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      03-26-2020, 08:46 AM   #2641
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc100 View Post
Even in spite of way more testing the number of new infections in the U.S. went from doubling every 2 days on Sunday to every 4.7 cays by Wed. That is phenomenal news Minn!!

There is probably a convoy of new yorkers headed to gopherland as we speak
Gawd I hope not, I've worked with one transplanted New Yorker for the last twenty years and I think that is all I can handle.
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      03-26-2020, 08:50 AM   #2642
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Originally Posted by bimmer456 View Post
See article I just posted about seasonal flu from US News, 14,000 people have died of seasonal flu in 2019-20 season vs. less than 1000 of Coronavirus for which everyone has gone hyterical over and hoarded toilet paper. Maybe just get a bidet.
You're soooooo page 20. You've got some reading to do. We'll be right here when you get caught up.
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      03-26-2020, 08:53 AM   #2643
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Originally Posted by 2000cs View Post
Does anyone know (and have a source) for the survival rate of COVID-19 patients who are put on respirators?
I think it's too early still. Sample size is too low. The people on ventilators arent hopping up out of bed a week later and heading home. I saw an interview with a British doctor whose been in Italy helping out. At the time he said he's been there 20 days and in that time, NONE of the patients who were on ventilators when he arrived were off of them. Seems like once you go on one you better settle in for a while.
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      03-26-2020, 08:59 AM   #2644
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Originally Posted by DETRoadster View Post
I think it's too early still. Sample size is too low. The people on ventilators arent hopping up out of bed a week later and heading home. I saw an interview with a British doctor whose been in Italy helping out. At the time he said he's been there 20 days and in that time, NONE of the patients who were on ventilators when he arrived were off of them. Seems like once you go on one you better settle in for a while.
That's what the number seem to suggest to me as well. ~491k infected and the recovered number still hanging around 100k (118k to be exact). I fear we're about to reach a cliff where ventilators aren't available and people start dying at higher rates.
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      03-26-2020, 08:59 AM   #2645
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Originally Posted by Salty Dog View Post
“I have patients in their early 40s who look relatively healthy with a minimal health history, and they are completely wiped out, like they’ve been hit by a truck. This is knocking out what should be perfectly fit, healthy people. Patients will be on minimal support, on a little bit of oxygen, and then all of a sudden, they go into complete respiratory arrest, shut down and can’t breathe at all.”

“It’s called acute respiratory distress syndrome, ARDS. That means the lungs are filled with fluid. It has a really high mortality rate, about 40%. The way to manage it is to put a patient on a ventilator. The additional pressure helps the oxygen go into the bloodstream.
These accounts are what scare me, and you can find them in every country. Maybe I don't know the flu well enough, but I don't recall reading much about healthy people in their 40's going into ARDS from the flu. I've had the flu just a couple of times in my life, and it was bad, but certainly nothing that would endanger my life.

I get the sense that once all the numbers are finally tallied there will be a marked difference between the flu and COVID-19.
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      03-26-2020, 08:59 AM   #2646
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So let's turn this thread back to politics for a moment and give NickyC a break from the doom porn before his head explodes.

Looks like the Senate passed a $2.2T COVID package to stimulate the heck outta us and bail out just about every industry you can think of. We are what, 4 weeks into this thing? 4 weeks is all it takes to turn 100% of the Senate into Bernie Sanders supporting Socialists? Biggest government hand-out EVER.

Interested in what y'all think....
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      03-26-2020, 09:03 AM   #2647
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Quote:
Originally Posted by secretsquirrel View Post
That's what the number seem to suggest to me as well. ~491k infected and the recovered number still hanging around 100k (118k to be exact). I fear we're about to reach a cliff where ventilators aren't available and people start dying at higher rates.
Unfortunately, it appears we are already there in some places in the US.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/hospita...ts-11585215006
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      03-26-2020, 09:11 AM   #2648
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Originally Posted by DETRoadster View Post
So let's turn this thread back to politics for a moment and give NickyC a break from the doom porn before his head explodes.

Looks like the Senate passed a $2.2T COVID package to stimulate the heck outta us and bail out just about every industry you can think of. We are what, 4 weeks into this thing? 4 weeks is all it takes to turn 100% of the Senate into Bernie Sanders supporting Socialists? Biggest government hand-out EVER.

Interested in what y'all think....
Do you (or anyone know) if there is anything specific in there about helping out our oil workers/industry. Seems very odd that Saudi Arabia is paying for the US military to help protect their oil fields while they take this opportunity during a pandemic to crush our (and others) oil industries via this price war. Whatever they're paying for that US deployment, I'm guessing it pales in comparison to what the damage it is doing to a portion of our economy/oil workers. Yet, not a peep form the Orange one about it.

Last edited by minn19; 03-26-2020 at 10:47 AM..
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      03-26-2020, 09:32 AM   #2649
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DETRoadster View Post
So let's turn this thread back to politics for a moment and give NickyC a break from the doom porn before his head explodes.

Looks like the Senate passed a $2.2T COVID package to stimulate the heck outta us and bail out just about every industry you can think of. We are what, 4 weeks into this thing? 4 weeks is all it takes to turn 100% of the Senate into Bernie Sanders supporting Socialists? Biggest government hand-out EVER.

Interested in what y'all think....
My thoughts are:

Dayum that's a lot of money, I wonder how that will affect things 15 years from now.
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      03-26-2020, 09:33 AM   #2650
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so in the US there have been less than 1000 deaths due to coronavirus and 23,000 due to seasonal flu. Yet flu it seems is no big deal, its normal, but coronavirus, that's an emergency.

https://www.fox8live.com/2020/03/20/...oll-reaches-k/

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/26/healt...day/index.html
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      03-26-2020, 09:33 AM   #2651
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DETRoadster View Post
So let's turn this thread back to politics for a moment and give NickyC a break from the doom porn before his head explodes.

Looks like the Senate passed a $2.2T COVID package to stimulate the heck outta us and bail out just about every industry you can think of. We are what, 4 weeks into this thing? 4 weeks is all it takes to turn 100% of the Senate into Bernie Sanders supporting Socialists? Biggest government hand-out EVER.

Interested in what y'all think....
Remember this is coming from me - an avowed libertarian.

Are you ready?

.
.
.

I think it is a great idea and probably needs to be bigger.

.
.
.

My rationale here, is that the government caused the economic meltdown by forcing the economy to close. Now, I am not saying that what they did wasn't justified - it probably was, but bottom line is that the government caused the problem, so it's only fair that they fix it.

It's a big difference between a normal economic downturns and one specifically created by government policy.

Bottom line - if the government caused a business or employee to directly lose $10,000 - then they should be responsible for reimbursing that business or employee.

-

On a side note, this begs the question of where this government money is going to come from. One would imagine that it will be borrowed, and as such, since the only country that heavily purchases our debt on the open market is China, it will effectively be borrowed from China.

As such - I imagine it will only be a matter of time before conspiracy stories abound that say this was a Chinese plot - since they effectively created this crisis and are now the ones we are effectively borrowing the money from.
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      03-26-2020, 09:35 AM   #2652
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
Do you (or anyone know) if there is anything specific in there about helping out our oil workers/industry. Seems very odd that Saudi Arabia is paying for the US military to help protect their oil fields while they take this opportunity during a pandemic to crush our (and others) oil industries via this price war. Whatever they're paying for that US deployment, I'm guessing pales in comparison to what the damage it is doing to a portion of our economy/oil workers. Yet, not a peep form the Orange one about it.
I havenít looked at the bill yet, as I donít expect anything for our industry (still operating, may have difficulty collecting down the road but will deal with that later). However I do know that last week the federal government began buying a lot of oil to refill the strategic reserve. That should help stabilize prices. Prices wonít rebound until there is a new agreement with OPEC (and maybe Russia), and demand for gasoline begins to rebound (although Diesel is doing fine, I think).

Some of the stimulus is targeted at keeping people employed, and may apply to your specific business for that reason, but I really donít know. It is usually pretty easy to find the bill language online (senate.gov?) and plow through it. I just donít have the time today.
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      03-26-2020, 09:37 AM   #2653
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Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
Remember this is coming from me - an avowed libertarian.

Are you ready?

.
.
.

I think it is a great idea and probably needs to be bigger.

.
.
.

My rationale here, is that the government caused the economic meltdown by forcing the economy to close. Now, I am not saying that what they did wasn't justified - it probably was, but bottom line is that the government caused the problem, so it's only fair that they fix it.

It's a big difference between a normal economic downturns and one specifically created by government policy.

Bottom line - if the government caused a business or employee to directly lose $10,000 - then they should be responsible for reimbursing that business or employee.

-

On a side note, this begs the question of where this government money is going to come from. One would imagine that it will be borrowed, and as such, since the only country that heavily purchases our debt on the open market is China, it will effectively be borrowed from China.

As such - I imagine it will only be a matter of time before conspiracy stories abound that say this was a Chinese plot - since they effectively created this crisis and are now the ones we are effectively borrowing the money from.
I agree, and I think this is only the second of many. Each will have different elements for different circumstances. Does anyone even remember the first one that was signed what, last Wednesday? I know for a fact that another one is already being discussed/negotiated.
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      03-26-2020, 09:41 AM   #2654
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So more people have died in the US of flu than have died in the entire world of coronavirus. Looks like the number for US flu is 23K and the number for worldwide coronavirus is 22K.
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      03-26-2020, 09:50 AM   #2655
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmer456 View Post
so in the US there have been less than 1000 deaths due to coronavirus and 23,000 due to seasonal flu. Yet flu it seems is no big deal, its normal, but coronavirus, that's an emergency.

https://www.fox8live.com/2020/03/20/...oll-reaches-k/

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/26/healt...day/index.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmer456 View Post
So more people have died in the US of flu than have died in the entire world of coronavirus. Looks like the number for US flu is 23K and the number for worldwide coronavirus is 22K.
Holy crap. The persistence. Please get out from under your rock and do what others have suggested, , or the news, or open your freaking eyes.
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      03-26-2020, 09:56 AM   #2656
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Originally Posted by bimmer456 View Post
So more people have died in the US of flu than have died in the entire world of coronavirus. Looks like the number for US flu is 23K and the number for worldwide coronavirus is 22K.
Ok, lets go at it from a different angle. What is the upside of destroying local/national and a big portion of the global economy? Something to do just for fun?
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      03-26-2020, 09:57 AM   #2657
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Ok, lets go at it from a different angle. What is the upside of destroying local/national and a big portion of the global economy? Something to do just for fun?
Try to reset a broken system?
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      03-26-2020, 09:59 AM   #2658
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Try to reset a broken system?
Broken for whom? Certainly not the elite/powers that be who are currently biting the hand that feeds them monteraily at least.
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      03-26-2020, 10:00 AM   #2659
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Originally Posted by BimmerBoomer View Post
If he had the sense to use the time you gained productively I would have no problem giving him credit. As it is, we'll have to see where mortality per capita stands at the end of the first wave in another month or two.
And what did HE do wrong that Biden could have done better?
Oh yea John Hopkins says the U.S. is now the best prepared country in the world.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/us-...-found-in-2019

And what is your solution going forward now?
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      03-26-2020, 10:00 AM   #2660
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmer456 View Post
so in the US there have been less than 1000 deaths due to coronavirus and 23,000 due to seasonal flu. Yet flu it seems is no big deal, its normal, but coronavirus, that's an emergency.

https://www.fox8live.com/2020/03/20/...oll-reaches-k/

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/26/healt...day/index.html

Look, nothing against you, but you're not comparing apples to apples. And in fact, it's not even possible to compare apples to apples at this point.

Many of these sites use "seasons" instead of months, like the flu is up or down this "season", which doesn't start January 1, it started in 3rd quarter 2019.

Secondly, the flu was EVERYWHERE in the United States when they start their numbers, whereas COVID-19 literally started from one spot on January 21st of this year in the USA.

Once COVID-19 is everywhere, like the flu, and the numbers are compared, it's overwhelmingly probable that you'll see that it's more infectious than the flu, and has a higher mortality rate, just like most of the experts are saying.
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      03-26-2020, 10:16 AM   #2661
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
Remember this is coming from me - an avowed libertarian.

Are you ready?

.
.
.

I think it is a great idea and probably needs to be bigger.

.
.
.

My rationale here, is that the government caused the economic meltdown by forcing the economy to close. Now, I am not saying that what they did wasn't justified - it probably was, but bottom line is that the government caused the problem, so it's only fair that they fix it.

It's a big difference between a normal economic downturns and one specifically created by government policy.

Bottom line - if the government caused a business or employee to directly lose $10,000 - then they should be responsible for reimbursing that business or employee.

-

On a side note, this begs the question of where this government money is going to come from. One would imagine that it will be borrowed, and as such, since the only country that heavily purchases our debt on the open market is China, it will effectively be borrowed from China.

As such - I imagine it will only be a matter of time before conspiracy stories abound that say this was a Chinese plot - since they effectively created this crisis and are now the ones we are effectively borrowing the money from.
Whoa... we... agree?
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      03-26-2020, 10:30 AM   #2662
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Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
Whoa... we... agree?
Funny how that works sometimes?



Seriously though - personally, I don't even think it should be a loan - I think it should be a no strings attached direct payment.

As an example - a friend of ours is a waiter at Bonefish restaurant. The local government has made it against the law for him to go to work. Our state effectively doesn't have unemployment insurance, since our max payout if you make over $100K per year is a whopping $225/wk.

For someone like him, who has income on his tax return of something like $20K a year, UI is like $80/wk.

So the government, by force, has eliminated his ability to work. It is only fair that he should be compensated - and not just $1,200 one time two months from now in May. By then, he will be homeless and possibly dead of starvation.
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