Dinan air to water intercooler upgrade for E70 x5 50i

[elmasry17]

Hello Everyone,

Im new in the forum and i like it very much. I have 2011 bmw x5 50i and already have dinan stage 3 software installed and wow im very impressed with its performance. My question is should i install Dinan intercooler air to water and then upgrade to stage 4? Is it really worth the money? Will it protect the engine and do much better performance? i live in nj and we get crazy winter cold temps but again i drive to nyc a lot for work so there is a lot of stop and go traffic. Have anyone purchased and installed the dinan intercooler and was not impressed with the kit? or should i just stay with dinan stage 3 software only? Please any tips and advice would be greatly appreciated.

[m5james]

Too high of a $ per HP gains...they're a huge waste unless you're pushing the limits of your X5M like myself and others are. I'm sure I've got way more mods than you and I haven't even looked at those because they're not necessary yet, so they're surely not necessary for you.

[elmasry17]

Originally Posted by m5james

Too high of a $ per HP gains...they're a huge waste unless you're pushing the limits of your X5M like myself and others are. I'm sure I've got way more mods than you and I haven't even looked at those because they're not necessary yet, so they're surely not necessary for you.

Thank you sir for your reply well dinan is offering it for me for $1990 because i had some warranty issues with them and they wanted to make it up for me and give me a credit for 1000$ so i was like if they can apply that credit to discount the intercooler kit. So you still think its too much or is that a good deal? When i push my x5 my coolant temp reaches up to 108f so i would like your opinion please? Thanks a bunch boss

[TKR]

Originally Posted by m5james

...., so they're surely not necessary for you.

I don't quite understand this comment... What other mods you suggest for 50i non-M owners?

Swapping the exhaust usually makes noise but no power. Going Catless dp's is lot of hassle with Smoke tests...

Bigger turbos would need matching tune for them.

50i intake is long and choked, and difficult to modify to allow air flow more freely.

N63 runs very hot on the V-valley, so cooling the air entering to combustion is an effective way to put more air volume through the engine. Cooler air is thicker, and if Dinan tune takes that into account, in theory it should make noticeable power increase?

[elmasry17]

Originally Posted by TKR

I don't quite understand this comment... What other mods you suggest for 50i non-M owners?

Swapping the exhaust usually makes noise but no power. Going Catless dp's is lot of hassle with Smoke tests...

Bigger turbos would need matching tune for them.

50i intake is long and choked, and difficult to modify to allow air flow more freely.

N63 runs very hot on the V-valley, so cooling the air entering to combustion is an effective way to put more air volume through the engine. Cooler air is thicker, and if Dinan tune takes that into account, in theory it should make noticeable power increase?

I would say so too and thats why im asking for some opinions and advices. I really dont know much about cars but i like to have better performance and pushing hard while not hurting the engine to some extent. Right now i have stage 3 dinan software and very happy with its performance but when summer hits i would assume cold air would help with better performance and kinda protecting the engine. I dunno what should i do

[frankenm]

Dinan repurposes OEM BMW parts ... wouldn't be surprised if these are intercoolers from a different engine (s63/tu's) and tuned for the n63.

Looking at the install guide you end up installing an expansion tank directly in between the intercoolers - this is stock on the x5m installed in a better location.

[Thecastle]

In general intercooler upgrades make very little to no difference for most people. They’re popular but generally the last thing you might want to upgrade.

So I’ll start with the intercooler placebo effect. One of the top reasons people believe an intercooler upgrade made a difference for them is because the new intercooler is clean and the old one is full of oil. The oil in an intercooler is a natural consequence of turbo seal leakage and pcv/ccv cycling oil back into the intake. The oil lowers engine out put by insulating the intercooler and lowering its heat exchang ability and as an octane reducer. Oil in the combustion chamber lowers effective fuel octane causing the engine to pull timing, to prevent knock. Extra heat also reduces the knock threshold..

The way you know if an intercooler upgrade will benefit you.... log your car, and clean your stock ic.

So what you’ll see in logs if you need an ic upgrade is if you do full throttle pulls on the highway, you should see your intake air temperature plateau. If on successive pulls you see iats continuing to rise and you see the engine pulling timing and mass air flow falling on,y then would an intercooler make a difference.

I’m going to state in my experience with many upgraded cars with big turbos, that most of the time the stock intercooler is fine until you run a big turbo too far out of its efficiency range and it’s blowing progressively more heat.

Bottom line Unless you log the car you won’t know if its money well spent upgrading the ic.

Frankly going catless will have a bigger impact than an ic upgrade. Lower back pressure and reduced exhaust temps means you can run the turbo harder and produce more power. Unless you have weak valve springs which doesn’t seem to be a general issue on bmws,

Oh and one other thing to consider... typically the bigger the intercooler, the more volume there is to pressurize in the intake... which means increased lag, yes adding a bigger intercooler can increase lag.

[elmasry17]

Originally Posted by frankenm

Dinan repurposes OEM BMW parts ... wouldn't be surprised if these are intercoolers from a different engine (s63/tu's) and tuned for the n63.

Looking at the install guide you end up installing an expansion tank directly in between the intercoolers - this is stock on the x5m installed in a better location.

The n63 has stock expansion tank in between the intercoolers

[elmasry17]

I decided to purchase dinan intercooler for my 50i since im getting it at a huge discounted rate and my best friend will install it for me for free, then ill upgrade to stage 4 software. Once its complete i will take pics and let you know all the results

[elmasry17]

Originally Posted by Thecastle

In general intercooler upgrades make very little to no difference for most people. They’re popular but generally the last thing you might want to upgrade.

So I’ll start with the intercooler placebo effect. One of the top reasons people believe an intercooler upgrade made a difference for them is because the new intercooler is clean and the old one is full of oil. The oil in an intercooler is a natural consequence of turbo seal leakage and pcv/ccv cycling oil back into the intake. The oil lowers engine out put by insulating the intercooler and lowering its heat exchang ability and as an octane reducer. Oil in the combustion chamber lowers effective fuel octane causing the engine to pull timing, to prevent knock. Extra heat also reduces the knock threshold..

The way you know if an intercooler upgrade will benefit you.... log your car, and clean your stock ic.

So what you’ll see in logs if you need an ic upgrade is if you do full throttle pulls on the highway, you should see your intake air temperature plateau. If on successive pulls you see iats continuing to rise and you see the engine pulling timing and mass air flow falling on,y then would an intercooler make a difference.

I’m going to state in my experience with many upgraded cars with big turbos, that most of the time the stock intercooler is fine until you run a big turbo too far out of its efficiency range and it’s blowing progressively more heat.

Bottom line Unless you log the car you won’t know if its money well spent upgrading the ic.

Frankly going catless will have a bigger impact than an ic upgrade. Lower back pressure and reduced exhaust temps means you can run the turbo harder and produce more power. Unless you have weak valve springs which doesn’t seem to be a general issue on bmws,

Oh and one other thing to consider... typically the bigger the intercooler, the more volume there is to pressurize in the intake... which means increased lag, yes adding a bigger intercooler can increase lag.

Hello sir,

I really dont know much how engine car works but can you tell me more on how oil can enter to the intercooler? I thought only coolant is in the expansion tank and cools down the engine and heat exchanger. I never knew oil can enter to the intercooler. If you can elaborate more would be great

[protecon]

Originally Posted by elmasry17

Hello sir,

I really dont know much how engine car works but can you tell me more on how oil can enter to the intercooler? I thought only coolant is in the expansion tank and cools down the engine and heat exchanger. I never knew oil can enter to the intercooler. If you can elaborate more would be great

Due to most Government emissions standards, turbocharged engines are required to not only recirculate blow-off valve output back into the intake stream, but blow-by gases produced through the cylinder head (crankcase ventilation). Blow-by will always contain some element of oil vapour, and factory separators work to drop the oil out of the gas before returning it to the intake, where the gas will re-enter the flow into the engine and be ignited/burnt. Oil separated during this process is typically returned to the sump.
Sometimes under load (or poor performing factory separators), oil vapour enters the intake from the crankcase ventilation system, and can collect in intercoolers due to the fin restrictions catching the oil droplets as they pass through.

[elmasry17]

Originally Posted by protecon

Due to most Government emissions standards, turbocharged engines are required to not only recirculate blow-off valve output back into the intake stream, but blow-by gases produced through the cylinder head (crankcase ventilation). Blow-by will always contain some element of oil vapour, and factory separators work to drop the oil out of the gas before returning it to the intake, where the gas will re-enter the flow into the engine and be ignited/burnt. Oil separated during this process is typically returned to the sump.
Sometimes under load (or poor performing factory separators), oil vapour enters the intake from the crankcase ventilation system, and can collect in intercoolers due to the fin restrictions catching the oil droplets as they pass through.

You the man! Thanks for simplifying it to me.

[elmasry17]

Got it installed this morning and wow what a diiference with performance. I kept monitoring the coolant temp after installation and i do see a difference close to 9 Celsius cooler from before. Previously my coolant temp would reach 108 Celsius while driving hard, now i pushed it even harder and wont go above 99 Celsius which is very impressive. Way better throttle response and increase performance with stage 4 software

[protecon]

Engine coolant is completely independent of your WtA cooling system - you will need to log IAT before and after.

[elmasry17]

Originally Posted by protecon

Engine coolant is completely independent of your WtA cooling system - you will need to log IAT before and after.

Which obd scanner you suggest me to buy so i can log and check out all this features? Im so sorry im new to this stuff.

[elmasry17]

Hey guys!

I just wanna update you with stage 4 software. The car is viciously aggressive now and breathing so much better. When driving on sport mode, holy crap it felt like a whip lash on my entire body. Lets see how will this continue. My dinan mechanic recommended liqui moly 5w40 high tech to solve or reduce the oil consumption. So i had my oil changed with liqui moly 5w40. Will update you with results on oil consumption

[JoeyBimX5din]

Originally Posted by elmasry17

Hey guys!

I just wanna update you with stage 4 software. The car is viciously aggressive now and breathing so much better. When driving on sport mode, holy crap it felt like a whip lash on my entire body. Lets see how will this continue. My dinan mechanic recommended liqui moly 5w40 high tech to solve or reduce the oil consumption. So i had my oil changed with liqui moly 5w40. Will update you with results on oil consumption

Any updates?

I would think it still drinks oil. I just live with my oil consumption. I have pushed it out a little longer since I switched over to 15w-50 Mobile 1, I can see around 1500 or so to a quart of usage.