.

EDIT: This code "002D2E - throttle angle, manifold vacuum" was exclusive to this leak. None of my other leaks have reflected manifold pressure, that's a big factor in why I'm suggesting this.

Thanks for the suggestion. I did move that out of the way so maybe I pulled out the bottom. Did you have to move anything particular out of the way to reach the bottom end of the hose?

[greddy91]

Originally Posted by askjeeves

Thanks for the suggestion. I did move that out of the way so maybe I pulled out the bottom. Did you have to move anything particular out of the way to reach the bottom end of the hose?

It's in the worst possible spot. Passenger side behind a cooling hose. You can see it from the underside if you remove the plate and use a scope in the exact correct gap between accessories.

I would skip that though...

Instead, remove the aluminum support brace from in front of the motor, wrap your arm in two layers of clothing so you don't get your arm binding and pinching between the fan shroud and intake/alternator. Stick your arm in, put your fingers on the bottom of the coolant hose, and then up in a J form. This should allow you to touch it and feel if it's hanging loose.

[greddy91]

Oooohhh another thing that just dawned on me as a symptom that was different on this than before. Brake surging. While started and running like crap, if you were to begin rolling and apply the brakes, are you having to really beat on them to keep the car from moving?

This particular leak impacted the braking ability where others have not.

[askjeeves]

Originally Posted by greddy91

Oooohhh another thing that just dawned on me as a symptom that was different on this than before. Brake surging. While started and running like crap, if you were to begin rolling and apply the brakes, are you having to really beat on them to keep the car from moving?

This particular leak impacted the braking ability where others have not.

thanks again for the info. it really is a pain to try and reach that end of the hose. just as you said, last week i pulled off the support bar and tried to get my hand down there to feel it out but couldn't. i also didn't realize it curved down again though so was maybe checking the wrong direction.

I ended up dropped the car off at the dealer last week to check the injectors since i was going to be gone for the weekend anyway. still no word from them.

I do also have the surging. The car would want to lurch forward if I wasn't careful to be on the brakes with more force than normally necessary. symptoms seems to all match up with yours. so if injectors doesn't fix it i'll focus on that. it's easy enough to pull the fan out so i'll pull that out to get some extra space.

will post the result for future reference.

[eDubz]

Originally Posted by greddy91

Check this...

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...o/13907619305/

Exact same symptoms and found that the passenger side connector on the intake manifold, deeply hidden behind a cooling hose and only reachable by carnival freaks, was no longer on the hose at all. I pinned it back in with some awkward rigging, but replacement is necessary.

Not saying this is certainly it, because it seems like most any vacuum leak looks similar to this.

EDIT: This code "002D2E - throttle angle, manifold vacuum" was exclusive to this leak. None of my other leaks have reflected manifold pressure, that's a big factor in why I'm suggesting this.

I got 002D2E with rough idle/misfires and the Stealership replaced my crankcase breathers. I've had no issues over the last few hundred miles since replacement, so I'm l optimistic it's resolved.

[askjeeves]

I'm back. My car sat at the dealership for 3 weeks. It already had index 12 injectors, so they had to get permission to replace injectors again. They only replaced bank 1 injectors based on the misfire codes. Car is still the same as before though.

Managed to get an eye in the bottom connector of the fuel vent line and it appears to be solidly connected. Playing around with the line doesn't display any obvious vacuum leak. All that said, I don't seem to notice any difference in how the car runs with the electrical connector for the fuel vent canister (or whatever that's called) whether it's connected or not.

Next step in my mind is replacing all spark plugs and coil packs. And will smoke test it to see if there are any leaks that aren't obvious.

Any suggestion for the smoke test? Is it fine to just hook up to the intake tubes? Or are there any check valves along the way that would prevent smoke from passing through?

Any other suggestions welcome. Next track event is in 3 weeks and hopefully I'm not stuck renting a uhaul again.

[askjeeves]

to update-
I replaced all coil packs and spark plugs. no longer getting misfire codes. car would start up and seem fine during cold start. and then will settle down and idle fine for about a minute. and then something kicks in and it becomes a bit rough again. but no longer has big surges or is as rough as before.

then I replaced the filtered air ducts. both had failed check valves and were seeping a bit of oil. still having the same issue where it is fine during cold start and about a minute after, but then is a little bit off at idle. seems perfect while cruising. Long term fuel trim numbers are very high (low) ~-20%.

Is it possible the car had adjusted to having vacuum leaks and just needs time to adjust back so LTFT numbers get back to normal? Is there a LTFT adaptation reset possible?

only codes now are mixture control. sounds like there might be a small vacuum leak from somewhere still, but can't pin point it. not sure if what i'm hearing is just a normal sound. I need to go back and read vacuum idle as suggested.

[0-60Motorsports]

Im having misfire issue as well. Its during cold start in the morning, Repalced coils on yl 2 and 3 and then 1 and then all of them. Plugs are perfect with around 6k miles on them. Replaced top vacum hose as it was broken. have the two side ones and will replace those as well.

I get a CEL and misfiring on Cold starts. Cant figure it out so cars going into the shop for 4-5 days while i'll be travelling to get a proper diagnosis done and they will replace the left and right side hoses while doing the diagnostics.

[RickM5x3]

Originally Posted by 0-60Motorsports

Im having misfire issue as well. Its during cold start in the morning, Repalced coils on yl 2 and 3 and then 1 and then all of them. Plugs are perfect with around 6k miles on them. Replaced top vacum hose as it was broken. have the two side ones and will replace those as well.

I get a CEL and misfiring on Cold starts. Cant figure it out so cars going into the shop for 4-5 days while i'll be travelling to get a proper diagnosis done and they will replace the left and right side hoses while doing the diagnostics.

Your crankcase vent pipes, left and right, should be covered under warranty at the dealer if they are leaking/cracked. I had mine done 4 1/2 years ago on my 2011, and just had them replaced again last week under a 10 year/120k mile extended parts warranty that BMW puts on these bits.

[0-60Motorsports]

Originally Posted by RickM5x3

Your crankcase vent pipes, left and right, should be covered under warranty at the dealer if they are leaking/cracked. I had mine done 4 1/2 years ago on my 2011, and just had them replaced again last week under a 10 year/120k mile extended parts warranty that BMW puts on these bits.

Actually injectors 1 and 7 are leaking. Ordered new updated ones.

[billowusu]

Originally Posted by askjeeves

I could use some help diagnosing an issue I am having with my X5M misfiring. I haven't had any luck trying to figure this out myself, and am not getting an codes that leads me to an obvious issue. This will be long in the interest of including as much detail as possible.

Background: It is a 2012 X5M with about 72k miles. I've had it for a couple years and since 47k miles.

Both driver and passenger side vent tubes were broken. I replaced the driver side a while back. And decided to replace the passenger side on Saturday. No misfiring prior to changing it, but I knew if i wiggled it around a vacuum leak was obvious. After replacing the passenger side on Saturday, it seemed alright during the cold start, but as revs dropped to normal it starts misfiring. Seems to drive alright once moving, but I assume that it is running a couple cylinders down.

During the vent pipe replacement, I had unplugged and pulled out the coil pack on Cylinder 1. And also pried up a little on the wire distribution thing with all the cables going to coil packs just using my hand/lightly.

Codes I'm getting consistently:
Misfires on cylinder 1 and 4, and sometimes cylinder 3 will come up.
002F24 - Charge air cooling, energy operation

also have had come up:
002D2E - throttle angle, manifold vacuum...
002E18 - Ignition cylinder 1
002C2D / 002C2E - Lamda probe upstream of the cat

What I've tried/checked -
-Made sure the vent pipe is properly connected on both ends
-made sure cylinder 1 coil pack is properly seated and electrical harness connected
-swapped cylinder 1 and 2 coil pack (problem stayed on cyl 1)
-swapped new coil pack in cylinder 1 (bosch oe per advance auto parts)
made sure there is voltage going to coil packs (checked a few easily reachable - 1/2/5)
-checked resistance of coil packs 1/2/5/and the new one i bought - not sure what it's supposed to read but all were consistent around 1.6
-wiggled around and sprayed carb cleaner on filtered air ducts and around misc. vacuum lines near the passenger side vent pipe
-checked fuel trim - not really sure what the numbers mean but
at idle it was ST~-3% LT~-19%
and while cruising it was ST~+1% LT~-3.5%


and, so far no improvement. really trying to get this sorted in the next couple days since I am supposed to be heading to the track this weekend and tow with the x5.

I greatly appreciate any help/ideas/etc!!!

Did you solve the issue? I’m having the same problem. Really driving me crazy.

[askjeeves]

Originally Posted by billowusu

Did you solve the issue? I’m having the same problem. Really driving me crazy.

My guess was fuel trims had adjusted to there being a vacuum leak by adding fuel. And after replacing the leaking lines the car was giving too much fuel. After driving around for a week or so car went back to normal. I'd check the fuel trims when driving and could see them getting back to normal numbers. I never figured out if there is a way to reset that adaptation with ista or inpa.

[billowusu]

Originally Posted by askjeeves

My guess was fuel trims had adjusted to there being a vacuum leak by adding fuel. And after replacing the leaking lines the car was giving too much fuel. After driving around for a week or so car went back to normal. I'd check the fuel trims when driving and could see them getting back to normal numbers. I never figured out if there is a way to reset that adaptation with ista or inpa.

Leaking lines as in ccv lines? Did you replace the fuel purge line as well? Thanks for responding lol. Means alot.

[askjeeves]

Originally Posted by billowusu

Leaking lines as in ccv lines? Did you replace the fuel purge line as well? Thanks for responding lol. Means alot.

I replaced the two side engine vent pipe/ccv hoses and the filtered air ducts only.