The best audio upgrade for the X5

[RL18]

Originally Posted by argento

If I'm not mistaken, you can't run the woofer alone off that XO IF you're also planning on plugging the tweeter into the woofer. Else your tweeter feed will also be LPF. You'd have to split the tweeter off the XO input...

THANKS for posting the impedance of the diamond tweeter. Seems to be inline w the 629 non-diamond tweeter.

Yes, I did mention that. Don't plug the tweeter into the midrange with the midrange wired to the crossover or you won't get anything above 2khz. You would wire the tweeter onto the input of the crossover and use the supplied tweeter hpf. That's actually how my doors are wired right now.

[SlowX6M]

I reinstalled the center speaker, but I replaced stock filter with the one from Bimmertech and added the Bimmertech splitter/filter.

[SlowX6M]

Originally Posted by SlowX6M

So back on topic, so far I only got one diamond B&W tweeter and put it in the center, but honestly I can't hear any difference vs the Bimmertech tweeter I was using. This is probably the result of the filter that I am using.

I am looking at other tweeter options online, I see the Infiniti and then there are more expensive tweeters such as Audiofrog, Hertz and JL audio that seem to have rave reviews.

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_301ML2...-ML-280-3.html

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-7RC066...IaAkpeEALw_wcB

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_136997...ct-Single.html

If I was to go with these, what kind of crossover/filter should I use? Luckily in the X5 the tweeter plugs right into the midrange, so it gets the full range of frequencies that the midrange gets, and then I need a crossover/filter that can filter out below the tweeters frequency response. With the Hertz tweeter, its response its 1,000-25,000 HZ, which is pretty amazing.

There are also Focal TBM utopia for $1,750 that have frequency response up to 40,000hz - but they are probably a complete waste with BMW's subpar amp/dsp.

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_091TBM...BM.html?tp=107

So I basically decided to leave my center diamond tweeter alone, and even though I'm probably not getting the full potential out of it with the bimmertech filters, not much I can do about it without making it too complicated.

But what about my front doors. I know the impedance of the B&W midranges, and I have the two cross overs already that I bought earlier. Are these crossovers a good match of my B&W midranges + one of these tweeters in the links above?

[argento]

Well, I'm working on a possibly very viable custom solution and was going to wait until I have tangible details to post. But I may be able to save you some effort if this works out. More later...

[RL18]

Originally Posted by SlowX6M

So I basically decided to leave my center diamond tweeter alone, and even though I'm probably not getting the full potential out of it with the bimmertech filters, not much I can do about it without making it too complicated.

But what about my front doors. I know the impedance of the B&W midranges, and I have the two cross overs already that I bought earlier. Are these crossovers a good match of my B&W midranges + one of these tweeters in the links above?

Yes like I mentioned the b&w woofers will work best with a tweeter that is 6ohms if you want to use that crossover. Your crossover point would be around 2khz
Some options would be:

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_210MT3...00.html?tp=107

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_500SS1...TW.html?tp=107

Me personally would go with the alpine tweeters because you're using stock amp power.

BUT

you also can use the the crossover just for the woofer and go with a 4ohm tweeter like you had looked into. Just leave the tweeter contacts on the crossover empty, and wire the tweeter to the input contact, using the inline filter provided with the tweeter instead.

[argento]

Originally Posted by argento

Well, I'm working on a possibly very viable custom solution and was going to wait until I have tangible details to post. But I may be able to save you some effort if this works out. More later...

Ok, after many closed doors in my face, I found the right person to build custom crossovers matched to the B&W Speakers and the E70. I just confirmed quantity and schedule (2 months) with him.

I had to provide speaker and listing position dimensions and will be sending him a B&W Mid (774) and Tweeter (773, no inline filter) for analysis. He has a lot of experience in speaker design, including HIFI tweeters. He talked me out of using the diamond tweeters in the front stage...but, honestly, given the cost savings I didn't argue. He did make a case for silk domed tweeters, but I stayed with the B&Ws. I've ordered a matched XO pair for the rear doors, front doors, and XO for the dash center channel. I ran out of budget for the d-pillars, but am not concerned...I had to draw the line somewhere, lol.

They aren't cheap ~270/pr, but high quality components (polypropylene caps and air-core inductors) matched to these speakers. That doesn't include the cost of the B&W analysis or the enclosures. He doesn't offer enclosures, but I did some research and found a low profile (1.6"H) acrylic enclosure I think will work...he's going to design the board to my enclosure, but really it's just matching the pcb mounting holes and trying to stay within the footprint (we'll see). He did give me the option to just sell me the component kit (150/pr) and I build the XO myself to save on labor, but I decided to have the expert build them...at least the first pair. Now to wait and see if this develops positively...

[cat82]

After reading all i could find about the bowers and wilkins audio upgrade and seeing all the test SlowX6M did i decided to go for it for my e70 2009 with Logic 7(top hi-fi). I replaced front doors(mids and tweeters) , center (mid and tweeters) and subwoofers and the diference is amazing in clarity, depth. The bowers and wilkins subwoofers are realy strong, about twice the power of original Logic 7 and you can feel the bass in the hole car.
SlowX6M was right, the bowers and wilkins speakers fit plug&play in the e70.I did not use the diamond tweeters because they are about 1000 E each, so i used the aluminium ones from the back doors of the original sistem.


I am very impressed with the sound but i have one concern and question for SlowX6M....... when i received the bowers and wilkins subwoofers i measured the impedance and they were 4 Ohms. When i took off the original logic 7 subwoofer i was very stunned to read they are 8 Ohms each.........i read a lot about impedance and it seems its not ok to put 4 ohms speakers on the 8 ohms amplifier because the amp must work twice as muck to deliver the power to the 4 Ohms subwoofer and the amp will heat and posibly burn. So.... Slowx6m how is your amp? is it still alive?

[SlowX6M]

Hey, i had this for a while now, the amp is doing just fine. And before I had the Bavsound subs for a while as well, I believe they are also 4ohm. Don't sweat it.

[cat82]

Hope you are right SlowX6M. I cannot find the reason why they put 8 ohms subwoofers when all others use 4 or 2. Probably its a safety measure..... no matter how loud you listen the speakers will not fail. A sound ingineer told me that a 4 ohm speaker has double the resistence(impedance) than an 8 ohm...... so the amp should send double the power for the same level of music and that should heat it up...... im guessing the logic 7 delivers 4 ohm to the mids/tweeters and 8 for the subs which is strange
I am a litlle scared for my amp but hope it lives. For how long have you had the 4 ohm subwoofers installed?

[mitch808]

Originally Posted by cat82

Hope you are right SlowX6M. I cannot find the reason why they put 8 ohms subwoofers when all others use 4 or 2. Probably its a safety measure..... no matter how loud you listen the speakers will not fail. A sound ingineer told me that a 4 ohm speaker has double the resistance(impedance) than an 8 ohm...... so the amp should send double the power for the same level of music and that should heat it up...... im guessing the logic 7 delivers 4 ohm to the mids/tweeters and 8 for the subs which is strange
I am a litlle scared for my amp but hope it lives. For how long have you had the 4 ohm subwoofers installed?

4 ohms, is HALF the resistance than 8 ohms, allowing twice the amount of power to run through it. Though speakers are not fixed impedance values and change with frequency and temp...

The amp may not be 4ohm stable, however in many cases, if you're not running at full volume for hours... it may run just fine with a lower impedance just fine.

[SlowX6M]

Originally Posted by cat82

Hope you are right SlowX6M. I cannot find the reason why they put 8 ohms subwoofers when all others use 4 or 2. Probably its a safety measure..... no matter how loud you listen the speakers will not fail. A sound ingineer told me that a 4 ohm speaker has double the resistence(impedance) than an 8 ohm...... so the amp should send double the power for the same level of music and that should heat it up...... im guessing the logic 7 delivers 4 ohm to the mids/tweeters and 8 for the subs which is strange
I am a litlle scared for my amp but hope it lives. For how long have you had the 4 ohm subwoofers installed?

I started with Bavsounds subs that I replaced with B&Ws, so around a year now, if Bavsounds are 4ohm.

[RL18]

Well I'm not sure what the wiring lengths are like, but it's possible that the 18awg wire thats run to the underseat subs can't flow the 140w you are now outputting to the underseats using a 4ohm impedance. Which is why you haven't overloaded the amp.

So let's say there is 9.5ft of 18awg between the amp and the underseats... @ 8ohms you can flow a total of 248w. @ 4ohms you cut that in half and can only flow a total of 124w. If there's more length added to the wiring that 124w would drop even more, but if the length decreased it could flow all 140w.

Then again the amp just might be able to handle it. After all most amps can easily handle 4ohm loads. They might of used a 8ohm underseat with the logic system to balance the levels between the door speakers and the underseats, aka keep the music balanced not bass heavy.

All in all. It's definitely the safest bet to stick to oem impedances if you're worried about it. If you want more bass I would recommend getting the technic add a sub harness, run proper wire gauge to the underseats and an aftermarket amp (possibly one with built in dsp) to get the most out of the underseats. With the right power and tuning they can output bass with serious authority, while also adding a considerable amount of low midrange and sub bass



On another note... now that I know the b&w underseats are 4ohms. We'll be seeing if they can handle 200w each

[argento]

RL18 at least in the S752A audio option, the doors are running 2ohms...if you put B&W's, they're running ~3.8ohms. Would that alleviate the amp from some of the problem with over-runing the subs?

[RL18]

Originally Posted by argento

RL18 at least in the S752A audio option, the doors are running 2ohms...if you put B&W's, they're running ~3.8ohms. Would that alleviate the amp from some of the problem with over-runing the subs?

Hard to say. It might... But running higher impedance in the door speakers you cut your mids and highs power in half while your bass power will be doubled. This could make your music sound even more unbalanced. You'd be better off sticking with 2ohms.

[SlowX6M]

I just wouldn't worry about it too much, lol. It is a gigantic improvement, and it shouldn't cause any reliability problems, people been swapping components for many years.

I'd say my X5 sounds 80% as good as my X6M with the full B&W system, and substantially better than my previous X6M with B&O system.

[volc]

I'm looking to upgrade audio in my X5 F15 '14. I have currently factory Harman Kardon S688A. Generally I'm more into soundstage and clarity, but I am not too satisfied in bass too. Nevertheless I do not require a very strong bass part.

I'm not sure which way to go - I thought of buying S752A set from X6 E71. It is almost plug and play. I just need to install crossovers in front doors and buy spacers for midranges, as F15 midranges are lifted comparing to E71.

I could also spend 2,5 times more and buy B&O set S6F2A from F15. Unfortunately here are mixed opinions about it. Many people are not impressed with it, but mostly due to lacking bass which is not exactly my priority. This would require quite a lot of work as in B&O tweeters are fed directly from the amplifier, so a lot of wiring to be added, especially to the doors. B&O amplifier is the most powerful according to specification (1200W, probably 7*100W and 2*250W).

From this thread I see I could also mix S688A or S752A with B&W speakes (bass, midrange and maybe tweeters) from G series. For the moment I can't find bass speakers, but it could be a matter of time. Midrange and tweeters are easier to find. I'm worried here if S688A amplifier (600W, 7*50W and 2*125W) is powerful enough for B&W drivers. Maybe I could try to find just an amplifier from S752A (825W, 7*75W and 2*150W). Finally maybe those differences from amplifier specifications do not make such a big difference in real usage?

I also have a real/fake central speaker from F15 B&O from aliexpress and Audiocontrol LC2i bass line out adapter collecting dust lying on a shelf. They are waiting for a decision on what to do next with whole audio setup.

[mitch808]

Originally Posted by volc

I'm looking to upgrade audio in my X5 F15 '14. I have currently factory Harman Kardon S688A. Generally I'm more into soundstage and clarity, but I am not too satisfied in bass too. Nevertheless I do not require a very strong bass part.

I'm not sure which way to go - I thought of buying S752A set from X6 E71. It is almost plug and play. I just need to install crossovers in front doors and buy spacers for midranges, as F15 midranges are lifted comparing to E71.

I could also spend 2,5 times more and buy B&O set S6F2A from F15. Unfortunately here are mixed opinions about it. Many people are not impressed with it, but mostly due to lacking bass which is not exactly my priority. This would require quite a lot of work as in B&O tweeters are fed directly from the amplifier, so a lot of wiring to be added, especially to the doors. B&O amplifier is the most powerful according to specification (1200W, probably 7*100W and 2*250W).

From this thread I see I could also mix S688A or S752A with B&W speakes (bass, midrange and maybe tweeters) from G series. For the moment I can't find bass speakers, but it could be a matter of time. Midrange and tweeters are easier to find. I'm worried here if S688A amplifier (600W, 7*50W and 2*125W) is powerful enough for B&W drivers. Maybe I could try to find just an amplifier from S752A (825W, 7*75W and 2*150W). Finally maybe those differences from amplifier specifications do not make such a big difference in real usage?

I also have a real/fake central speaker from F15 B&O from aliexpress and Audiocontrol LC2i bass line out adapter collecting dust lying on a shelf. They are waiting for a decision on what to do next with whole audio setup.

I'm an outlier to this whole thread. But there are much better options, better engineered, and plug and play out there than the BMW OEM stuff.

CDT makes some great BMW kits, that have proper xovers, better materials and will be plug-n-play.
https://www.cdtaudio.com/carspecific/car_specific.htm
This past Nov, they were like 40-50% off on sale! So you can wait for the next big US holiday and buy these on sale. (But I don't know if they ship internationally?)

I think Focal also makes a kit too.

The AudioControl LCI is a fantastic lineup of gear to integrate a factory amp. The LC2i is the barebones basic for a sub, or at least amplifying the front stage. I personally have used the 7i and lust over their amps with the LCi built-in.

[Nkponder]

I took Mitch's recommendation on the CTD and bought two sets of speakers with the black friday 50% off sale. Gotta say they sound great!! The speakers have filters and cross overs and are plus and play installation. I highly recommend!

[SlowX6M]

Be careful with aftermarket kits, I had Bavsound for a short while, it was utter garbage. No idea about CTD or Focal, usually Focal is highly regarded.

[volc]

Originally Posted by mitch808

I'm an outlier to this whole thread. But there are much better options, better engineered, and plug and play out there than the BMW OEM stuff.

CDT makes some great BMW kits, that have proper xovers, better materials and will be plug-n-play.
https://www.cdtaudio.com/carspecific/car_specific.htm
This past Nov, they were like 40-50% off on sale! So you can wait for the next big US holiday and buy these on sale. (But I don't know if they ship internationally?)

I think Focal also makes a kit too.

The AudioControl LCI is a fantastic lineup of gear to integrate a factory amp. The LC2i is the barebones basic for a sub, or at least amplifying the front stage. I personally have used the 7i and lust over their amps with the LCi built-in.

I can buy Focal Inside here. Hmmm, this could also be an interesting option to buy such set. But what with amplifier? Keep HK? Will it be powerful enough to drive Focals? With bass part I think that maybe instead of replacing HK subs with Focals I could use AudioControl and buy separate amplifier and sub. I could mount it somewhere in the trunk.

[volc]

Originally Posted by SlowX6M

Be careful with aftermarket kits, I had Bavsound for a short while, it was utter garbage. No idea about CTD or Focal, usually Focal is highly regarded.

To be honest somehow I lean towards choosing BMW speakers. If I want to stick to BMW amplifiers then frequency output is quite restricted by their settings. My understanding is that factory speakers could be a best fit for that.

I know that 3rd party amplifier and good 3rd party speakers would give far better results. But I have already built many custom sets in my previous cars and now I would prefer simplicity and clean install of factory components. Not to mention costs of building custom setup built on most bridge and 3rd party DSP.

Which amplifiers do you recommend from BMW factory ones? Do you think there is a real difference in switching from F15 HK to E71 Individual or F15 B&O?

[SlowX6M]

Originally Posted by volc

To be honest somehow I lean towards choosing BMW speakers. If I want to stick to BMW amplifiers then frequency output is quite restricted by their settings. My understanding is that factory speakers could be a best fit for that.

I know that 3rd party amplifier and good 3rd party speakers would give far better results. But I have already built many custom sets in my previous cars and now I would prefer simplicity and clean install of factory components. Not to mention costs of building custom setup built on most bridge and 3rd party DSP.

Which amplifiers do you recommend from BMW factory ones? Do you think there is a real difference in switching from F15 HK to E71 Individual or F15 B&O?

I don't think you'll be able to swap them out, I took out B&O amp from my old F86 and compared it to L7 amp in my E70 - they are similar but different enough not to be plug and play. The B&W amp in the F96 is even more different. Plus, all of these are digital amps with fiber optic cable coming to the amp from the headunit, and need to be VIN coded.

F15 HK amp might be analog, not too sure.