N63 or S63 cam gear failure? (Update Semi-rebuild)

[TwinSnailz]

Last week got off work and 2 blocks down ....Booomm!!
Check engine light- malfunction
Red -Low oil light
Engine is knocking and clattering , i was like “Fuuuuu#^#^}^ nooooooo !!
Pull off the road and luckily i had my generic obd scanner in the car.
Scanned the car and came back :
P0012 A camshaft position timing over-retarded.
Called my wife to bring me a qt of oil, I thought it was low but it was full. Things didn’t change. It sounded like a rod knock but 5x worst with the clanking and clattering. Once i gave it gas it quiet down to some degree but still a nasty noise.

So i said hell with it and limped 10 miles home safely. Nothing had gotten worst or better once back in the garage. Scanned the car again with Ista and got :
2A7F Intake variable camshaft timing control 2
2A82 VANOS intake
2A9D Crankshaft- exhaust camshaft 2- reference
2B2E rail pressure sensor plausibility

I have been researching all of which no one had any if these problem before.
Now few months back I had replaced all 4 new Febi Vanos solenoid and it ran great for the past couple thousand miles. I tore down the part of the engine to remove the vanos solenoid again and tested it immediately right out the vehicle and all are working properly. I’ve had other cars that the vanos solenoid had failed and it was nothing horrible like this. It was just a check engine light and car still ran smooth and QUIET.

I haven’t tore down the valve cover yet but with the vanos cover remove i was able to access the chain tensioner area. The chain was still nice and tight. Both Cam phaser is still there. When this happen, I was accelerating very slowly. I couldn’t understand the low oil light part. Vanos was full of oil when pulled.
Im at lost with this car now. I lost all interest on working with car as an enthusiast.

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Sorry to hear this, possible cam timing gear failure or timing chain stretch/slip. I would borescope your cylinders real quick and see if the valves have been hitting the pistons. If checks out then pull valve cover and check cam timing, hopefully just one of the gears failed and it's not the chain as they are not bad to replace. Doing the timing chains is another story...

Low oil is odd, hopefully it's just BS code but I hate how BMW never puts in Oil pressure gauges so we are always in the dark guessing. I'm installing one this weekend, I'll post up walkthrough on it after I'm done for n63/s63.

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Actually after reading your post again since it affects two cams on same bank, pointing towards timing chain stretch and it jumped on the crank hub since each side has its own chain. If you unbolt your oilfill neck from the valve cover, you can see the top of one of the chains and give you an idea of how it's been wearing but ultimately you'll need to pull the valve covers and check the cam timing to know for sure

[TwinSnailz]

Thanks mr.rednex.
I’ll update this once i get everything off and the special tools in.

[TwinSnailz]

Okay......
Intake adjustable cam sprocket was seized/locked up on retarded position as mentioned earlier 1st post code pulled. Not sure how that happened as these things are just spring loaded. I opened it up and everything looks to be nothing out of the ordinary. Removing the central bolt to the cam sprocket on the intake was a lot harder than the exhaust for being torque down 30nm+90 degree.
Ordered 4 new ones to change both bank.

Further inspection, chain guides were broken ahhhh!! This was only on 1 bank. Haven’t have time to open the other yet.

Question for Mr.Rednex:
Do you think I’m able to remove the timing cover without removing the head? I was searching and saw a picture of a shop doing a timing chain job with the head still intact. I guess just sliding the cover out?

[Thecastle]

How many miles on your x5m?

[TwinSnailz]

Originally Posted by Thecastle

How many miles on your x5m?

98k

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by TwinSnailz

Okay......
Intake adjustable cam sprocket was seized/locked up on retarded position as mentioned earlier 1st post code pulled. Not sure how that happened as these things are just spring loaded. I opened it up and everything looks to be nothing out of the ordinary. Removing the central bolt to the cam sprocket on the intake was a lot harder than the exhaust for being torque down 30nm+90 degree.
Ordered 4 new ones to change both bank.

Further inspection, chain guides were broken ahhhh!! This was only on 1 bank. Haven’t have time to open the other yet.

Question for Mr.Rednex:
Do you think I’m able to remove the timing cover without removing the head? I was searching and saw a picture of a shop doing a timing chain job with the head still intact. I guess just sliding the cover out?

I think its worth a shot as pulling the heads in car is not a fun job. The head gaskets do reach into the timing chain cover but that part of the gasket is not sealing any combustion gasses and just needs to be oil tight so I think s very light coating of rtv (paper thin) will work just fine when putting back together. If memory serves, BMW has you use rtv sealant in that area anyway when you pull the heads as I remember having to use some there.

Did you have a chance to borescope your cylinders to ensure no piston/valve damage?

[TwinSnailz]

Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck

I think its worth a shot as pulling the heads in car is not a fun job. The head gaskets do reach into the timing chain cover but that part of the gasket is not sealing any combustion gasses and just needs to be oil tight so I think s very light coating of rtv (paper thin) will work just fine when putting back together. If memory serves, BMW has you use rtv sealant in that area anyway when you pull the heads as I remember having to use some there.

Did you have a chance to borescope your cylinders to ensure no piston/valve damage?

Yea, im trying to avoid the cylinder head removal at all cost. Current job is already kicking my ass.
I forgot to scope the cylinder after i had removed the sprockets already. I would assume its ok as the timing was in full retard , which is at its cam limit.

[BigHunk]

There is updated oil pump for S63 engines.
Also definitely scope all 8 cylinders for damage or to confirm there is no damage.

[TwinSnailz]

Originally Posted by BigHunk

There is updated oil pump for S63 engines.
Also definitely scope all 8 cylinders for damage or to confirm there is no damage.

I already change to the revise oil pump 3256 a while back. I don’t think there’s much failure with the oil pump. The revised pump was due to the whining/buzzing noise that a lot of people complaining.

[TwinSnailz]

Looks like the cylinder head needs to come out. The front cover is not budging(sorry for any folks wanting to do just timing chain job).


Mr.Rednex got any tips???

Anyone removing the harmonic balancer, you’ll need at least 6-7 foot cheater bar.
I’ve heard of the crank bolt being called Jesus bolt but this was more like Thor bolt. Factory torque 75ftlb + 180 degrees + 10yrs rust = 1,000 ftlb

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by TwinSnailz

Looks like the cylinder head needs to come out. The front cover is not budging(sorry for any folks wanting to do just timing chain job).


Mr.Rednex got any tips???

Anyone removing the harmonic balancer, you’ll need at least 6-7 foot cheater bar.
I’ve heard of the crank bolt being called Jesus bolt but this was more like Thor bolt. Factory torque 75ftlb + 180 degrees + 10yrs rust = 1,000 ftlb

Damn, sorry to hear that. If you got the two reverse torx bolts inside the head that go down into the timing cover out on each side, I would think you could pull it straight out. If not then pulling the heads is rough doing it in vehicle, if you have to pull the heads let me know I will give you some tips as you have to pull the lower intakes off before you can remove the heads to get enough clearance to raise the head up out of the truck.

[TwinSnailz]

Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck

Damn, sorry to hear that. If you got the two reverse torx bolts inside the head that go down into the timing cover out on each side, I would think you could pull it straight out. If not then pulling the heads is rough doing it in vehicle, if you have to pull the heads let me know I will give you some tips as you have to pull the lower intakes off before you can remove the heads to get enough clearance to raise the head up out of the truck.

Yes i got the two torx inside the head out. I believe there is still pressure on the cylinder head as well. Only thing is that there is nothing for you to grab on or any leverage to pull it straight out and i mean straight out as there’s no clearance whatsoever to wiggle.

The intake manifold was questionable as i was observing. But yea this is my journey now. Thanks

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by TwinSnailz

Yes i got the two torx inside the head out. I believe there is still pressure on the cylinder head as well. Only thing is that there is nothing for you to grab on or any leverage to pull it straight out and i mean straight out as there’s no clearance whatsoever to wiggle.

The intake manifold was questionable as i was observing. But yea this is my journey now. Thanks

Well on the plus side you can decarbonize the intake ports and do the valve stem seals (if needed) while the heads are off. Might as well replace your vacuum pump too, I think they are still on sale through BMW for 58 dollars (normally 400). You will definitely need a borecam to assist with getting the intake nuts and studs out. Once the nuts and studs are out, don't try to lift the intakes out until the heads are out, there's not enough clearance to get them out (believe me I tried) and there is a hidden wire loom on each side of the intake that runs the wires for the knock sensors that you need to disconnect once the heads are out.

[TwinSnailz]

Thanks Mr.Rednex

There are 2 hidden bolts on the rear of the head that is attach to the downpipe heat shield. I was struggling as to what was still holding it down. Had to googled a picture of the cylinder head and there it was. This was a one man job for me so I had to climb in the engine bay to lift the head out as there was no leverage support strength from standing outside. I am 6ft by the way and was standing/sitting in the valley of the motor

Everything looks good. Valves and piston is perfect. Pieces of chain guided was everywhere. Im assuming that some of it was clogging the oil pump pick up screen which explains for low oil pressure. But that will be another day.
Im too deep in this repair already so might as well change out the rod bearings too.
Im thinking King bearing Tri metal or back to oem bi-metal bearings.
Both don’t seem to last long at all.

[Autobacs]

Wow, amazing. Have not had any problems at all, 12K miles and 1 1/2 years into ownership of X5M, 76K miles total.

For sure, this quashes any thoughts I have of not needing my aftermarket warranty, LOL.

Good Luck!

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by TwinSnailz

Thanks Mr.Rednex

There are 2 hidden bolts on the rear of the head that is attach to the downpipe heat shield. I was struggling as to what was still holding it down. Had to googled a picture of the cylinder head and there it was. This was a one man job for me so I had to climb in the engine bay to lift the head out as there was no leverage support strength from standing outside. I am 6ft by the way and was standing/sitting in the valley of the motor

Everything looks good. Valves and piston is perfect. Pieces of chain guided was everywhere. Im assuming that some of it was clogging the oil pump pick up screen which explains for low oil pressure. But that will be another day.
Im too deep in this repair already so might as well change out the rod bearings too.
Im thinking King bearing Tri metal or back to oem bi-metal bearings.
Both don’t seem to last long at all.

Congrats on getting it apart! I remember those heat shield bolts now, pain in the butt. The heat shields will come back to haunt you when you are putting the heads back on and trying to align the heads on the block alignment pins, bend them out of the way or remove them before putting the heads back on.

Also when you are lowering the heads back on the engine, you have to tie/tape the timing chain guides and chains as narrow together as possible to feed it through the head when you lower it back on. It will just clear with the angle you have to lower the heads on to avoid the shock towers. If possible, have another person help you, if not then doing from standing on the engine might be easier, I did from the side and I think I am still sore from it, those heads get freaking heavy after awhile.

BTW, I just added an oil pressure gauge to mine, soooo nice being able to see the oil pressure (it hits over 100psi on cold start, 30-40psi at idle, 60-80+psi when stepping on it depending on rpm). You would think with performance models, especially on the M, that oil pressure gauges would be included stock.

Working on a custom circuit now to convert signals from the pressure sensor to work with DME so the factory low pressure signal will still function. I am making it adjustable the factory BMW low oil pressure warning is set at 7psi, which might as well be useless.

I will do a write-up and I am going to make some extra signal converters for anyone else that wants to add an oil pressure gauge to their N63/S63 once I am done testing but since you already have yours torn down, if you want to add one now let me know and I will PM you the details.

[TwinSnailz]

Originally Posted by BigHunk

There is updated oil pump for S63 engines.
Also definitely scope all 8 cylinders for damage or to confirm there is no damage.

I take back my last reply to you with my foot in my mouth.
Just removed the oil pump and further inspection of the pump, the shaft that connects to the 3 prong drive is f-d up. The nut(reverse thread btw) that locks it down was turn without moving the shaft. The gear thing that supposed to spin the shaft is spinning 2 revolution before it catches the shaft. Which is wierd.
Annnddd this was a new pump 11417643256 with less than 10k miles. ! $500 bucks

Im beginning to think Bmw parts is the biggest piece of 💩!!!!! After im done fixing this , im driving it down an active volcano 🌋

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by TwinSnailz

I take back my last reply to you with my foot in my mouth.
Just removed the oil pump and further inspection of the pump, the shaft that connects to the 3 prong drive is f-d up. The nut(reverse thread btw) that locks it down was turn without moving the shaft. The gear thing that supposed to spin the shaft is spinning 2 revolution before it catches the shaft. Which is wierd.
Annnddd this was a new pump 11417643256 with less than 10k miles. ! $500 bucks

Im beginning to think Bmw parts is the biggest piece of 💩!!!!! After im done fixing this , im driving it down an active volcano 🌋

Wow that is scary, is the shaft keyed/splined at all or is just the nut tightness all that makes it turn?

[TwinSnailz]

Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck

Wow that is scary, is the shaft keyed/splined at all or is just the nut tightness all that makes it turn?

I was unable to remove the nut because the center part would spin with it without spinning the internal pump, if that makes any sense. According to tis manual there is a flat hex piece and it ask “ to check for damage”. Probably a frequent common problem.
Anyhow manage to get the upper oil pan off. To me, it’s worst than removing the cylinder head.
Just remove cylinder 1 rod bearing to check the size. Which was std. I was surprised to see the lower bearing has more wear than the upper. The crank was in great shape.
Going to go with oem bearings as the other were all race tri-metal bearings which I don’t intend on rebuilding anytime soon.

Bottom is lower bearing.

[Dawgz]

So, the oil pump failed?