X5M Ownership Difficulty: Reduced Power Engine Malfunction

[mr____p]

Hello all,

I have recently acquired a 2011 e70 BMW x5m s63 jb4 with 130k miles for about 10k.

I want to say first off I love this car, but I WISH oh I WISH I wouldn't have impulsively bought it and done more research.


One day after getting coolant hoses fixed off the turbo from a shop, picking it up and getting on the free way home I got a few low boost codes with the "engine malfunction" light coming on in 2-3rd gear at WOT (getting on freeway)

The JB4 is not connected.

This was after it having worked on at a shop in Bakersfield, CA (European Performance Automotive) for the coolant leak hose fixes.

I had the car for a few days prior and at WOT - NO CODES.

This car has no idle issues.

Got back to Vegas, had the car looked at

310B charging pressure control 2
30FF Charging pressure control boost pressure too low
30CB By pass blow off valve 2 activation

& some of the hoses were still leaking... (EAP in Bakersfield refunded me in full for the poor work)

To me, I have that in mind that a boost leak of some sort. Especially because the problem happened after a shop worked on it. Could it just be a coincidence ?

Las Vegas Indy shop (BMW ONLY) said it was a intercooler piping duct so they changed that. It did not solve the issue.

The had mentioned that they tried adjusting the wastegate to compensate for the pressure issue. Apparently his words were "its not building enough boost" and was holding about 8-9 psi in which should be to see 12-13psi.

He said the car is fast, but could be a lot faster.

I had the indy shop do a few things to verify boost leaks. They vacuum tested the system and found that it held vacuum, and the shop said he was 95% sure it was the turbos. They also adjust the turbo waste gates to accommodate for the pressure loss.


The car is fast, but I too agree not 550 hp fast. It is the most frustrating thing ever when that light comes on, these cars are meant to be driven!

I really cant hear the turbo spooling, I cant really hear a blow off valve?

I am completley new to these motors. I have a e39 6speed 540i and clearly more reliable being 20 years old!

I have a BMW service appointment for a recall tomorrow morning, and Im going to get a second opinion and make sure it can be verified to be worn turbos. Hoping they can get a scope into the turbo and see if there is any wear.

I just want to be EXTRA sure before I fork out any more of my SKRILL for this BEAUTIFUL "MUST HAVE" SPORTS SUV.

If it is turbos, I will hope to see evidence of it and will be sending them to Turbo Lab of America and also get the rod bearings (huge fear) done.

I will keep you guys updated on this issue.



- Engine Malfunction Light in 3rd gear(mostly) 2nd gear (rarely) under boost (4k-7k rpm).
This isnt a problem that happens 100% of the time, but I would say 85% of the time.

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Very nice ride and If you picked it up for 10k then you got a great deal on it, even with 130k HOWEVER you are in for a rough ride (pun intended) unless you get a warranty or work on it yourself.

It is a very complex machine (did you know your ride has 5 water pumps, 4 fuel pumps and 9 heat exchangers?) that orginally cost over 100k and it's parts are not cheap.... With that being said, here is what you need to do.

I am going to assume you have already checked all intake connections for leaks/holes/connection issues so:

First, test your wastegates. If they are not fully and tightly closed at -10psi (use vaccum hand pump to test), then they need to be rebuilt.

If the wastegates checkout then next up replace your two CCV tubes that run to the lower intakes manifolds. (One on each side). They are cheap corrugated plastic and notorious for cracking and only leaking under boost, not vacuum.

If still issues after this, replace your diverter valves, these get old and leak boost back into the intake, it would never show up on a vaccum test.

If still issues then replace the rest of the CCV lines, there are check valves in the upper lines that can go bad and leak boost into the crankcase.

If after all of this you still have issues then it's time to for the REALLY big stuff: pulling turbos and checking to see if they need to be rebuilt and checking your lower intake manifolds (requires engine removal).

Oh btw, unless they have been done in the past 50k, replace all of your coils and plugs now too. You will thank me later. Use Eldor coils and ngk 1 or 2 step colder plugs

[Sophisticated Redneck]

One last thing: the jb4 can datalog. Check your turbo boost pressure against the left and right bank. If one is significantly off from the other then it will help with trouble shooting. If memory serves the stock boost is 16 to 18psi depending on temp

[frankenm]

Wow these are only going for super cheap if u got it for 10k

You better be ready to spend that in getting it running correctly ... not even kidding

[frankenm]

Turbos fail after 100k wastegates go out

I replaced mine with the m5 turbos and manifold, much better than having rebuilt and using stock setup

https://www.xbimmers.com/forums/show...5&postcount=60

[X5 MAN]

Hello all,

I have recently acquired a 2011 e70 BMW x5m s63 jb4 with 130k miles for about 10k.

You just purchased the most expensive used car in the world . Be prepared to pour money into it

[mr____p]

Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck

Very nice ride and If you picked it up for 10k then you got a great deal on it, even with 130k HOWEVER you are in for a rough ride (pun intended) unless you get a warranty or work on it yourself.

It is a very complex machine (did you know your ride has 5 water pumps, 4 fuel pumps and 9 heat exchangers?) that orginally cost over 100k and it's parts are not cheap.... With that being said, here is what you need to do.

I am going to assume you have already checked all intake connections for leaks/holes/connection issues so:

First, test your wastegates. If they are not fully and tightly closed at -10psi (use vaccum hand pump to test), then they need to be rebuilt.

If the wastegates checkout then next up replace your two CCV tubes that run to the lower intakes manifolds. (One on each side). They are cheap corrugated plastic and notorious for cracking and only leaking under boost, not vacuum.

If still issues after this, replace your diverter valves, these get old and leak boost back into the intake, it would never show up on a vaccum test.

If still issues then replace the rest of the CCV lines, there are check valves in the upper lines that can go bad and leak boost into the crankcase.

If after all of this you still have issues then it's time to for the REALLY big stuff: pulling turbos and checking to see if they need to be rebuilt and checking your lower intake manifolds (requires engine removal).

Oh btw, unless they have been done in the past 50k, replace all of your coils and plugs now too. You will thank me later. Use Eldor coils and ngk 1 or 2 step colder plugs

Thank you very much for your very valuable input.

I just dropped the vehicle off at BMW Henderson, Its in the shop foremans hands now. They will prob start another smoke test but Id advised them that I would like to get the waste gates tested after. I will work my way through the basics before I go to major.

[mr____p]

Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck

One last thing: the jb4 can datalog. Check your turbo boost pressure against the left and right bank. If one is significantly off from the other then it will help with trouble shooting. If memory serves the stock boost is 16 to 18psi depending on temp

Interesting. I remember the indy shop saying it was only one turbo that wasnt holding boost (bank 2)

[mr____p]

Originally Posted by frankenm

Wow these are only going for super cheap if u got it for 10k

You better be ready to spend that in getting it running correctly ... not even kidding

I just negotiated it very well. On the test drive I could smell the coolant leak.

I would very much be happy to put another 10k into the car. I just don't want to do run arounds and still have drivability issues. I want to make sure everything is done correct and by the book, without just spending and hoping something is going to fix it.

[mr____p]

Originally Posted by X5 MAN

Hello all,

I have recently acquired a 2011 e70 BMW x5m s63 jb4 with 130k miles for about 10k.

You just purchased the most expensive used car in the world . Be prepared to pour money into it

LOL, tell me about it.

[mr____p]

Originally Posted by frankenm

Turbos fail after 100k wastegates go out

I replaced mine with the m5 turbos and manifold, much better than having rebuilt and using stock setup

https://www.xbimmers.com/forums/show...5&postcount=60

Thanks for the info. I was thinking with this mileage it could be fersure be turbo related.

Did you yank them out to confirm they were worn? Or did you have sufficient evidence by testing? I would love to know how you pin pointed the problem

[mr____p]

Update !

Just got a call from the dealership.

The verdict were 3 main issues

1. Vacuum pump was reading 8-9 psi . It should be reading 24 psi + as to spec

2. Found kinked vacuum lines (unbelievable)

3. Turbo waste gate pressure converters both of them are failing.

I requested pinpoint diagnostics and technician notes with exact part numbers and labors for a breakdown.

[frankenm]

Good luck with the stealer ....

I took out the stock s63 crap out, put in the m5 turbos, new crankcase system with catch cans, I have some intakes and chargepipes I put together myself have over 3k miles on it already

Have had the truck for almost 5 years now and chased that fucking engine malfunction forever... truck is more reliable now than ever.

[mr____p]

Originally Posted by frankenm

Good luck with the stealer ....

I took out the stock s63 crap out, put in the m5 turbos, new crankcase system with catch cans, I have some intakes and chargepipes I put together myself have over 3k miles on it already

Have had the truck for almost 5 years now and chased that fucking engine malfunction forever... truck is more reliable now than ever.

I know man, I saw your build. Very nice. Got a link to how you pulled it off?


I was quoted by the dealership $4,900 in repairs which seems outrageous.
The must not know I was a technician for 5 years.

I will plan on doing the boost solenoids (pressure converters) myself, since I believe they are relatively an easy fix. The look to be $70-90 a a piece, and I believe they sit on top of the engine.

I may do the vaccum pump as well, from my understanding it is just the key in the pump that may be a PITA to line up, is there anything major that needs to be removed for that vaccum pump on the s63? Can it be done form up top or better under neath ?

As far as leaking hoses, I may have a shop do them depending on the difficulty of it.

$5k just seems unrealistic for these repairs, especially if you know to turn a wrench.

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by pipsniperr

I know man, I saw your build. Very nice. Got a link to how you pulled it off?


I was quoted by the dealership $4,900 in repairs which seems outrageous.
The must not know I was a technician for 5 years.

I will plan on doing the boost solenoids (pressure converters) myself, since I believe they are relatively an easy fix. The look to be $70-90 a a piece, and I believe they sit on top of the engine.

I may do the vaccum pump as well, from my understanding it is just the key in the pump that may be a PITA to line up, is there anything major that needs to be removed for that vaccum pump on the s63? Can it be done form up top or better under neath ?

As far as leaking hoses, I may have a shop do them depending on the difficulty of it.

$5k just seems unrealistic for these repairs, especially if you know to turn a wrench.

5K sounds about right from the dealer, its a BMW and a M, they are going to bend you over hard and not even give you complementary reach around Its why I said you HAVE to work on it yourself or have a warranty. You can do it yourself for less then 300. (vacuum pump, converters, hoses)

Interesting the pressure converters went bad. Perhaps working overtime from the faulty vacuum pump. I replaced mine just out of precaution since I had it off when I was refreshing the heads(150K on a N63, this engine shares 90% of the same parts as the S63) But wasn't having issues with it even at 150K so surprised yours failed

I would still be highly suspect of your wastegates too, mine were horrible and worn out and rattling right around 100K and as the other member said, they usually get so worn out around 100K they need to be rebuilt (which REALLY SUCKS, recommend send them to be rebuilt). As I mentioned before, grab a handheld vacuum pump and test, you can do it just a few min since this is a reverse flow engine and the turbos are so easy to get to.

At -10 psi they should be closed tightly. You can adjust them quite a bit. Eventually the bushing will become so worn though that the alignment will be off even when tightly closed but you will be able to feel that sloppiness if they are that far gone.

Make your own vacuum lines, I did mine as BMW wants hundreds of dollars for just the lines (of course).

There are two interchangeable part numbers for the vacuum pump, one is 500 dollars (11668605976) and one is about 57 dollars (11668649747). Its the exact same pump, BMW does this all the time when they do warranty/recall work. Recommend you go to FCP Euro for your parts.

Vacuum pump is a pain to get to but doable, get mirrors or a bore scope and remove your struts on your hood and tie it up to make it easier. Pressure converters aren't too bad either but again some bolts you really cant see without mirrors or a bore scope. If you dont know already, the two links below are going to be your best friend soon, everything you need to know. Full online BMW tech Manuals and parts schematics. Keep us posted on how it all turns out.

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/
https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/select

[frankenm]

Originally Posted by pipsniperr

I know man, I saw your build. Very nice. Got a link to how you pulled it off?


I was quoted by the dealership $4,900 in repairs which seems outrageous.
The must not know I was a technician for 5 years.

I will plan on doing the boost solenoids (pressure converters) myself, since I believe they are relatively an easy fix. The look to be $70-90 a a piece, and I believe they sit on top of the engine.

I may do the vaccum pump as well, from my understanding it is just the key in the pump that may be a PITA to line up, is there anything major that needs to be removed for that vaccum pump on the s63? Can it be done form up top or better under neath ?

As far as leaking hoses, I may have a shop do them depending on the difficulty of it.

$5k just seems unrealistic for these repairs, especially if you know to turn a wrench.

This thread has some info it from a few of us that have done the swap so far.
https://www.xbimmers.com/forums/show....php?t=1169348

The dealer quoted me 3100 to replace 1 fuel injector when mine were failing....under recall....everyone sees the M and just turn up the fuckems

Everything just takes a bit more time is all and lots of money

[mr____p]

Just picked up the x5m from the dealer.

The tech took the time to explain his test plan.

I decided to attach the test plan to this thread.

On the way home, no engine malfunction light. He noted after he unpinched the line he could not get the light to reappear.

_______

CLIENT HAS PROVIDED FAULT CODES
310B charging pressure control 2
30FF Charging pressure control boost pressure too low
30CB By pass blow off valve 2 activation

"INSPECTED VEHICLE FOUND VACUUM LINE FOR BANK 2 PRESSURE CONVERTER THAT CONTROLS WASTE GATE COMPLETELY PINCHED AND ROUTED INCORRECTLY.

HOOKED UP VACCUM GUAGE TO WASTE GATE AND CONFIRM NO VACCUM PRESENT AT ALL

UNPINCHED HOSE AND NOW HAD VACCUM AT WASTE GATE. TESTED BOTH WASTE GATES AND CONFIRMED MOVEMENT - FULL RANGE OPEN AND CLOSED. HOWEVER BANK 2 SHOWS SLIGHT SIGNS OF WEAR ON ROD - IT DID NOT AFFECT ACTUATION AT THIS TIME.

TESTED VACUUM SOURCE AT VACCUMP PUMP - IT IS LOW
SPEC IS 24INCHES AFTER 1 MIN - PUMP SHOWING 9INCHES AT IDLE

FAILING TO PRODUCE CORRECT VACUUM

INSPECTED TURBO IMPELLERS THEY BOTH WERE SPINNING FREELY WITH ENGINE RUNNING AND WHEN ENGINE TURNED OFF DID NOT NOTICE ANY SIGN OF WALL CONTACT OR EXCESSIVE WEAR

USING "T" CONNECTORS HOOKED UP VACUUM GAUGES AT WASTE GATE AND ACTUATORS AND CLEAR FAULTS TO TEST DRIVE VEHICLE

WHILE MONITORING BOTH PRESSURE CONVERTER FOR BANK 2 WASTE GATE NOTICED IT WAS SLOW TO RESPOND AT TIMES AND IS AFFECTING VACUUM

RECOMENDED VACCUM PUMP, REPLACEMENT OF AGED VACUUM LINES COMPLETELY FROM PUMP TO PODS TO CONVERTERS TO WASTE GATES

RECOMMENDED REPLACING BOTH CONVERTERS DUE TO BEING IN SAME AREA FOR BANK 1 AND BANK 2"


RECOMMENDED PARTS

11657803732 - VACUUM HOSE
11657846163 - VACUUM HOSE
11657846164 - VACUUM HOSE

11747626351 - CONVERTERS (Boost solenoids)
11668605976 - VACUUM PUMP


I will get these repairs done and update!

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by pipsniperr

Just picked up the x5m from the dealer.

The tech took the time to explain his test plan.

I decided to attach the test plan to this thread.

On the way home, no engine malfunction light. He noted after he unpinched the line he could not get the light to reappear.

_______

CLIENT HAS PROVIDED FAULT CODES
310B charging pressure control 2
30FF Charging pressure control boost pressure too low
30CB By pass blow off valve 2 activation

"INSPECTED VEHICLE FOUND VACUUM LINE FOR BANK 2 PRESSURE CONVERTER THAT CONTROLS WASTE GATE COMPLETELY PINCHED AND ROUTED INCORRECTLY.

HOOKED UP VACCUM GUAGE TO WASTE GATE AND CONFIRM NO VACCUM PRESENT AT ALL

UNPINCHED HOSE AND NOW HAD VACCUM AT WASTE GATE. TESTED BOTH WASTE GATES AND CONFIRMED MOVEMENT - FULL RANGE OPEN AND CLOSED. HOWEVER BANK 2 SHOWS SLIGHT SIGNS OF WEAR ON ROD - IT DID NOT AFFECT ACTUATION AT THIS TIME.

TESTED VACUUM SOURCE AT VACCUMP PUMP - IT IS LOW
SPEC IS 24INCHES AFTER 1 MIN - PUMP SHOWING 9INCHES AT IDLE

FAILING TO PRODUCE CORRECT VACUUM

INSPECTED TURBO IMPELLERS THEY BOTH WERE SPINNING FREELY WITH ENGINE RUNNING AND WHEN ENGINE TURNED OFF DID NOT NOTICE ANY SIGN OF WALL CONTACT OR EXCESSIVE WEAR

USING "T" CONNECTORS HOOKED UP VACUUM GAUGES AT WASTE GATE AND ACTUATORS AND CLEAR FAULTS TO TEST DRIVE VEHICLE

WHILE MONITORING BOTH PRESSURE CONVERTER FOR BANK 2 WASTE GATE NOTICED IT WAS SLOW TO RESPOND AT TIMES AND IS AFFECTING VACUUM

RECOMENDED VACCUM PUMP, REPLACEMENT OF AGED VACUUM LINES COMPLETELY FROM PUMP TO PODS TO CONVERTERS TO WASTE GATES

RECOMMENDED REPLACING BOTH CONVERTERS DUE TO BEING IN SAME AREA FOR BANK 1 AND BANK 2"


RECOMMENDED PARTS

11657803732 - VACUUM HOSE
11657846163 - VACUUM HOSE
11657846164 - VACUUM HOSE

11747626351 - CONVERTERS (Boost solenoids)
11668605976 - VACUUM PUMP


I will get these repairs done and update!

Did you see my post about the vacuum part numbers? Don't waste 450 dollars.....

[mr____p]

Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck

Did you see my post about the vacuum part numbers? Don't waste 450 dollars.....

Yes got the vaccum pump for the low

[BXMMMMMW]

Originally Posted by pipsniperr

Yes got the vaccum pump for the low

Can the vacuum hoses be replaced with standard vacuum hose rather than buying a specially molded line? I have to believe you could get a length of hose, cut it and route it without any issue. Am I dreaming here?

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by BXMMMMMW

Can the vacuum hoses be replaced with standard vacuum hose rather than buying a specially molded line? I have to believe you could get a length of hose, cut it and route it without any issue. Am I dreaming here?

Yep, I replaced all mine with high temp silicone. Any auto parts store carries standard rubber vacuum hose that will work just fine too. My post was referring to the vacuum pump itself, there are two part numbers to the exact same pump, one is 510 dollars at the dealer, the other is about 58...yes 58 dollars....same part. Guess which one BMW sells to itself for warranty repair?

[mr____p]

Speaking of "routed in correctly"

This is how I found my o2 sensors this morning.

Can't be right.

Thoughts?