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      02-21-2019, 07:19 PM   #1
aloyouis
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Dealer is replacing the Valve Stem Seals under the lawsuit warranty

Hi all,

I called my dealer to set up a recall fix and an oil change and they informed me that the X5 was due to be inspected for the Valve Seal inspection and timing belt chain inspection.

The results of the testing are that the timing chain is tight and does not need to be replaced but they approved replacing the Valve Stem Seals. This will be done at no charge. In addition, they are covering 3 oil changes and replacing the battery at no charge.

I warned him (kinda jokingly) that this thing better come back to me with nothing else "found" that will be chargeable and he already hit me with an expansion tank crack for coolant. I knew there was a small leak some where and they are replacing it for the cost of the part (Their cost: $195) only since they have it apart already.

To summarize:

Valve stem seals
battery
oil change
new coolant expansion tank

$195 + tax

MY QUESTIONS

1. I am no mechanic (not even close). I do basic maintenance items only with brakes being about as complicated as I will undertake. That said, I really don't know how complex of a job the VSS replacement is. What would need to be replaced in addition to the seals just to get the VSS job done? In other words and given how these things leak all kinds of different colors (LOL) what else am I "getting"? Do the heads come off, new head gaskets?

Anything else?

2. I assume that many, many components will need to be removed/disassembled in order to do the VSS job (He stated they "drop the engine" on to a cart). These items that are disconnected to drop the engine are 88K miles and 8 years old. Something (a hose, a wire, a clamp etc.) WILL BREAK during this VSS job. Who pays for these things? What if something doesn't work right after they are done such as the cooling fan? Again, who pays to diagnose and fix after the fact?

3. This question is a scary one because I have only had this thing since October so my "repair fund" only only up to $375 ($125 a month saved so far). Is there anything else I should have them do while they have it opened up to take advantage of the labor savings? I can probably spend $800 on items in this category if it makes sense and will avoid future expense.



That is a ****-ton of stuff to throw at you folks here, but I respect your learned opinions and would really appreciate any information and/or advice. The car is there now and they start on it tomorrow. He thinks it will be good top go on late Friday or early Monday.

Thank you all for any help.

Jim

PS - I posted this same thing on Bimmerfest was well and received some helpful comments. I a hoping you folks can add some!
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      02-21-2019, 09:54 PM   #2
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Good questions. They will absolutely need to replace all gaskets, plus whatever plastic piping will likely crack during the process. I would think that they would have to replace tons of bolts too, since they stretch over time. Your best bet is to actually ask your SA for all of the specifics. Good luck, and be sure to report back on your experience!

Last edited by Poppyboy; 02-21-2019 at 09:55 PM.. Reason: Typo
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      02-22-2019, 08:19 AM   #3
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I assume you were loosing oil, this is usually main reason for replacing Valve Steam seals! If not than I don't really understand what was the inspection all about?

In any case if you were loosing oil, I would consider yourself lucky that they are doing this job almost free of charge for you as this can be very expensive repair down the road!

as far as the rest of the items that most likely will need to be replaced along, ask your SA for detailed list and make sure everything is documented that in case if anything happens after to the related items.

Good luck and keep us updated!
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      02-22-2019, 09:50 AM   #4
aloyouis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poppyboy View Post
Good questions. They will absolutely need to replace all gaskets, plus whatever plastic piping will likely crack during the process. I would think that they would have to replace tons of bolts too, since they stretch over time. Your best bet is to actually ask your SA for all of the specifics. Good luck, and be sure to report back on your experience!
I pick it up in a supple of hours and will post the work orders which SHOULD (but may not) show everything they did including parts used which should give us clues. The SA seemed to have contradicted himself as he told me that they were "dropping the motor on to a cart to do the repairs AND that they did not have to remove the heads because they we're using a specific set of tools built for this job (I am assuming the AGA set). The AGA set doesn't require dropping the engine. So I guess we will see.
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      02-22-2019, 09:56 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boneca View Post
I assume you were loosing oil, this is usually main reason for replacing Valve Steam seals! If not than I don't really understand what was the inspection all about?

In any case if you were loosing oil, I would consider yourself lucky that they are doing this job almost free of charge for you as this can be very expensive repair down the road!

as far as the rest of the items that most likely will need to be replaced along, ask your SA for detailed list and make sure everything is documented that in case if anything happens after to the related items.

Good luck and keep us updated!
Funny you say that about the oil because my consumption over the 10K miles I have had it was only about 2.75 quarts. This would seem NOT to line up with bad VSS. That said, it is part of the BANG lawsuit and they did a test which was sent to BMW who authorized the VSS replacement. I could have refused, but this would have negated any future claim should the seals go bad in the future. At least now I have a 2 year unlimited milage VSS warranty should they fail. I plan to drive the pants off of it. :-)

As stated above, I will scan and post the service orders for anyone that wishes to know what was done and what parts were used.

Incidentally, he quoted my 7-8K in out of pocked expense to do the VSS at the dealer should I have the issues outside of the lawsuit parameters. Seemed like a no brainer to have them do it. Hopefully, I don't have any regrets. Again, I will follow up.

If anyone has any additional thoughts on my original post, I would love to read them.

Thanks,

Jim
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      02-23-2019, 02:18 PM   #6
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F-me running!!! I am soooooo pissed.

I didn't even have it for 24 hours and it **** the bed in my garage.

Using the Chinese OBD2 adapter and DashCommand it shows a P0015 code.

"P0015 BMW - 'B' Camshaft Position Timing Over-Retarded Bank 1".

The car claimed it could be driven to dealer slowly but the dealer said they would send a truck.

This will be interesting. I will not give them a dime. They wanted to do this "fix". I called for an oil change a week ago and now this. I'd hoped that it could be beneficial for me (while they covered their lawsuit laden ass), but this complete bull****.
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      02-25-2019, 11:22 AM   #7
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I know this is stressful, but give them a chance to make it right. You are getting ONE HELL OF A DEAL so far, so just get a loaner or rental car and try to be patient. As mentioned, these engines are complicated and it could be something minor that popped up. GL!

So what I want to know is, how many engine oil consumption tests did they do before getting approval to do the VSS work?
The lawsuit states it has to fail 3 tests, but the dealer can use their discretion...

Mine uses oil, but not an insane amt. I got the add oil message this wknd, so I added a qt this morning and hit the Trip odometer reset to see how many miles before being notified again... Just to get an idea.
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      02-25-2019, 06:06 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heatmizr View Post
I know this is stressful, but give them a chance to make it right. You are getting ONE HELL OF A DEAL so far, so just get a loaner or rental car and try to be patient. As mentioned, these engines are complicated and it could be something minor that popped up. GL!

So what I want to know is, how many engine oil consumption tests did they do before getting approval to do the VSS work?
The lawsuit states it has to fail 3 tests, but the dealer can use their discretion...

Mine uses oil, but not an insane amt. I got the add oil message this wknd, so I added a qt this morning and hit the Trip odometer reset to see how many miles before being notified again... Just to get an idea.

Exhaust VANOS Solenoid Bank 1 replaced. No charge.

They picked up and delivered the X5 back to my home which is 24 miles each way.

Credit where credit is due: the dealer jumped when this happened and fixed it.

That said, I am worried that this kind of work requires that all kinds of connectors, gaskets, hoses and clamps be removed and reinstalled on an 8 year old vehicle and that some may have been weakened or otherwise compromised as the solenoid was and I told them so. They (the SA) assured me that they would take care of anything that could be related to the VSS replacement the same way they did this solenoid. I hope they do.

Overall, I am unhappy that they needed to take it back, but also happy they jumped to fix it.

WRT the oil consumption, it seems that they made the decision to do the VSS replacement more on what they saw (and recorded) and sent to BMW than on actual consumption. They said BMW authorized the VSS job as part of the BANG lawsuit.
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      02-25-2019, 07:17 PM   #9
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I look at it differently, I think it's great they pulled stuff apart etc. if they saw something, they probably replaced it, if they didn't and it fails, I'm sure they know they're the ones who were in there and will fix it.
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      02-25-2019, 10:14 PM   #10
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I agree with what others have said - be thankful/grateful they're doing all this work for free, valve guide seals are an $8-9K job at the dealer. I had my SA keep an oil consumption log all throughout my CPO period trying to get them to do the seals, but I didn't drive it enough to get enough entries. Long story short they finally approved 1 month out of CPO, but at least I got them fixed for free.

I told my SA I wanted to know anything else they found with the engine dropped out, knowing it would be much less $ to repair. On my 50i at 55K miles all the plastic cowling pieces behind the engine had cracked and begun falling apart from all the engine heat. I had the starter motor replaced, one of the front axle boots was leaking, and front brakes were replaced. I only paid roughly 1/3 normal dealer costs for those 4 repairs since the motor was already out. Did you end up having anything else fixed at 88K miles?

Do you have a warranty? Your repair fund seems quite low for this vehicle Even after my seals were fixed, more stuff has come up - fixing those seals was definitely needed but by no means meant this thing was going to be problem free for some long stretch of time.

Good luck, glad you got those seals replaced, that's the #1 big ticket item on the 50i. Will also make it easier to sell when that day comes, having documentation of that repair.
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      02-26-2019, 11:06 AM   #11
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[QUOTE=aloyouis;24416190]Hi all,

I called my dealer to set up a recall fix and an oil change and they informed me that the X5 was due to be inspected for the Valve Seal inspection and timing belt chain inspection.

The results of the testing are that the timing chain is tight and does not need to be replaced but they approved replacing the Valve Stem Seals. This will be done at no charge. In addition, they are covering 3 oil changes and replacing the battery at no charge.

Valve Stem? Sounds like what is on your wheels! lol.
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      02-28-2019, 06:04 PM   #12
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I think this is only for N63? is S63 part of deal?
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      03-08-2019, 11:09 AM   #13
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I wonder what the mileage limit is for the valve stem seals, because my 50 has been eating oil since I got it with 86k on it.

I have just been driving it though, and I am at 126k. I figured whenever I had a cam chain failure I would remove just the cams and do the seals with the heads on the engine.
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      03-13-2019, 10:56 AM   #14
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NO GO JOE !
they only pay a portion up to 120k miles. Its on you then... Engines aren't really that pricey considering but good luck getting one this year, oh and the labor cost is +++ too.
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      03-21-2019, 02:55 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heatmizr View Post
NO GO JOE !
they only pay a portion up to 120k miles. Its on you then... Engines aren't really that pricey considering but good luck getting one this year, oh and the labor cost is +++ too.
It is going to be a cold day in hell the day I pay someone to do that kind of repair. Knowing me I will just live with it, this is not the first daily I have had that drinks oil, but this is the first daily I have ever had that told me she needed a refill!
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      03-21-2019, 03:26 PM   #16
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Yeah I hear you... but if it gets too bad it will screw up the catalytic converters and you may not pass inspection. (Is this right?)
Then what...
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      03-21-2019, 03:33 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heatmizr View Post
Yeah I hear you... but if it gets too bad it will screw up the catalytic converters and you may not pass inspection. (Is this right?)
Then what...
Catless DP's and a tune (or Mil eliminators). My dad and I were talking about that this past weekend ridding around in it. I told him I needed a good excuse to redo the exhaust, remove the resonators, run Magnaflow mufflers, and then do Catless DP's. A few weeks ago it did have a catalyst efficiency code inactive in the computer, so I think the demise of these cats are coming very soon.

Who remembers in the early 2000s when they used to sell Mil Eliminators online? Ah the good ol' internet days before EVERYONE was on it.
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      04-02-2019, 08:25 PM   #18
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Can you please help me understand what you mean by the bank lawsuit my wife just got a 2009 BMW X5 4.8 and we took it in to BMW of Spokane and they told us that we needed $8000 worth of work on itNow mind you she just got this less than two months ago and they said the valve guide seals need to be replaced along with the cover gasket valves oh ring a whole valve gasket need to be replaced and but this was supposed to be done on January 10 of 2019 at Jaguar and Land Rover so please help me understand what you mean by bank lawsuit or how do I go about talking to the dealership but actual BMW to pay for this service and how do I find out which if my engine is the one that was recalled
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      04-03-2019, 11:27 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfred Jordan Junior View Post
Can you please help me understand what you mean by the bank lawsuit my wife just got a 2009 BMW X5 4.8 and we took it in to BMW of Spokane and they told us that we needed $8000 worth of work on itNow mind you she just got this less than two months ago and they said the valve guide seals need to be replaced along with the cover gasket valves oh ring a whole valve gasket need to be replaced and but this was supposed to be done on January 10 of 2019 at Jaguar and Land Rover so please help me understand what you mean by bank lawsuit or how do I go about talking to the dealership but actual BMW to pay for this service and how do I find out which if my engine is the one that was recalled
Lawsuit is for the 2011 and up N63 turbo engine. You have the N62.
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      04-09-2019, 04:33 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfred Jordan Junior View Post
Can you please help me understand what you mean by the bank lawsuit my wife just got a 2009 BMW X5 4.8 and we took it in to BMW of Spokane and they told us that we needed $8000 worth of work on itNow mind you she just got this less than two months ago and they said the valve guide seals need to be replaced along with the cover gasket valves oh ring a whole valve gasket need to be replaced and but this was supposed to be done on January 10 of 2019 at Jaguar and Land Rover so please help me understand what you mean by bank lawsuit or how do I go about talking to the dealership but actual BMW to pay for this service and how do I find out which if my engine is the one that was recalled
I don't think that repair is worth doing IMHO. Valve seals can be lived with when leaking. Just make a budget for additional oil, and at some point early, a catalytic converter, or a few of them. Only replace them once you start throwing codes though
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      05-15-2019, 12:18 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbakking View Post
I think this is only for N63? is S63 part of deal?


https://www.xbimmers.com/forums/show....php?t=1611893
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      05-20-2019, 10:12 AM   #22
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see my above post. Even more so with the information above.

these are just engines, if these shops are rebuilding them, someone with a good skillset, or an indy with good skills could get into them and do one for under 10k.

I am waiting for my day. a $10,000 motor would more then total my truck.
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