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      10-28-2022, 02:11 PM   #287
M3WC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3798j View Post
Here are the 13 errors RBR made...additionally RBR was thanked by the FIA for graciously accepting the penalty.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/re...-fia/10391662/
This looks to be the bulk of the overage.

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10. Understatement of Relevant Costs in respect of provisions set forth by Article 4.1(f)(i)(B) of the Financial Regulations (concerning use of inventories)

This relates to allocating the costs of unused spare parts to the heritage department and thus taking them out of the cap. It is believed to be the single biggest item in this list, with Horner suggesting in Austin involves a seven-figure sum.

Last edited by M3WC; 10-28-2022 at 02:19 PM..
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      10-28-2022, 02:17 PM   #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeelToeShift View Post
Basically, nothing of significance, nor advantage in any way, shape, or form...even to the most hyperbolic of individuals.

Ultimately, I think RB saved the FIA some face in not pushing further because knowing the facts, it sure seems suspicious. Anyway, penalty seems, if anything, a bit of overkill.
This has turned into a womp...womp.

I am surprised RB didn't fight the ruling. Maybe with the death of Dietrich Mateschitz and the end of 2022 season nearing. It was just time to move on.

My question is. Do fans now have to wait until 3/4 through the next season to see if the previous year's champion was within budget? Almost like all championships from here on out will sit in limbo until budget validation.

Last edited by M3WC; 10-28-2022 at 10:02 PM..
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      10-28-2022, 02:20 PM   #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3WC View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeelToeShift View Post
Basically, nothing of significance, nor advantage in any way, shape, or form...even to the most hyperbolic of individuals.

Ultimately, I think RB saved the FIA some face in not pushing further because knowing the facts, it sure seems suspicious. Anyway, penalty seems, if anything, a bit of overkill.
This is turned into a womp...womp.

I am surprised RB didn't fight the ruling. Maybe with the death of Dietrich Mateschitz and the end of 2022 season nearing. It was just time to move on.

My question is. Do fans now have to wait until 3/4 through the next season to see if the previous year's champion was with budget? Almost like all championships will sit in limbo until validation.
Clearly the FIA are looking like amateurs with this whole cap cost - from what is/isn't included to when teams get audited. We're already at the end of this season and they're just getting around to releasing audit findings now. For last years season.

A LOT of work needs to be done with the direction the FIA wants to push F1 moving forward.
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      10-28-2022, 02:21 PM   #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3798j View Post
No that's not what I think. What I think is the amount of the penalty was negotiated down by RBR to a figure that they felt acceptable. If they had not been satisfied they would have gone to court...Horner almost guaranteed they would. Think it would be interesting to know what the FIA's first fine offer was.
So you do think the conditions of the ABA are appropriate or proportional to the RB cost cap breach.
It was a closed question.

You're very adept in dodging answers to a question.
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      10-28-2022, 02:34 PM   #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
So you do think the conditions of the ABA are appropriate or proportional to the RB cost cap breach.
Yes. Understand that had RBR known it would be this easy, they wouldn't have spent so many days in denial.
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      10-28-2022, 04:10 PM   #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3798j View Post
Understand that had RBR known it would be this easy, they wouldn't have spent so many days in denial.
.....highly specualtive.....you weren't there. None of us were.

I think the official reason is that they (RB and the FIA) were getting to the bottom of it. Which is not more than normal imho.
I don't think anything is 'easy' in this matter. It takes time to go through the books of a million+ £ corporation. Especially when things have to be clarified and when there might be a difference in opinion on how things should be interpreted.

Anyway, it's a very minor breach. 1,6%
FIA acted accordingly. case closed.
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Last edited by GuidoK; 10-28-2022 at 04:18 PM..
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      10-28-2022, 04:25 PM   #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
.....highly specualtive.....you weren't there. None of us were.

I think the official reason is that they (RB and the FIA) were getting to the bottom of it. Which is not more than normal imho.
I don't think anything is 'easy' in this matter.

Anyway, it's a very minor breach. 1,6%
FIA acted accordingly. case closed.
Also this is a good opportunity for Fia in a slipshod and novice way to say ''we want 7 million dollars from you by the end of the month' even though they said there was no malicious intent.
RB should have taken it to court where then the mole in the gov body would have probably been revealed and Ben S would be forced to leave for allowing confidential info to be passed on to third party.
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      10-28-2022, 06:38 PM   #294
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Originally Posted by M5Rick View Post
where then the mole in the gov body would have probably been revealed
I wonder what type of function can both leak information on the technical procedural side and the financial procedural side...
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      10-28-2022, 06:50 PM   #295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
I wonder what type of function can both leak information on the technical procedural side and the financial procedural side...
A grasser to a previous employer, who may be a lawyer acting in a unprofessional manner can lose their certification
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      10-28-2022, 11:52 PM   #296
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There is a great break down of budget breach by Will Buxton on F1 youtube channel.

Apparently RB had turned in a budget that was 3.3 mill under budget. FIA found line items they believed should have been included. Which led to RB being 1.8 mill over.

RB did not include a 1.4 mill rebate from the British government. Which actually would have brought down the breach to just $400k or 0.37%.
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      10-29-2022, 12:37 AM   #297
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Interesting comment at end of FP2 - in 2021 every team but one submitted their 2021 books as a dry run and to get feedback from FIA on their methods…. The one exception, RB didn’t submit.
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      10-29-2022, 12:45 AM   #298
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I'd say red bull ultimately came out ahead here. I was thinking that the fine (wholly or part) should be paid from their cap budget for next year for the punishment to have any real teeth.

For what they've gained, it's a fairly small price to pay (financially and development wise)
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      10-29-2022, 02:46 AM   #299
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Easiest punishment ever. Two driverís and one constructorís championships for $7m and a little air tunnel time? No-brainer. RBR and all other 9 teams will be doing it THIS year.
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      10-29-2022, 03:19 AM   #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcoose View Post
RBR and all other 9 teams will be doing it THIS year.
If you had seen the video M3WC is referencing to, one of the major points on which the FIA based the content of their ABA, is that they are convinced that RB was not trying to overspend and that it's all a result of different interpretations of certain costs.
So there's more to it.
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      10-29-2022, 04:27 AM   #301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
If you had seen the video M3WC is referencing to, one of the major points on which the FIA based the content of their ABA, is that they are convinced that RB was not trying to overspend and that it's all a result of different interpretations of certain costs.
So there's more to it.
Reading the brit press in the Express this morning that 'fans are outraged with Fia at RB penalty'. Me thinking that indeed Fia totally put their foot in it with the ridiculously monster fine (to line their own spend spend coffers) and reduction in wind tunnel time on RBR but no, the paper is referring to fans thinking it's a weak penalty against the team.
Where does the Express get their idea what 'fans' think...ah yes making up mostly their main F1 headings of what HAM is thinking and doing skipping RB's race wins and better strats for the race.
I've finished with the brit press reporting on F1 as from now.
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      10-29-2022, 03:00 PM   #302
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Thought McLaren's team principal, Andreas Seidl's comment was pretty funny...when asked about Horner's press conference explanations of why Red Bull went over the cap....

"I didn't watch it," he said. "I didn't like fairy tales as a kid. That's why I wasn't interested to listen to Christian's press conference today."
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      10-29-2022, 03:09 PM   #303
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Let the accounting development era begin!
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      11-01-2022, 02:19 PM   #304
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I forgot all about this, I was away last week relaxing as all of this unfolded.

So it confirms that of the teams Red Bull got it all very wrong in multiple areas and other than Aston nobody else did. The ABA was their best option to 'take it on the chin' and they accepted a fine the is meaningless and reduce aero and CFD time that makes very little difference in reality. Some are actually saying that due to some of the costs of running the aero they won't use the full allocation anyway apparently.

Anyone that defends this as whatever is missing the point massively. This might not hurt Red Bull a huge amount now, but the next time they are sitting round the table trying to force the hand of the other teams, forget it they have them by the balls. The sponsors aren't going to like it either, yes they are winning but that doesn't matted to them, reputational damage and the association to it very much does. If they are so much as a penny over next time they are going to be in serious trouble.

But for me regardless of what they did is the cost cap working for the sport, I don't think so it needs changes. Ability for lower teams to maybe spend more not just have more development time and when something like this happens again then they need to reduce the spending of the guilty team. They top teams have more than enough money, they will spend another $100m on other costs outside of the CAP easily but reduce what they can spend on items within it, that would hurt far far more.

As for all of the fallout and frankly vacuous pantomime comments about we didn't do anything, we were under, it wasn't us stuff its embarrassing to the team and has reduced their credibility massively that us as outsiders won't grasp yet.
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      11-22-2022, 04:52 PM   #305
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So nearly 2 months on Red Bull Racing STILL haven't filled there accounts. So if they are happy with analysis either by the media or other teams they haven't filed their accounts due and are in breach of UK account rules.

At some point they will have to file as the media will make it a big issue. Still more to hide I wonder....
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