2012 5.0 - intermittent smoke from the exhaust?

[SlowX6M]

2012 5.0 with 63k miles. Was consuming oil excessively, so 3k miles ago the dealer replaced valve seals under warranty, plus replaced all the gaskets, turbo oil and coolant lines. This was back in late December or early January.

The car still consumes a quart of oil every 1000 miles, even after the procedure, however there is something else I've been noticing. Once in a while there is smoke coming out of the exhaust pipes, and the smoke is rather white in color, not blue that is usual for oil burning. Last night when I arrived home and shut down the car, I noticed there was still smoke coming out of the pipes when I got out of the car. I turned the car back on and stood outside and observed heavy white smoke coming out of both pipes as the car idled. The smoke had a burnt smell to it.

This morning when I started the car I noticed a large puff of blueish smoke come out of the pipes. By the time I got to work (10 mile drive) the smoke stopped, and I let the car idle for 20 or so minutes while I was observing it - no smoke at all.

Later on today I was at my friends house, when I was leaving I started the car and white smoke was once again coming out of the pipes. I asked him to rev the car a few times while I observed the pipes - some puffs of blue smoke came out the first few times he revved it, and then stopped, and no smoke was coming out as he revved the car. I arrived home and checked the pipes while the car was idling - no smoke.

I am at a complete loss here. Could it be as simple as a PCV valve issue maybe?

[SlowX6M]

PS - its done this before, I noticed it sometimes having white smoke from the exhaust, even before the dealer did the whole big repair job.

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by SlowX6M

PS - its done this before, I noticed it sometimes having white smoke from the exhaust, even before the dealer did the whole big repair job.

Check your CCV system, ask your dealer If any of the lines where replaced, they all go bad in the 60-90k range as they are cheap plastic, if not have them all replaced. It's not a bad job If you work on stuff yourself except for the driver's side lower Intake line, that one is nasty.

Also have a cylinder leak-down test performed. If the valve seals were done right and the CCV system is ok, then other possible cause is worn piston rings. I doubt it something like a cracked head/coolant leak since your still burning so much oil still.

One last final thought is shot turbo seals but at 63k that would be pretty unlikely, partially clogged turbo oil return lines can also cause this but you mentioned they replaced those already.. double check with dealer that they did.

[SlowX6M]

Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck

Check your CCV system, ask your dealer If any of the lines where replaced, they all go bad in the 60-90k range as they are cheap plastic, if not have them all replaced. It's not a bad job If you work on stuff yourself except for the driver's side lower Intake line, that one is nasty.

Also have a cylinder leak-down test performed. If the valve seals were done right and the CCV system is ok, then other possible cause is worn piston rings. I doubt it something like a cracked head/coolant leak since your still burning so much oil still.

One last final thought is shot turbo seals but at 63k that would be pretty unlikely, partially clogged turbo oil return lines can also cause this but you mentioned they replaced those already.. double check with dealer that they did.

Thank your for the advice. I just checked my maintenance record, and it seems that CCV was replaced in May 2015 as a part of the injector recall, when the car had only 17k miles. It's been 45k miles and a bit over 5 years since then, I wonder if its failing again. I also see that all of the parts on of the CCV have been revised since the repair.

Installed (1) B1-Connecting Line 11-15-8-645-237 - superseded by 11-15-7-646-086
Installed (1) B1-Vent pipe 11-15-8-645-238 - superseded by 11-15-7-575-640
Installed (1) B1-Connecting Line 11-15-8-645-239 - superseded by 11-15-7-646-087
Installed (1) B1-Vent pipe 11-15-8-645-240 - superseded by 11-15-7-575-641

^These older parts were replaced in 2015. When they were doing valve seals earlier this year, they also replaced these parts as well, so I doubt its the turbos. Also, I checked the oil, its absolutely clear, so no coolant in oil.

• Installed (1) Battery 61-21-2-353-814
• Installed (100) LL-01 OIL 83-21-2-455-135
• Installed (1) B1RRSA-Set oil filter 11-42-7-583-220
• Installed (1) B-B1SA Antifreeze 82-14-1-467-704
• Installed (1) Hydraulic fluid 83-29-0-429-576
• Installed (2) Valve repair kit 11-34-0-054-492
• Installed (1) Oil separator 11-15-8-636-540 included valve cover gaskets
• Installed (2) timing cover gasket 11-12-7-566-281
• Installed (2) valvetronic profile gasket 11-12-8-636-401
• Installed (4) Central screw 11-36-7-564-346
• Installed (8) Gasket ring injector seal 13-53-7-584-315
• Installed (8) Decoupling element injector 13-53-7-564-751
• Installed (2) O-ring 11-42-7-578-079

• Installed (1) Solenoid valve 11-36-8-605-123
• Installed (1) Connecting line crank case ventilation 11-15-7-646-087
• Installed (1) Turbo oil return pipe 11-42-7-577-010
• Installed (1) Turbo oil return pipe 11-42-7-577-011
• Installed (2) Asbestos gasket 11-42-8-624-158
• Installed (4) Gasket ring 07-11-9-963-072
• Installed (3) Gasket ring 07-11-9-963-129
• Installed (2) Screw clamp 11-65-7-620-507
• Installed (2) Screw clamp 11-65-7-620-508
• Installed (2) Gasket 11-62-7-576-991
• Installed (2) Gasket 18-30-7-553-601
• Installed (1) Inlet hose turbo coolant supply 11-53-7-577-012
• Installed (1) Inlet hose turbo coolant supply 11-53-7-577-013
• Installed (1) Return hose turbo coolant return 11-53-7-577-014
• Installed (1) Return hose turbo coolant return 11-53-7-577-015
• Installed (3) Hose clamp 11-15-1-726-339

^ These parts were replaced earlier this year, and I see they did one of the connecting hoses this time as well, but not the other one, and not the secondary set of hoses. Probably determined that the one they replaced was failing.

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by SlowX6M

Thank your for the advice. I just checked my maintenance record, and it seems that CCV was replaced in May 2015 as a part of the injector recall, when the car had only 17k miles. It's been 45k miles and a bit over 5 years since then, I wonder if its failing again. I also see that all of the parts on of the CCV have been revised since the repair.

Installed (1) B1-Connecting Line 11-15-8-645-237 - superseded by 11-15-7-646-086
Installed (1) B1-Vent pipe 11-15-8-645-238 - superseded by 11-15-7-575-640
Installed (1) B1-Connecting Line 11-15-8-645-239 - superseded by 11-15-7-646-087
Installed (1) B1-Vent pipe 11-15-8-645-240 - superseded by 11-15-7-575-641

^These older parts were replaced in 2015. When they were doing valve seals earlier this year, they also replaced these parts as well, so I doubt its the turbos. Also, I checked the oil, its absolutely clear, so no coolant in oil.

• Installed (1) Battery 61-21-2-353-814
• Installed (100) LL-01 OIL 83-21-2-455-135
• Installed (1) B1RRSA-Set oil filter 11-42-7-583-220
• Installed (1) B-B1SA Antifreeze 82-14-1-467-704
• Installed (1) Hydraulic fluid 83-29-0-429-576
• Installed (2) Valve repair kit 11-34-0-054-492
• Installed (1) Oil separator 11-15-8-636-540 included valve cover gaskets
• Installed (2) timing cover gasket 11-12-7-566-281
• Installed (2) valvetronic profile gasket 11-12-8-636-401
• Installed (4) Central screw 11-36-7-564-346
• Installed (8) Gasket ring injector seal 13-53-7-584-315
• Installed (8) Decoupling element injector 13-53-7-564-751
• Installed (2) O-ring 11-42-7-578-079

• Installed (1) Solenoid valve 11-36-8-605-123
• Installed (1) Connecting line crank case ventilation 11-15-7-646-087
• Installed (1) Turbo oil return pipe 11-42-7-577-010
• Installed (1) Turbo oil return pipe 11-42-7-577-011
• Installed (2) Asbestos gasket 11-42-8-624-158
• Installed (4) Gasket ring 07-11-9-963-072
• Installed (3) Gasket ring 07-11-9-963-129
• Installed (2) Screw clamp 11-65-7-620-507
• Installed (2) Screw clamp 11-65-7-620-508
• Installed (2) Gasket 11-62-7-576-991
• Installed (2) Gasket 18-30-7-553-601
• Installed (1) Inlet hose turbo coolant supply 11-53-7-577-012
• Installed (1) Inlet hose turbo coolant supply 11-53-7-577-013
• Installed (1) Return hose turbo coolant return 11-53-7-577-014
• Installed (1) Return hose turbo coolant return 11-53-7-577-015
• Installed (3) Hose clamp 11-15-1-726-339

^ These parts were replaced earlier this year, and I see they did one of the connecting hoses this time as well, but not the other one, and not the secondary set of hoses. Probably determined that the one they replaced was failing.

Very possible they are failing again, it greatly depends on the kind of driving. If this is stuck in alot of stop and go traffic then these parts wear out much faster then if the truck sees only highway miles.

The E70 50i and M have one of the most complex CCV systems. It is a two stage system, at idle and part throttle it uses engine vacuum to pull fumes from the crankcase, under boost it switches to pull the fumes using the The venturi tubes attached to the upper intake manifolds. To facilitate this, CCV Tubes (part#: 11-15-7-646-086 & 087) have multiple valves located inside it. It is made from cheap plastic and should the internal valve fail, it will pressurize your crankcase during boost conditions which will greatly increase oil consumption.

There is no easy way to test for this short of drilling and tapping your oil cap and installing a vacuum gauge, running the line into the cab, then driving around to see what the pressures are under idle, cruise, and acceleration.

It would be easier just to replace them as even if they are not bad, it will eliminate one more variable and they are sure to fail within the next year or two anyway.

I would also highly reccomend having a compression leak down test performed, if the engine is out of spec (which would cause a great deal of the oil consumption you are experiencing), you may be able to have the entire engine replaced by BMW since your have such low miles.

[SlowX6M]

Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck

Very possible they are failing again, it greatly depends on the kind of driving. If this is stuck in alot of stop and go traffic then these parts wear out much faster then if the truck sees only highway miles.

The E70 50i and M have one of the most complex CCV systems. It is a two stage system, at idle and part throttle it uses engine vacuum to pull fumes from the crankcase, under boost it switches to pull the fumes using the The venturi tubes attached to the upper intake manifolds. To facilitate this, CCV Tubes (part#: 11-15-7-646-086 & 087) have multiple valves located inside it. It is made from cheap plastic and should the internal valve fail, it will pressurize your crankcase during boost conditions which will greatly increase oil consumption.

There is no easy way to test for this short of drilling and tapping your oil cap and installing a vacuum gauge, running the line into the cab, then driving around to see what the pressures are under idle, cruise, and acceleration.

It would be easier just to replace them as even if they are not bad, it will eliminate one more variable and they are sure to fail within the next year or two anyway.

I would also highly reccomend having a compression leak down test performed, if the engine is out of spec (which would cause a great deal of the oil consumption you are experiencing), you may be able to have the entire engine replaced by BMW since your have such low miles.

Thank you again for the information. I have ordered the new parts and I will have my independent shop do the the replacement, and I will inquire with them about cost and complexity of the leak down test, but I am kind of hoping that its the CCV that has been causing the issue. The smoke from the exhaust is very intermittent, it only happens sometimes - for instance today I was driving the car very hard and not even a hint of smoke, clear exhaust all day. I am thinking if it were valve seals or piston rings, the smoke would be consistent.

Regarding the engine, after they did the valve seals, the car went through a quart of oil in about a thousand miles, I complained to them, they did an oil change for me and said if the car goes through a quart in under 750-1000 they are going to request BMW to approve engine replacement. I've driven about 1,500 miles since then, and the oil level just dropped a notch, about 1/4 of the way, but I have a feeling they overfilled the oil so they don't have to deal with it. I am waiting for the oil to drop the full quart, I will record the mileage, top it off with a quart, and then see how long it takes for it to get consumed.

But then again, maybe it's just as simple as the CCV that has been causing it all along.

[SlowX6M]

Here's the video that I recorded the other night when I noticed the smoke. It was after an extensive drive, so the engine was nice and warm. After it a smoke puff the next morning, and then a few smoke puffs after I was leaving my friends house last night, but absolutely no smoke today - not at cold start, not during driving, not during idling with engine warmed up, just clear air out of the exhaust. And also, no smell, the other night when it was smoking it had a very specific burnt smell to it. It wasn't your typical classic burnt oil smell, but then modern synthetic oil probably doesn't even produce the same smell when burning as old mineral oils.

[RichardH]

Remove the fitting where the pcv pipe goes into the valve cover and check if there's oil in it.

[SlowX6M]

My mechanic checked the CCV and said he couldn't in good faith take my money to replace it, he said it is working properly. Wonder what else could be causing intermittent smoke from the exhaust - leaking turbo?

[sidewaysat11]

Originally Posted by SlowX6M

Here's the video that I recorded the other night when I noticed the smoke. It was after an extensive drive, so the engine was nice and warm. After it a smoke puff the next morning, and then a few smoke puffs after I was leaving my friends house last night, but absolutely no smoke today - not at cold start, not during driving, not during idling with engine warmed up, just clear air out of the exhaust. And also, no smell, the other night when it was smoking it had a very specific burnt smell to it. It wasn't your typical classic burnt oil smell, but then modern synthetic oil probably doesn't even produce the same smell when burning as old mineral oils.

Funny, I get this too! Brand New Valve seals and Turbo's done at the dealer.
It's not an oil smell to be honest and it's quite unique, almost like a wet of moldy smell and definitely doesn't smell like oil. It only comes on intermittently after long idle. Been scratching my head about it for quite some time. I've been wondering if it has to do with the A/C system. It's been hot and noticed every time this happens my A/C has been on.

I recently changed my Upstream O2 sensors (both) and it seems to have gone away. But it's hard to replicate this consistently. The other day I idled for at least 20 minutes after doing the O2 sensors and this did not happen again. It's so hard to predict, we'll see.

Another thing to scratch my head at has been the sulfur smell. Do you get a sulfur smell at all from time to time? No smoke.

[SlowX6M]

Originally Posted by sidewaysat11

Funny, I get this too! Brand New Valve seals and Turbo's done at the dealer.
It's not an oil smell to be honest and it's quite unique, almost like a wet of moldy smell and definitely doesn't smell like oil. It only comes on intermittently after long idle. Been scratching my head about it for quite some time. I've been wondering if it has to do with the A/C system. It's been hot and noticed every time this happens my A/C has been on.

I recently changed my Upstream O2 sensors (both) and it seems to have gone away. But it's hard to replicate this consistently. The other day I idled for at least 20 minutes after doing the O2 sensors and this did not happen again. It's so hard to predict, we'll see.

Another thing to scratch my head at has been the sulfur smell. Do you get a sulfur smell at all from time to time? No smoke.

Yes, get the sulfur smell more often than not, but its not strong, very slight hint - you literally have to bend down to the exhaust pipe and smell it to sense it.

I haven't had this smoke since the original post, but when it was smoking, it was more like a burning smell, not necessary oil, more like electronic burning smell or something. And yes, even before the valve seals replacement I've noticed this smoke, and it was during very hot weather.

I bought all new CCV hoses, but haven't got around getting them replaced yet. Last time my mechanic said CCV system is working properly, so I am waiting when (and if) the car start to smoke again, so I can bring it to him to have another look.

[sidewaysat11]

Originally Posted by SlowX6M

Yes, get the sulfur smell more often than not, but its not strong, very slight hint - you literally have to bend down to the exhaust pipe and smell it to sense it.

I haven't had this smoke since the original post, but when it was smoking, it was more like a burning smell, not necessary oil, more like electronic burning smell or something. And yes, even before the valve seals replacement I've noticed this smoke, and it was during very hot weather.

I bought all new CCV hoses, but haven't got around getting them replaced yet. Last time my mechanic said CCV system is working properly, so I am waiting when (and if) the car start to smoke again, so I can bring it to him to have another look.

Maybe it has something to do with being a very hot day and the AC being on. I think the smell is similar to what I was smelling as well. Predicting when it's going to happen is difficult.

[SlowX6M]

Originally Posted by sidewaysat11

Maybe it has something to do with being a very hot day and the AC being on. I think the smell is similar to what I was smelling as well. Predicting when it's going to happen is difficult.

Maybe the turbo seal leaking and dumping oil into the exhaust where it burns off?

[sidewaysat11]

Originally Posted by SlowX6M

Maybe the turbo seal leaking and dumping oil into the exhaust where it burns off?

Turbos are brand new.

[SlowX6M]

Originally Posted by sidewaysat11

Turbos are brand new.

Thats pretty crazy. How is your CCV system?

Maybe it isn't oil afterall, maybe its excess gas from the injectors? That would explain the constant sulfur smell also.

[pearlpower]

Mine spit out a ton of smoke until I replaced the turbo intake pipes (CCV system). Not a single issue since.

[sidewaysat11]

Originally Posted by SlowX6M

Thats pretty crazy. How is your CCV system?

Maybe it isn't oil afterall, maybe its excess gas from the injectors? That would explain the constant sulfur smell also.

For sure it's not oil. It smells weird, different. I wonder if it has to do with the AC being on, on hot days. It's hard to replicate also, it's very random. Always while idling on a hot day with the AC on. Goes away as soon as I start driving and then hard to reproduce.

[SlowX6M]

Originally Posted by sidewaysat11

For sure it's not oil. It smells weird, different. I wonder if it has to do with the AC being on, on hot days. It's hard to replicate also, it's very random. Always while idling on a hot day with the AC on. Goes away as soon as I start driving and then hard to reproduce.

There is nothing in the AC that is connected to the exhaust.

[sidewaysat11]

Originally Posted by SlowX6M

There is nothing in the AC that is connected to the exhaust.

I understand that, I'm just saying that this issue typically arises during idle and A/C on.