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      06-22-2016, 07:57 PM   #45
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Wow, I had no idea that the S63Tu was capable of those levels. Kind of wants to make me sell the E70 and pick up an F85! An X5M with 1,000 HP with the regulat F15 bumpers and 3.5d badges would be the ultimate sleeper.

I saw where PTG was using basically X5M turbos and manifold. What o you think would give first on our cars? What is the trans rated to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by m5james View Post
Granted our block isn't nearly as similar as most may have thought compared to the S63TU, but catless downpipes and tune aren't the limit. PP Performance took a page from Dinan's playbook and swapped parts from other cars onto other engines, claimed it as their own while grossly overcharging. Yes, we can install M5 turbos and headers for get roughly another 100hp or so, pushing us into the 750hp range.

http://www.xbimmers.com/forums/showt...ht=DINAN+PAGES
http://www.xbimmers.com/forums/showt...ht=header+swap

As best as I know, there's a handful of S63TU engines that have been blown from pushing high HP (likely tuning issues), but I don't know of any S63 from being pushed to a breaking point yet. This is by no means concrete, but this is my guess of which order mods will/have been done by most:

1) Carbon filter delete and/or drop in filters
2) Stage 1 tune
3) Stage 2 tune
4) Catless downpipes (tune needed to turn off CEL light)
5) Muffler (be it deletion, purchasing something manufactured or custom)
6) Pure Stage 1 turbos (bolts to stock S63 headers)
7) M5 headers and turbos (mind you M5 guys are swapping to Pure Stage 1 (pushing past 1000hp) and now Stage 2 is in testing)

I only know of 2 custom intakes for the X5M, Solo and myself:

http://www.xbimmers.com/forums/showt...=intake+feeler

Since we can't use the Burger Motorsports JB4 or BCM to control meth, wastegate control, etc. it seems meth is a step that is still unexplored territory as far as I know as well...I'm looking into it for it's cleaning abilities first and foremost, then whatever added octane may be gained for safety reasons, but once again I haven't seen anyone running meth on the S63 yet.

http://www.xbimmers.com/forums/showt...php?p=20141649

Poing being...only a handful of S63's are running M5 headers/turbos and/or Pure Stage 1 turbos, so it seems the limits haven't been found because the S63 hasn't been pushed as much as the S63TU. The million dollar question is if anyones bought these wheels.
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      06-22-2016, 08:18 PM   #46
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I spend more times on the M5 boards than I do here, only because I'm trying to follow in their footsteps. Once I found out the differences between the S63 and S63TU in regards to hardware and software difference, I felt we got the short end of the stick since the E70/E71 was basically a test bed to iron out the kinks of the S63 before BMW did their TU update and threw it into cars. I considered trading my X5M in as well for a newer one, but I got my S63 powered X5M for a great price with my most wanted options combo, so the money spent to upgrade to the S63TU X5M would far outweigh the money I could just spend upgrading what I've already got and still have money left over.

PTG? As far as I know, PP Performance has pushed the S63 the most, their thread died off, so I don't know what our trans is rated for. We can't use the M5 ratings as a gauge since their a DCT or 6spd, so this is also unknown territory.
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Last edited by m5james; 06-22-2016 at 09:35 PM..
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      06-22-2016, 11:35 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 01blacks4 View Post
what about a Toluene mixture? seems to be better than e85. not able to buy at the pump...so its kinda a pain. but the end result is awesome.

im thinking the meth/washer fluid is a great addition for maintaining power. heat soak is terrible in these things, the intercooler system using the coolant seems simple for a factory system. It would be much better with a second separate independent system. im in Arizona and 120 degree days kinda stink.

this truck reminds me of the 99-02 audi s4. there was very limited support, chips/downpipes.... with nothing but back yard home depot engineering there were plenty of us who had the thing from 250hp to over 400....

I am in agreement on one sad issue...the TU is far superior and much more responsive to anything and everything...
I haven't tried toluene in years, so I don't even know what the mixture ratio would be. I've read on these boards where someone was using roughly 3 gallons of E85 before filling up the rest of the way with 91/92. Since we can't use the JB4/BCM combo to do datalogging and being able to adjust boost levels, I don't know how we'd do testing on the E7* platform to determine which ratio is the best. Meth is widely used, cheap and supposedly very safe at a 50/50 mixture even without a tune based on simple Google searches I've done after reading comments from various types of make and model of cars using it. Finding a meth kit that has a functioning "safety/failsafe" feature that works on our cars is proving harder than I'd expected.
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      06-23-2016, 12:37 AM   #48
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Doing a Google search on the countless part numbers on the OP's first thread, using any and all combinations of searching using those numbers, there are many sites showing different part numbers of turbos, serial numbers, unknown detailed variations over a couple different years, etc for the turbos used on the X5M and X6M. Unfortunately finding out the manufacturing differences between these wheels is likely information that no one will ever be able to find. A few searches did direct me to other forums stating that the material the compressor wheel is made out of is less important than the angles, cut, etc of the wheel as to what gains can be made from them. Will Pure be 100% transparent if you ask them if they're doing nothing more than adding this billet wheel to a stock housing...not likely. Will Pure claim everything they're doing is proprietary, secretive, custom made in-house and give as little as possible...very likely.

Call me a skeptic, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they're $2500+ upgrade was nothing more than installing a billet wheel such as the one listed here...but we'll never know unless someone buys one of their upgraded turbos, takes it apart and compares this blade blade vs what's been installed into their Pure rebuilt turbos. I've written Pure in the past asking about their upgrade and they said it's the same regardless of the S63 or S63TU, which kinda drives it home for me. The problem is I don't feel comfortable enough to disassemble and reassemble a turbo, which is likely where their pricing comes into play.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/152119676938...MakeTrack=true
http://www.pureturbos.com/store/bmw-...de-turbos.html

PS = before everyone hops onto the "It's eBay garbage" train, just remember that eBay is a portal for buying and selling, eBay isn't manufacturing them. Proof in point that these wheels can be bought on eBay or from a handful of other vendors, but ultimately the wheels are made by someone else. Anyone reading this got Pure stage 1 turbos on their S63/S63TU to compare what their wheel looks like vs the one in the ad?
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'97 BMW 328ci - ///E36 M3 clutch & L/W flywheel, Z4///M 18's

Last edited by m5james; 06-23-2016 at 12:44 AM..
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      09-02-2016, 01:03 PM   #49
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Bumping this thread...seems the limets of our transmission is around 670hp and today an eBay seller in CA said these are the same wheels that Pure uses. I've asked for more details/proof and I'm doing research on other car forums for this brand of wheel to see their results.
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      09-02-2016, 02:47 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m5james View Post
Bumping this thread...seems the limets of our transmission is around 670hp and today an eBay seller in CA said these are the same wheels that Pure uses. I've asked for more details/proof and I'm doing research on other car forums for this brand of wheel to see their results.
These billet wheels can be purchased for about 100/piece directly from the vendor but is it really an upgrade ... interesting to see since I want to do a turbo upgrade/rebuilt at some point in the future to increase longevity/power.

For the price pure turbo is charging I would expect a full teardown, rebuild and balance, it would be morally wrong if they just toss in this compressor wheel and send it back.

Youtube has how-to videos on replacing the compressor wheel not difficult at all for a DIY'er.

670 WHP ?
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      09-02-2016, 03:11 PM   #51
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You assume these companies have morals...haven't you seen how society operates more so than ever later?

I don't know if the 670 is wheel or crank, I'm waiting for Pure to tell me who the customer was and who they used for the "built" transmission. I've also been emailing with an Australian company who claims they're kits will be safe up to 1200hp for around $5300, parts only.
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      09-02-2016, 04:01 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m5james View Post
You assume these companies have morals...haven't you seen how society operates more so than ever later?

I don't know if the 670 is wheel or crank, I'm waiting for Pure to tell me who the customer was and who they used for the "built" transmission. I've also been emailing with an Australian company who claims they're kits will be safe up to 1200hp for around $5300, parts only.
Yup ... $2,250 sticker price for a tune.

Subscribed and waiting plan on doing some power upgrades next summer.
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      09-03-2016, 05:33 AM   #53
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M5james,

Thought I'd pass this along to you. Hopefully either Bosch or BMW will eventually offer a meth kit that is model specific!

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...d-engine-tech/
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      09-03-2016, 08:10 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m5james View Post
You assume these companies have morals...haven't you seen how society operates more so than ever later?

I don't know if the 670 is wheel or crank, I'm waiting for Pure to tell me who the customer was and who they used for the "built" transmission. I've also been emailing with an Australian company who claims they're kits will be safe up to 1200hp for around $5300, parts only.
Who's the Aussie Company?
I can let you know what is being said over this side of the fence.
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      09-05-2016, 06:49 PM   #55
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Supply full Clutch A,B and C clutch's: $ 698.00
Supply HP 26 Billet input shaft and drum: $2,937.59 Complete with full upgraded clutch assembly.
Supply Billet intermediate shaft: $ 1,385.00
Freight: $ 350.00 approximately


Total: $ 5,370.59



Regards

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Phone: 03 9738 2134
Fax: 03 9729 4295
Email: sales@nizpro.com.au
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      09-12-2016, 01:52 PM   #56
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I was looking into these Kinugawa wheels. It seems like it's basically just an extended tip design. If you read up on it, the details is that you can have a smaller wheel act like a larger wheel, helping you get more boost and spool quicker. In this application, ideally, the compressor fan tips extend a couple mm more into the housing, allowing it to push a little more air without spooling much slower. I would probably have just ordered these, seeing how cheap they are, but since my X5m is a work truck... I am really trying to sit on my hands to keep from ordering the compressor wheels. You can read about the idea here:

http://www.patentsencyclopedia.com/app/20080229742
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      09-13-2016, 12:02 AM   #57
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The blades extend higher to the top but there's also more blades vs stock.

I found these random pics online from another rebuilder...point is you can see stock vs aftermarket, blade counts, etc. Last picture is the Kinugawa wheels which damn near look the same as the ALSA wheels minus every other blade being clipped.
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      09-13-2016, 08:16 AM   #58
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I wonder why the Alsa wheels are clipped. You can see the extended tips in the pictures you posted. My gut says that you may get a few hp ~20 out of this compressor upgrade, but I doubt you'd see anything significant.

For example:

Last edited by e36bmer; 09-13-2016 at 08:37 AM..
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      10-26-2016, 03:14 AM   #59
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So long story short, but I've emailed Kinugawa and they said their wheels can be installed by anyone. I also spoke with the guys from Turbo Labs of America (tons of YouTube videos) and they've said in not so many words that the popular turbo rebuilders out there are doing nothing more than these wheels for their stage 1 setups. It's the stage 2 that's more elusive, proof being that M5 guys (ages ahead of us in terms of mods and power levels) are still experimenting with stage 2. With that said, Turbo Labs said they'd do a stage 2 for $1600, so after seeing what they've done in the N54 world, I'm likely going to give them a try.
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      10-26-2016, 08:58 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m5james View Post
So long story short, but I've emailed Kinugawa and they said their wheels can be installed by anyone. I also spoke with the guys from Turbo Labs of America (tons of YouTube videos) and they've said in not so many words that the popular turbo rebuilders out there are doing nothing more than these wheels for their stage 1 setups. It's the stage 2 that's more elusive, proof being that M5 guys (ages ahead of us in terms of mods and power levels) are still experimenting with stage 2. With that said, Turbo Labs said they'd do a stage 2 for $1600, so after seeing what they've done in the N54 world, I'm likely going to give them a try.
I'm assuming the turbos have to come off and be shipped to them. Is this a complete rebuild of the turbos or are they just swapping compressor wheels as well? For $1600, if they do a core deposit or something like that, then I'm for sure in. Actually, I'd probably do it either way if I knew more details on what they plan to put inside the housings to replace OEM. Maybe they can do a deal for 2?

Edit: Have you searched these guys online and seen all the terrible reviews?

Last edited by e36bmer; 10-26-2016 at 09:09 AM..
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      10-26-2016, 11:15 AM   #61
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Kinugawa said the compressor wheels (stage 1) can be swapped by anyone with basic hand tools, while Turbo Labs (stage 2) would be rebuilt by them.

Yeah, I've seen reviews go both ways for Turbo Labs. Hexon over from the N54 boards are hit and miss as well, they've ultimately gone out of business, so who knows really. I've never taken a turbo apart, but watching these YouTube videos makes it look easy, seems the CHRA is what would cause blades to hit the housing, so do we blame the rebuilders assembly techniques, the blade manufacturer not balancing them, etc? I don't really know, I'm just trying to see what's so entailed between a $1600 and $3500 rebuild.
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      12-27-2016, 09:17 PM   #62
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Anyone tried replacing their compressor wheel yet? Funny how 8 years ago I would have scoffed at someone even talking about turbos...now I'm learning up. I guess the good thing about buying upgraded turbos as opposed to just the wheel is that you are essentially paying for a rebuild at the same time. Plus Pure has a warranty. Sounds like higher mileage preventative maintenance to me...must put it on the list and get wife's approval since it's so necessary. I'm interested to hear from someone with a PURE stage 1 and the new S63 JB4. I know in one of the posts Terry told a guy to send him logs with his stage 1 installed and he would tune it, but didn't read anything else about it.
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      12-28-2016, 01:55 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrmccain View Post
M5james,

Thought I'd pass this along to you. Hopefully either Bosch or BMW will eventually offer a meth kit that is model specific!

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...d-engine-tech/
Jeremy Clarkson mocked the system on The Grand Tour, and while I like the guys, they're clearly closed minded, biased and doesn't understand the tuning world. Proof shown in the Top Gear episode where they took an LFA, Viper and Vanquish to the track and were walked by cars costing 1/4 the price.

https://youtu.be/b_c1H60zlW0
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      12-28-2016, 01:58 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jandref321 View Post
Anyone tried replacing their compressor wheel yet? Funny how 8 years ago I would have scoffed at someone even talking about turbos...now I'm learning up. I guess the good thing about buying upgraded turbos as opposed to just the wheel is that you are essentially paying for a rebuild at the same time. Plus Pure has a warranty. Sounds like higher mileage preventative maintenance to me...must put it on the list and get wife's approval since it's so necessary. I'm interested to hear from someone with a PURE stage 1 and the new S63 JB4. I know in one of the posts Terry told a guy to send him logs with his stage 1 installed and he would tune it, but didn't read anything else about it.
I don't know anyone who's shadetree and done it themselves but I do know there's a handful of S63's running Pure's stage one setup. I've written Kunigawa and Turbo Labs of America but this isn't anything I'll be doing until I get a set of S63TU headers since I'll already be that deep into the engine.
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      12-28-2016, 11:46 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m5james View Post
I don't know anyone who's shadetree and done it themselves but I do know there's a handful of S63's running Pure's stage one setup. I've written Kunigawa and Turbo Labs of America but this isn't anything I'll be doing until I get a set of S63TU headers since I'll already be that deep into the engine.
Hey James, curious to know what information you've gathered about the S63tu headers & turbos. Will our S63 transmissions be able to handle the tu headers & turbos?
I'm having an issue with one of my turbos and am strongly considering getting new turbos to send to Pure to have them upgrade to stage 2. They told me that stage 2 included both the turbine & compressor but didn't mention anything else that needs to be upgraded as well.

I'm really curious what other supporting mods (if any?) need to be done to handle the stage 2 Pure turbos.
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      01-05-2017, 01:59 PM   #66
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I've read of a handful that have already done the swap. My plan is to continue running my Halim/HCP tune coupled with BMS' JB4, BCM and meth kit and then just keep tuning from there with Halim helping with the back end flash. On the chance the transmission breaks, I've found a couple rebuilders.

For you going to Pure 2's, at minimum I'd recommend a stage 2 tune and then talk with tuners to see how they'd wanna help dial it in, either using dyno time or JB4 because you can help via running logs...JB4 probably being the cheaper of those two options.
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