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      10-14-2018, 02:47 PM   #1
GearHead335i
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2012 X5 35i xDrive shudder/vibration/stutter ANY INPUT APPRECIATED

So I recently bought a 2012 X5 35i and I had some chatter when I turned from a stop with the steering at basically full lock. Didn’t think much of it at the time of purchase. Since I bought it about 4 months ago, I have;
- changed plugs
- oil
- wipers
- put some 22” style 612m reps on with 295/30/22 up front on a 22x10 wheel and 335/25/22 in the rear on a 22x11 wheel.
- as well as some other exterior modifications (double slated gloss black kidney, painted the aluminum running boards satin black, and painted the black weather trim in the front/rear/wheel arches).

Since I purchased the vehicle the chatter went from just when I was turning from a start, to really anytime I accelerate. I thought for sure it was the front driveshaft and my vehicle had that recall as well as the passenger side airbag. So I took it into the dealer and picked up the car yesterday and it seems that the chatter from a start when turning from basically full lock is gone but still have the chatter/shudder/vibration feeling when accelerating.

My thoughts are I got the correct tire sizes for the new wheels, the driveshaft is now brand new, and the car seems to be running fine. It is worse on an incline and the worst from a stop/10mph-40mph. No check engine light is on and again the car seems to be running fine other than recently sometimes when I park after driving, I smell oil burning which I believe is the oil filter housing gasket. Not sure if they go bad on these n55’s but my 09 335i e90 lci got pretty bad. I heard something about the knock sensor going bad and other owners experiencing similar symptoms. Also maybe the cv boots need to be re-greased? Transfer case fluid needs to be changed? Splines on driveshaft? Or motor/trans/TC bushings?

I just want some input and a couple of diff things I can do to narrow down what is going on. Any help is much appreciated! Thanks
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      10-14-2018, 03:15 PM   #2
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Your transfer case is shot. Well known problem in the 2012 E70s.

https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=871535

Last edited by bmwx5er; 10-14-2018 at 03:31 PM..
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      10-14-2018, 09:10 PM   #3
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“There is NO center differential in xDrive. xDrives have multiplates wet clutche instead. By controlling the clutch, you can transfer the torque to front and/or rear. When the car goes straight, no special effects needed. When you turn, especially sharp turn with low speed, the speed of all 4 wheels are very different and special effect is needed to emulate the missing center differential. By releasing the clutch, torque goes only to rear axle(This is described in the xDrive technical document). If this doesn't work properly, the speed of front axle and rear axle will be the same and at least one wheel will run more than it should, and that makes a small vibration because of the tire slip. This comes from the huge difference in wheel speed of front and rear, it doesn't happen in normal running condition where the wheel speed of 4 wheels are almost same.”



Mine no longer shudders at low speed turning, seems like that has to be present in order for it to be transfer case. Mine is also less visible before car has warmed up, it’s the worst after or in stop and go traffic.
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      10-14-2018, 09:43 PM   #4
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Bad tire size messing up center diff / transfer case. Use https://tiresize.com/comparison/

Should be 285 30 front to get close to rotation of rear

I've had mine do the same on 2011. Had it replaced under warranty, no issues since
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      10-15-2018, 05:40 PM   #5
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Every thread I checked did 295/30 upfront and 335/25 in rear.

Update, car is deff not doing the symptoms I described above when cold. Just took it for a short 5 min drive after installing my new m sport half Alcantara, half perforated leather steering wheel.

Coils would do that if they were bad, (no symptoms before car reaches operating temperature/symptoms present after car warms up).

One other thought, I did unplug the battery in order to install the new steering wheel in order to disconnect airbag etc. Could something have been reset or something along those lines for me to not feel symptoms? I also mentioned above that I was smelling a slight burning oil smell and after the short five minute drive I just did, when I got out of the car there was some smoke coming from the rear of the motor from something dripping on the downpipe. Smelt like oil but the smoke was more like steam/condensation and burning oil smoke.
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      10-15-2018, 05:43 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racermp View Post
Bad tire size messing up center diff / transfer case. Use https://tiresize.com/comparison/

Should be 285 30 front to get close to rotation of rear

I've had mine do the same on 2011. Had it replaced under warranty, no issues since
Crap you’re right, 295/30 is 1.4% diff in circumference, 285/30 is only 0.3%. I really hope I didn’t do any damage. Only have 1000 miles on the new setup.
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      10-15-2018, 05:52 PM   #7
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Here’s a post from another thread, I’m referring to the last part where the forum member mentions it’s the transmission adjusting? Maybe me unplugging the battery reset the transmission adaption? Nevertheless, I already ordered a set of 285/30



kzflags View Post
my brotha bahadas, i can always count on you for wheel input lol.

2% is pushing it, i was gonna run 235/35 265/30 but decided to go with 245/35/19 and 275/30/19 on my 19x9 and 19x10, which is right at the threshold of 1%.

But its funny cause i have a little bit of jerkiness on my acceleration right now slightly even on my stock wheels (which are square).

what did you do about the TC light coming on and killing your acceleration...should i run into this issue.
The jerkiness could be just the transmission programming, and gear engagements especially 1st to 2nd seem a little rough.

After I swapped to the 235/35 and 265/30, I rarely if ever saw the TC light come on, so I never had to get it dealt with.

You could always pull the fuse for the AWD system and see what happe.
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      10-16-2018, 09:46 AM   #8
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Camping onto this thread hoping for a little input. I have a 2012 3.5i, running the stock 19" wheels with Conti DWS 06's. I get a bit of shudder, usually when the tranny is warm, but going straight, not turning. So if I put the car in drive, but don't press the go pedal, it will creep forward smoothly for a couple of feet, then kind of shudder for 10 to 15 feet as it accelerates. No noises that I can hear, and no codes when checked with carly. I have also noticed the car has a horrible shift from 2 to 3 or 4 to 5 when under 3/4 acceleration, enough that you move forward into your seatbelt in the middle of the shift.

I will try the tranny learn reset. I think Carly can do that. The car does have 99,000 miles, and is new to me since 98k miles. I have no service records, so I doubt the tranny or transfer case fluid has been changed.

Thanks for any input.

G.
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      10-16-2018, 02:58 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghanziang View Post
Camping onto this thread hoping for a little input. I have a 2012 3.5i, running the stock 19" wheels with Conti DWS 06's. I get a bit of shudder, usually when the tranny is warm, but going straight, not turning. So if I put the car in drive, but don't press the go pedal, it will creep forward smoothly for a couple of feet, then kind of shudder for 10 to 15 feet as it accelerates. No noises that I can hear, and no codes when checked with carly. I have also noticed the car has a horrible shift from 2 to 3 or 4 to 5 when under 3/4 acceleration, enough that you move forward into your seatbelt in the middle of the shift.

I will try the tranny learn reset. I think Carly can do that. The car does have 99,000 miles, and is new to me since 98k miles. I have no service records, so I doubt the tranny or transfer case fluid has been changed.

Thanks for any input.

G.
Sounds like similar symptoms that I am having but my shifts are all smooth for the most part. Have not tried the creep forward test when cars and drive without hitting the gas, will try shortly. Have you gotten the driveshaft replaced under the recall yet? When I ran the Carfax on my x5 before buying it a few months ago, it had The front driveshaft and the passenger airbag recall listed, you should check.

I’m going to swap the stock wheels back on the car and see if anything changes, I don’t remember if I had any shudder with the stock wheels or not but I as well have the 19 inch with Conti DWS.

Not sure if this helps our issue but when I have the factory wheels still in the car, there was significant wearing on the outside of the front tires.
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      10-16-2018, 05:29 PM   #10
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I bought the car at the end of August, they were scrambling to do the Passenger airbag recall. I checked and I see the drive shaft recall, but I don't show it as applying to my vehicle when I search by VIN. Maybe it has already been completed?

For wear on the DWS 06, I do have some wear on on the outside of the front tires, but not all that bad. I don't know the mileage on them, but have have to be less than 1.5 years old based on their date of manufacture.

G.
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      10-19-2018, 03:44 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghanziang View Post
I bought the car at the end of August, they were scrambling to do the Passenger airbag recall. I checked and I see the drive shaft recall, but I don't show it as applying to my vehicle when I search by VIN. Maybe it has already been completed?

For wear on the DWS 06, I do have some wear on on the outside of the front tires, but not all that bad. I don't know the mileage on them, but have have to be less than 1.5 years old based on their date of manufacture.

G.
Gotcha, yeah when I bought my vehicle they were pretty much shot, but the wear was mostly in the outside of the tire. When was your vehicles build date? If the recall isn’t showing up, I’m sure you could call bmw of NA and see if the recall was done or if the recall wasn’t offered for your vehicle.

I haven’t been driving my x5 due to me realizing 295/30/22 up front and 335/25/22 in the rear is a 1.4% circumference difference so I’m waiting for new 285/30/22 to come and I’m going to change the Transfer Case fluid before I start daily driving it again.

Now I’m concerned about running two diff brands of tires. Anyone have any input?
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      10-21-2018, 03:25 PM   #12
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Hi.

Check your propshaft center support bearing. It only screams for help in low gears (due to higher torque coming through) and even more when going uphills...

Don't worry about different brands of tire sizes.
That is definitely not a killer.

Cheers,
Rod
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      10-30-2018, 03:03 PM   #13
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So after extensively going over the car, the flex disc or guibo and the center support bearings both looked ok. Not to say they couldn’t be replaced, as they look original and the car just hit 100k, but they didn’t look to be the culprit from this shudder/vibration issue. I also checked the motor mounts and Transfer case/transmission mount and again, not that they were brand new, but both looked to be in ok shape. I just bought these wheels and spent close to $2500 all said and done and I didn’t want to believe that they were the issue.

With that said, I swapped to my stock 19” wheels with Conti RFT, and the shudder/vibration/hesitation was almost completely gone, about 90%. I know I need new brakes front/rear pads AND rotors but the shudder I was feeling is 100% gone after reinstalling the stock setup and having the driveshaft recall performed. So you can call this one SOLVED.

Now my question is, are the new wheels causing the shuddering bc of the 1.4% circumference difference or are the wheels maybe not hub centric? I’m really leaning towards them not being hub centric bc I felt the shudder, but also noticed some vibration especially in the front. ALSO when I took off the new 22” wheels to swap the stock wheels back on, I noticed some build up of rust on the hubs themselves behind the wheels where they bolt up.

At any rate, I’ll be buying hubcentric rings and will be swapping the front tires with 285/30/22 instead of the 295/30/22 I have on them now. Also here are some pictures I snapped of the guibo and center support bearing, what do you guys think? Thanks for everyone’s input, it is much appreciated!
Attached Images
  
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      11-08-2018, 03:08 PM   #14
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I had essentially the same shudder and fixed it by changing the transfer case fluid. Use the OEM fluid when you do it.
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      11-11-2018, 02:17 PM   #15
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I had essentially the same shudder and fixed it by changing the transfer case fluid. Use the OEM fluid when you do it.
Well when I changed the wheels back to stock from the 22” (295/30/22 & 335/25/22) the shuddering basically went away. I can feel a little something still when I make a sharp turn from a stop with leaves or wet ground but I think that’s normal for an awd vehicle.

At the moment I’m just trying to figure out if it’s the tire size difference and if I go to 285/30/22 it will stop or if it’s maybe the fact that I need hubcentric rings? Any input from anyone would be greatly appreciated!
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      11-12-2018, 12:08 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quinnhogue7 View Post
Well when I changed the wheels back to stock from the 22” (295/30/22 & 335/25/22) the shuddering basically went away. I can feel a little something still when I make a sharp turn from a stop with leaves or wet ground but I think that’s normal for an awd vehicle.

At the moment I’m just trying to figure out if it’s the tire size difference and if I go to 285/30/22 it will stop or if it’s maybe the fact that I need hubcentric rings? Any input from anyone would be greatly appreciated!
if your wheels don't fit well on the hubs then get some rings, they are under $10 on amazon.

i would still says tires are the cause. xhp will soon release a xdrive delete. so you can drive in Rwd mode.
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      11-12-2018, 01:12 PM   #17
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I’d say it’s the tire size difference. I had the same problem myself, running with 295/30 and 335/25-22 on my summer set. It helped if I increased the tire air pressure in the back and decreased in the front, so I guess it’s very sensitive.
The company who sold me the 22 inch set with tires two years ago, who also specializes on selling aftermarked and OEM BMW parts, refused to take back the wheels. They claimed that the tire manufacturer (in this case Vredestein) approved this tire set up to fit the X5 E70.
But now, the company is selling this set up with 285/30 and 335/25-22 in stead. Go figure.

If you’re missing hub centric rings, it would just feel like the the wheels were way out of balance.

Last edited by Svaen; 11-12-2018 at 01:19 PM..
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      11-12-2018, 02:38 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Svaen View Post
I’d say it’s the tire size difference. I had the same problem myself, running with 295/30 and 335/25-22 on my summer set. It helped if I increased the tire air pressure in the back and decreased in the front, so I guess it’s very sensitive.
The company who sold me the 22 inch set with tires two years ago, who also specializes on selling aftermarked and OEM BMW parts, refused to take back the wheels. They claimed that the tire manufacturer (in this case Vredestein) approved this tire set up to fit the X5 E70.
But now, the company is selling this set up with 285/30 and 335/25-22 in stead. Go figure.

If you’re missing hub centric rings, it would just feel like the the wheels were way out of balance.
Yeah I’ll just change the front tires, sucks cause they are brand new...
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      11-12-2018, 02:39 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racermp View Post
if your wheels don't fit well on the hubs then get some rings, they are under $10 on amazon.

i would still says tires are the cause. xhp will soon release a xdrive delete. so you can drive in Rwd mode.
I’ve heard the current xhp transmission flash is awesome any experience with it?
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      11-12-2018, 08:06 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quinnhogue7 View Post
I’ve heard the current xhp transmission flash is awesome any experience with it?
Yes I had it on my 335i 6hp it was awesome. Stage 3. Felt better than dct and reaction times to shifts via paddles was so instant. Best part is it puts more pressure on clutches to avoid slipping so all tuned folks will have a lot less wear on the clutches.

Unfortunately they don't support our 8hp but soon they will for the 8hp f series. So maybe we will get it
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      11-13-2018, 08:12 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racermp View Post
Yes I had it on my 335i 6hp it was awesome. Stage 3. Felt better than dct and reaction times to shifts via paddles was so instant. Best part is it puts more pressure on clutches to avoid slipping so all tuned folks will have a lot less wear on the clutches.

Unfortunately they don't support our 8hp but soon they will for the 8hp f series. So maybe we will get it
Gotcha, well when I flashed the mhd on my car, it asked if I had already had the xhp flashed on the transmission but you said it’s not available yet?
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      11-14-2018, 06:45 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quinnhogue7 View Post
Gotcha, well when I flashed the mhd on my car, it asked if I had already had the xhp flashed on the transmission but you said it’s not available yet?
Yeah I plugged in to my X5 and it says not supported. Maybe u can download the app and try, it's free to check. . When I look up the list of supported cars X5 35i shows up but some transmission variants. Donno.
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