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      05-25-2020, 09:47 AM   #23
argento
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The SIIG cable was completely random, it was available immediately at the local Fry's. Later I purchased a 'higher end' (aka more expensive) Monster aux cable, intending to swap, but I never did. Although I'm using the Monster cable now and as I reported the aux output is pretty good...unlikely due to the monster cable, more likely due to the new monitor.

I haven't given up. I have an OPPO HA2 DAC and I'm going to see what happens when that's inline.

I also plan to check out USB HOST CHECK and USB Audio Player Pro, per Audioquest:

https://www.audioquest.com/page/aq-d...eries-faq.html

Can I use DragonFly with Android devices?
Yes. DragonFly Black, Red, and Cobalt will work with most Android devices running on Lollipop OS (and some Android devices running on KitKat), provided that the device manufacturer has adhered to the USB specification and implementation, and supports audio over USB.

To verify that your Android device complies with asynchronous USB audio, download and run USB Host Check.

In our early pre-production testing, we found that some Android devices (4.1 OS and newer) do not provide native support for audio over USB. If you find that your Android device (4.1 or newer) does not support audio over USB, we ask that you please contact the manufacturer of your device. To determine whether your device supports audio over USB, consult the user manual or visit the manufacturer’s website.

Despite Android’s support of USB audio output, there are still hardware manufacturers that do not completely adhere to the USB audio class specification. If you experience this, we recommend the USB Audio Player Pro application.

UAPP includes its own USB audio device driver that is compliant with the USB Organization’s USB Audio Host Mode Class specification. Further, it is compatible with various audio formats and will manage music on both the Android’s internal memory and inserted SD cards. With the phone connected to the Wi-Fi network, this application can also find and connect to DLNA servers/libraries. USB Audio Player PRO Version 5 now supports audio from Google Music, Tidal (including Tidal Masters), Qobuz, and Shoutcast, and includes an MQA Core Decoder, which will unfold MQA streams from 44.1/48kHz to 88.2/96 kHz and can be combined with DragonFly for further unfolding of even higher sample rates.


What is asynchronous USB?

Digital audio is stored in computers and delivered to DragonFly as 1s and 0s.

Contrary to common belief, making beautiful music out of 1s and 0s isn’t a case of simply getting all of the audio data from Point A to Point B. In order to successfully reconstruct the analog waveform, it’s crucial that subtle digital timing relationships are carefully maintained. Timing errors such as “jitter” have long plagued digital audio playback, and never more so than in recent years, as computers have been pressed into service as audio source components.

DragonFly uses a very sophisticated “asynchronous” USB audio data transfer protocol. Rather than sharing crucial audio “data clocking” functions with the computer, DragonFly alone, using asynchronous USB transfer, commands the timing of the audio data transfer, dramatically reducing digital timing errors.

DragonFly’s StreamlengthTM asynchronous USB code ensures low jitter, low resource load, minimal packet errors, world-class audio playback, and reliable connectivity between our DAC and any computing device compliant with USB Host Mode (as set forth by the USB Organization). Streamlength requires no additional drivers, making DragonFly virtually plug-and-play for Apple, Windows, iOS, and Android users.
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      05-25-2020, 03:24 PM   #24
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Good news, I was able to get this DAC configuration to work with music in a USB storage device and/or uploaded to the Android Monitor. The solution is to pay $8 and upload USB AUDIO PLAYER PRO (UAPP) from Google Play (requires you to setup your google account first).

First impression: I couldn't believe this was sound from my OEM Aux Input.

Gone is the crazy hiss and whining noise with some unrecognizable music in the background using the USB/EXTENSION/JITTERBUG/DAC>OEM AUX INPUT. The sound is now comparable to the oem side, but I'd give the oem side the nod right now. When paused I can still hear a faint hiss, which you can decrease by reducing oem aux input volume, but then note you're volume is not sync'd on both sides (oem/android). Even so, it's a huge improvement. AND there are still PLENTY of settings to adjust yet within UAPP. I'm really impressed by the levers UAPP offers to provide hifi music. There are tweeks you can select to clean up the sound, so I expect this to improve. This is significant enough that I can envision myself staying on the android side more often.

From what I can tell, the UAPP is the central player, grabbing your music files from the android monitor MUSIC folder (OR USB or SD) playing them, and sending the audio directly to the DAC and then on to the OEM Aux input. The android monitor does not need to talk to your DAC and that's good since they're incompatible.

Clarification, I'm using UAPP to allow me to use the Dragonfly Red DAC I already have in hand. I'm sure it's possible to find a DAC that is supported by the Android Monitor, however that involves more iterative research. Get a DAC that is compatible with UAPP (http://www.extreamsd.com/index.php/hires-audio-driver) and you should be good to go.

UAPP also works with UPnP Servers. Right now I use JPLAY on my cpu, but I guess I could add that app to the android monitor and possibly improve the sound a bit more...maybe.

With all this said, sound is SUBJECTIVE to each individual. In my driving world, the oem sound is enjoyable and if I can get the android monitor close to OEM with volumes sync'd I'm happy.

NOTE: The first time I used the USB thumb drive I had, it played a little bit then shutoff. It then would not recognize the USB drive b/c it was not FAT32 compatible. It gives you a quick notification that disappears. Take it back to your CPU, in windows explorer right click on the usb drive and select FORMAT, select FAT32, done. Everything will be erased, so make sure you backup anything you have on there. It works now.

ALSO, I HAVE NOT CHECKED ANY OTHER SOUND SOURCES, IE: PHONE, VIDEO, ETC.

UPDATE, not working with CARPLAY...as of yet...I'm gong to try an Aux Splitter...???
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      05-25-2020, 05:28 PM   #25
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I have never used the Aux in my vehicle... why is it such a big thing... either way, once my new unit is in... I would have thought that given they note all original factory functions are retained...why does that not seem to include the aux....I’m still waiting for delivery...
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      05-25-2020, 06:33 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbofraggins View Post
I have never used the Aux in my vehicle... why is it such a big thing... either way, once my new unit is in... I would have thought that given they note all original factory functions are retained...why does that not seem to include the aux....I’m still waiting for delivery...
It would be ideal that you wouldn't need to use the Aux In and everything I wrote would be moot. I'm not sure why some systems need Aux and others don't. Do you have rear entertainment option?

If you're one that needs to use Aux In, then you're familiar with the poor quality (again subjective, much less than OEM INDIVIDUAL) of sound output by the Android Monitor, at least certain versions.
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      05-25-2020, 09:36 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by argento View Post
It would be ideal that you wouldn't need to use the Aux In and everything I wrote would be moot. I'm not sure why some systems need Aux and others don't. Do you have rear entertainment option?

If you're one that needs to use Aux In, then you're familiar with the poor quality (again subjective, much less than OEM INDIVIDUAL) of sound output by the Android Monitor, at least certain versions.
Any idea which cars / bmw packages work without needing the aux?
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      05-25-2020, 10:12 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jvirgi View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by argento View Post
It would be ideal that you wouldn't need to use the Aux In and everything I wrote would be moot. I'm not sure why some systems need Aux and others don't. Do you have rear entertainment option?

If you're one that needs to use Aux In, then you're familiar with the poor quality (again subjective, much less than OEM INDIVIDUAL) of sound output by the Android Monitor, at least certain versions.
Any idea which cars / bmw packages work without needing the aux?
@Bilbofraggins IF you don't need aux in for your install, please take a pic of your radio connector so we can see what pins you have to compare to ours that don't. Maybe we can tie it to something....

Also image of socket on the back of the radio (aka: car info computer)...

A theory...I can see the possibility of those with rear entertainment system not needing AUX IN. I checked out the wiring schematics and there are two types of AUX INPUT in our BMWs, each located in the same spot, center armrest. One AUX IN without Rear Seat Entertainment (RSE) option is 3 or 4-pin and is wired directly into the Car Information Computer (radio) in the dash. Another AUX IN with RSE option is 6-pin where 3 pins are wired to the Car Information Computer and 3 pins are wired to the RSE DVD. From there, the RSE DVD player connects to a headset connection module in the trunk where all the other SSP options (satellite, hud, ulf, cd/dvd changer, tuner, etc) arrive and are connected back to the Car Information Computer via optical cables. Which I believe means (since I've never had that option) you can pipe the DVD Rear Audio through the Car Info Computer and then OEM Speakers. FWIW.
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      05-27-2020, 09:58 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by argento View Post
A theory...I can see the possibility of those with rear entertainment system not needing AUX IN. I checked out the wiring schematics and there are two types of AUX INPUT in our BMWs, each located in the same spot, center armrest. One AUX IN without Rear Seat Entertainment (RSE) option is 3 or 4-pin and is wired directly into the Car Information Computer (radio) in the dash. Another AUX IN with RSE option is 6-pin where 3 pins are wired to the Car Information Computer and 3 pins are wired to the RSE DVD. From there, the RSE DVD player connects to a headset connection module in the trunk where all the other SSP options (satellite, hud, ulf, cd/dvd changer, tuner, etc) arrive and are connected back to the Car Information Computer via optical cables. Which I believe means (since I've never had that option) you can pipe the DVD Rear Audio through the Car Info Computer and then OEM Speakers. FWIW.
My kit is on order so guessing I’ve got a few weeks to wait. My car has the top hifi amp in the trunk, so I’ll be interested if that makes a difference if the aux is needed. Given the 3 different sound systems (standard no amp, premium with hifi amp, and the enhanced with top hifi amp), I was guessing the need to use the aux in could be dependent on which of these 3 systems you have? I’m wondering if setups with the amps can use the head units without the aux?

Last edited by Aferanova; 05-27-2020 at 09:59 PM.. Reason: Typo
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      05-27-2020, 10:53 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jvirgi View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by argento View Post
A theory...I can see the possibility of those with rear entertainment system not needing AUX IN. I checked out the wiring schematics and there are two types of AUX INPUT in our BMWs, each located in the same spot, center armrest. One AUX IN without Rear Seat Entertainment (RSE) option is 3 or 4-pin and is wired directly into the Car Information Computer (radio) in the dash. Another AUX IN with RSE option is 6-pin where 3 pins are wired to the Car Information Computer and 3 pins are wired to the RSE DVD. From there, the RSE DVD player connects to a headset connection module in the trunk where all the other SSP options (satellite, hud, ulf, cd/dvd changer, tuner, etc) arrive and are connected back to the Car Information Computer via optical cables. Which I believe means (since I've never had that option) you can pipe the DVD Rear Audio through the Car Info Computer and then OEM Speakers. FWIW.
My kit is on order so guessing I’ve got a few weeks to wait. My car has the top hifi amp in the trunk, so I’ll be interested if that makes a difference if the aux is needed. Given the 3 different sound systems (standard no amp, premium with hifi amp, and the enhanced with top hifi amp), I was guessing the need to use the aux in could be dependent on which of these 3 systems you have? I’m wondering if setups with the amps can use the head units without the aux?
I have the S752A system, enhanced option package, May 2013 build X5M, and no sound, I have to use the OEM AUX IN.

Truly hope it works for you. Let us know.
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      05-27-2020, 11:23 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by argento View Post
I have the ZPS system, enhanced option package, May 2013 build X5M, and no sound, I have to use the OEM AUX IN.

Truly hope it works for you. Let us know.
I did not need the aux input on my 2007 CCC.

S645A - BMW US Radio
S655A - Satellite tuner
S663A - Radio BMW Professional
S672A - CD changer for 6 CDs
S677AHiFi - System Professional DSP

It might also be able to tell from the aux input. IIRC, If it doesn't have USB then it likely doesn't need the AUX connection.

My e90 with logic7 did need the aux input. I cut off a female aux cable and soldered it into the back side of the aux input and then connected an aux cable between it and the Android unit. I did buy a better shielded aux cable even though it probably doesn't really matter.

-Rich
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      05-28-2020, 08:38 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by argento View Post
I have the ZPS system, enhanced option package, May 2013 build X5M, and no sound, I have to use the OEM AUX IN.

Truly hope it works for you. Let us know.
Quote:
I did not need the aux input on my 2007 CCC.

S645A - BMW US Radio
S655A - Satellite tuner
S663A - Radio BMW Professional
S672A - CD changer for 6 CDs
S677AHiFi - System Professional DSP
Interested to see any others audio packages and if they needed to use the aux?

I'll report back when i get my unit, but i have:
ZPS - Premium Sound Package
752 - Enhanced Premium Sound package (so has the top hifi amp)

Here's the link i see the 3 different system layouts:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...system/X0Ni0ZY
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      05-28-2020, 09:06 AM   #33
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Thanks guys for the data points...I'll look at the CCC wiring diagrams for any clues.

My WVI states option code 0ZPS (PREMIUM SOUND PACKAGE), but doesn't show option 752. However, in your link I have the third system. Realoem shows two amps for me...one is for option pkg 677 and the other 752. So I'm confused. I'll have to pull my amp to get the part number...

UPDATE: ZPS is a bundle package with Option 752 (Enhanced Premium Sound) and Option 655 (Satellite Radio w/1 yr subscription)
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      05-28-2020, 09:51 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by argento View Post
Thanks guys for the data points...I'll look at the CCC wiring diagrams for any clues.

My WVI states option code 0ZPS (PREMIUM SOUND PACKAGE), but doesn't show option 752. However, in your link I have the third system. Realoem shows two amps for me...one is for option pkg 677 and the other 752. So I'm confused. I'll have to pull my amp to get the part number...
if helpful, this link shows a little more about the different amps:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...ystem/GaRdAReW

And this link has more detail on each type of setup with wiring diagrams:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e.../sound-output/
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      05-28-2020, 01:00 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryantaz View Post
I did not need the aux input on my 2007 CCC.

S645A - BMW US Radio
S655A - Satellite tuner
S663A - Radio BMW Professional
S672A - CD changer for 6 CDs
S677AHiFi - System Professional DSP

It might also be able to tell from the aux input. IIRC, If it doesn't have USB then it likely doesn't need the AUX connection.

My e90 with logic7 did need the aux input. I cut off a female aux cable and soldered it into the back side of the aux input and then connected an aux cable between it and the Android unit. I did buy a better shielded aux cable even though it probably doesn't really matter.

-Rich
Rich, can you confirm whether your 677 Audio system did or did not have Optical Cables (MOST)?
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      05-28-2020, 05:27 PM   #36
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From 4x4 Shop Tech Support:

Q: Do you have any insight why some E70 X5 installs don’t need the AUX OUT to OEM AUX IN connection to hear sound?
A: For E70, always need to run the aux cable from the power harness from android to your factory AUX jack.

I should have also mentioned E71's...
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      05-28-2020, 05:50 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by argento View Post
From 4x4 Shop Tech Support:

Q: Do you have any insight why some E70 X5 installs don’t need the AUX OUT to OEM AUX IN connection to hear sound?
A: For E70, always need to run the aux cable from the power harness from android to your factory AUX jack.

I should have also mentioned E71's...
Wow, would love to know what allows systems not to need it, but that’s unfortunate. Guess we’ll need to go with trying to get the best out of the aux setup.
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      05-28-2020, 06:24 PM   #38
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I've been posting updates to INSTALLATION (post 148) and SOUND QUALITY (post 149) on my build thread...

https://www.xbimmers.com/forums/show...5#post26233725

I'm likely to initiate developer mode to get to seamless transfer...crossing my fingers...
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      05-28-2020, 09:31 PM   #39
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From my build thread...post #148: https://www.xbimmers.com/forums/show...2#post26228982


UPDATE 5/28 - Audio Switching - Minor progress. Right now I have the Y Splitter in the OEM AUX IN, and the USB/DAC and Android AUX OUT connected to the Y Splitter. Some research allowed me to determine that Android Developer Mode has an audio switching function called 'seamless transfer' which could allow the unit to switch between audio sources (USB and AUX OUT). 4x4 Shop does not recommend activating developer. Before attempting that path, I did find an app called Lesser AudioSwitch and decided to try that first. After setting it up I now have sound from non-USB functions including CARPLAY, however it is very low/faint and hissy. Increasing the OEM Aux Volume from 5 to max increases the poor sound a little bit, but when I play UAPP it clips. I could adjust volume limits and gain within UAPP, but that won't change the poor Aux Output sound I'm hearing. So reduced the Aux Volume back down to 5. I noticed the USB audio wasn't sounding exceptional. I removed my USB extension and sound improved. I swapped out the audioquest big sur aux cable for the old SIIG I used in my Avin unit and the sound became very bright, tangibly different, which was surprising to me for just swapping aux cables. Of course one was $115 and the other $20. With the AUX OUT plugged in directly to the AUX IN (using a Monster Aux Cable ~$35), the sound is pretty good as I've noted before. SO why would it suddenly decrease drastically through the Aux Y Splitter? I'm using a Y splitter that is <$10 b/c I could get it fast and I didn't want to spend a lot for something that might not work...I think I will upgrade...Quick note on the switching app...it worked pretty good and I could switch between audio pretty smoothly...it does STOP my music though and I have to press play to continue when switching back to music...also there was a notice that when the device is rebooted, the settings are reset :-/...one problem at a time, lol.

UPDATE: It's not the Aux Y-Splitter...at least it doesn't appear so...I remove the usb/dac line from the Y-Splitter and the AUX out sound is fine.

UPDATE 5/30 - SOLVED! but work still remains - It's not the cheap Aux Y Splitter. I removed the dragonfly DAC and dropped in my OPPO H2A-SE DAC and it works! I know have both sources able to play at the sound qualities described in my build thread. They are switched via Android using the Lesser AudioSwitch App. However the OPPO is not ideal for this application, it is my all-in-one (phone charger, headphone amp, dac) when I go on travel. I need to find a new inline DAC that's compatible with my UAPP app...going through their list of applicable DACs.
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      05-30-2020, 10:14 AM   #40
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My unit has still not shown-up...It was supposed to be here a week ago...So did the No Show-Refund bit with AliExpress...
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      05-30-2020, 10:27 AM   #41
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My unit has still not shown-up...It was supposed to be here a week ago...So did the No Show-Refund bit with AliExpress...
Wow, hope mine comes now since I bought the same one! Been waiting 5 days without shipping info. Let me know how the no show process goes and if it ends up arriving.
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      05-30-2020, 10:31 AM   #42
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I ordered mine on 4/28, it then got built, it was sent for shipping on 5/7, it was held up on 5/10, it arrived on 5/20. Felicia at 4x4 was always very responsive to my inquiries. Good luck.
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      05-30-2020, 10:42 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jvirgi View Post
Wow, would love to know what allows systems not to need it, but that’s unfortunate. Guess we’ll need to go with trying to get the best out of the aux setup.
Hey, heard more from 4x4, apparently there is one manufacturer that provides an install harness that has a T connector that plugs into the connector for the OEM AUX IN. I don't get the impression they believe there is an option out there, in these models, that doesn't use the OEM AUX IN in some way...
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      05-30-2020, 10:52 AM   #44
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ALSO, see above post #39, I think I have a solution that will allow us to play incredible sounding music via the USB and auto-switch to Android Audio (carplay, video, navi, etc.).
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