XBimmers.com | BMW X6 Forum X5 Forum
 
TireRack





Go Back   XBimmers.com | BMW X6 Forum X5 Forum > BMW X5 Forums > General BMW X5 (E70) and X5M Forum (2006-2013)

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-09-2018, 08:38 PM   #1
jandref321
Captain
jandref321's Avatar
191
Rep
644
Posts

Drives: 2012 X5M
Join Date: May 2014
Location: United States

iTrader: (1)

X5M Boost Leak Problems

Gents,

I've been slaving away for the past six months trying to find a solution to my boost leak codes but have failed miserably.

30FF: Boost Pressure control, Boost Pressure Too Low Fault
310B: Boost Pressure Control 2, Plausibility Fault
3108: Boost Pressure Control 2, Leakage Fault



Conditions: 3-5 gear, 60-80 mph or 110mph, Exactly 14 or 16 PSI, JB4 on or off.

They started in April. I am running Velos stage 2+ and JB4. I had the JB4 installed and running for a month before this started. Since then I have completed the following:

-Turbos and wastegates rebuilt
-All Vacuum Lines Replaced
-Both boost solenoids replaced
-Replaced TMAPs
-Replaced all charge pipe hoses and clamps (For the second time)
-Replaced Intake Manifold Vent lines and cross over line
-Vacuum Test of all vacuum lines, tanks, and wastegate actuators
-Attempted Pressure test but found a hole in my passenger intake elbow (BMW reinstalled the hose clamp backwards to avoid the DV+ and the clamp ate through the elbow) I have ordered a new elbow and used rubber cement/tape to hold it until the new one arrives.
-Took to an Indy shop and they politely asked me to leave and not come back.
-Checked JB4 wiring 3 times
-Checked DV valve resistance and energized with 9volt to hear clicking

I am also running Go Fast Bit's Diverter Valve upgrade. I thought maybe they were not operating properly so I went back to stock DV and found that I could barely build boost and felt like limp mode. I switched back to DV+ and I can build boost but it dumps and throws a code at 16psi like before.

The stock diverter valves worked perfectly fine before I upgraded them and the diaphragms are in excellent condition. The DV+ has a heavy spring that holds the piston closed even when the solenoids are open. The Spring only allows the piston to open when enough boost is applied.


Considering this I think that the diverter valve solenoids are:

1) Failing open, but not throwing code until DV+ spring opens
2) Opening as soon as the engine turns on, but not throwing code until DV+ spring opens
3) Being actuated open by the computer erroneously, but not throwing code until DV+ spring opens

From some research and observation it seems that the DVs only open when energized and would fail closed. This leads me to believe that the issue could be software. Still leaving the other options open, and aside from the link to the DV, here are my thoughts on options:

1) Remove JB4
2) Replace DV solenoids
3) Replace Chargepipe
4) Replace Vacuum Pump

I have spent a behind load of money and time on this so far and not eager to keep working on it. JB4 with BCM is a PITA to remove/install on N63/S63. DV solenoids are like $60 each before shipping. Charge pipe is $450 or would need to spend a lot on a fabricator. Vacuum pump isn't that expensive but PITA to mess with.

Thoughts? Any extra tests you can think of?
__________________

2017 F30 330e CURRENT M Sport Package, M Performance Decals
2012 E70 X5M CURRENT Stg 1+ Turbos, DPs, Velos Stg 2+, JB4, Race Cats, Bavauto Coils
2011 F10 535i SOLD Burger Tuning JB4, BMS CAI
2003 E46 M3 SOLD aFe CAI, AP Axleback, SSK, H&R Springs, TMS CMBR Arms, PF RTABs

Last edited by jandref321; 11-09-2018 at 09:09 PM.
Appreciate 0
      11-09-2018, 11:34 PM   #2
greddy91
Private First Class
37
Rep
170
Posts

Drives: 2010 X5M
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Oklahoma

iTrader: (0)

How quickly is it building boost? Could the rebuilt wastegate be stuck open or not be fully closing perhaps? Turbo blankets in play that could be causing an obstruction?
Appreciate 0
      11-09-2018, 11:50 PM   #3
jandref321
Captain
jandref321's Avatar
191
Rep
644
Posts

Drives: 2012 X5M
Join Date: May 2014
Location: United States

iTrader: (1)

It builds boost very quickly with the DV+ on...just dumps it abruptly at 16psi and I get the codes. Stock DV it still builds boost but very slowly and it feels slow.

I had turbo blankets before the rebuild but tossed them. The wastegates shouldnt be an issue at all. I tested them with a vacuum pump and they were free moving and completely closed at 12 psi.
Appreciate 0
      11-10-2018, 09:00 AM   #4
9vapors
First Lieutenant
86
Rep
333
Posts

Drives: CB X5M
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Des Moines

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jandref321 View Post
It builds boost very quickly with the DV+ on...just dumps it abruptly at 16psi and I get the codes. Stock DV it still builds boost but very slowly and it feels slow.

I had turbo blankets before the rebuild but tossed them. The wastegates shouldnt be an issue at all. I tested them with a vacuum pump and they were free moving and completely closed at 12 psi.
Could one of your boost pressure sensors be bad? After I tuned my car, I had one go bad and was chasing around the problem as well. I had a different code 29E1...
Appreciate 0
      11-10-2018, 11:18 AM   #5
jandref321
Captain
jandref321's Avatar
191
Rep
644
Posts

Drives: 2012 X5M
Join Date: May 2014
Location: United States

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 9vapors View Post
Could one of your boost pressure sensors be bad? After I tuned my car, I had one go bad and was chasing around the problem as well. I had a different code 29E1...
I already replaced the TMAPs in the intercoolers ...are you referring to the intake manifold sensors?
Appreciate 0
      11-10-2018, 01:17 PM   #6
9vapors
First Lieutenant
86
Rep
333
Posts

Drives: CB X5M
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Des Moines

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jandref321 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9vapors View Post
Could one of your boost pressure sensors be bad? After I tuned my car, I had one go bad and was chasing around the problem as well. I had a different code 29E1...
I already replaced the TMAPs in the intercoolers ...are you referring to the intake manifold sensors?
I was referring to the ones in the intercoolers...
Appreciate 0
      11-10-2018, 02:35 PM   #7
jandref321
Captain
jandref321's Avatar
191
Rep
644
Posts

Drives: 2012 X5M
Join Date: May 2014
Location: United States

iTrader: (1)

I just removed the JB4 and the codes persist. Next step is replace the DV solenoids I guess
Appreciate 0
      11-11-2018, 12:24 PM   #8
9vapors
First Lieutenant
86
Rep
333
Posts

Drives: CB X5M
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Des Moines

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jandref321 View Post
I just removed the JB4 and the codes persist. Next step is replace the DV solenoids I guess
Man I wish I could help you, especially for all the help you've given the community... I hope you get it figured out soon, you've already spent a lot of time and $...
Appreciate 1
      11-12-2018, 09:50 AM   #9
jandref321
Captain
jandref321's Avatar
191
Rep
644
Posts

Drives: 2012 X5M
Join Date: May 2014
Location: United States

iTrader: (1)

I flashed the truck back to stock and no leak codes, but I'm not sure what boost I'm pushing. I downloaded the Torque app and using OBD2 wirelessly but it's not reading over 5 psi. The truck still feels like it's pushing more than 5 PSI so I think the app is inaccurate even though the vacuum is in the right range. The app did read 400 whp which should be around the stock 555bhp...obviously not a dyno, but just something else to consider.

Next step is reinstall the JB4 just to log and get an idea of how much boost I'm pushing. The codes were popping mainly around 16 psi, but occasionally around 14 psi so it could just be that the stock tune isn't reaching these levels and not throwing a code. Or the JB4 could have somehow corrupted the flash tune?

I'll try running stock with JB4 log then with JB4 Map 1 and then Map 6. If it's holding then it will be some issue with the flash tune and if not then it has got to be the charge pipes or DVs. I'd rather not buy a new plastic charge pipe that will bust again so I'll keep looking for a fabricator.
__________________

2017 F30 330e CURRENT M Sport Package, M Performance Decals
2012 E70 X5M CURRENT Stg 1+ Turbos, DPs, Velos Stg 2+, JB4, Race Cats, Bavauto Coils
2011 F10 535i SOLD Burger Tuning JB4, BMS CAI
2003 E46 M3 SOLD aFe CAI, AP Axleback, SSK, H&R Springs, TMS CMBR Arms, PF RTABs
Appreciate 0
      11-12-2018, 02:08 PM   #10
philly42
Second Lieutenant
53
Rep
227
Posts

Drives: X5M, Z3M
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Yeah, running those logs may pin point the problem since the system is pretty much all controlled electronically.

Let me know if it would be helpful to compare stock values. Does your JB4 pull values sent to the turbo solenoids and diverter valves?

Isn't max stock boost 16-17psi?
When the hpa value (119.75) is converted to psi, I get 17.4psi
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 1
      11-12-2018, 04:34 PM   #11
jandref321
Captain
jandref321's Avatar
191
Rep
644
Posts

Drives: 2012 X5M
Join Date: May 2014
Location: United States

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by philly42 View Post
Yeah, running those logs may pin point the problem since the system is pretty much all controlled electronically.

Let me know if it would be helpful to compare stock values. Does your JB4 pull values sent to the turbo solenoids and diverter valves?

Isn't max stock boost 16-17psi?
When the hpa value (119.75) is converted to psi, I get 17.4psi
I reinstalled my JB4...had to spend an extra hour because I dropped a positap cap under the DME and had to go fishing
[/url]

So I'm a little confused here... I reinstalled the JB4 to check stock boost but couldn't get over 11.5psi. I then ran on map 6 targeting 20 psi and only got up to 13.5 psi before popping a boost plausibility code. The JB4 said 13.5 but the freeze data says "Pressure upstream from throttle bank 1 (turbo): 176.00 kPa." That is 25.52 PSI. I've always considered this to be a carly issue issue and just divided by 2 to match up with the JB4 reading when determining when the code went. There is a JB4 log of 12.7 and the Carly code of 12.75 (176 to 25.52/2) so I figured this was when the code actually went. Unless I need to subtract ambient pressure?

JB4 only logs wastegate duty cycle which I'm under the impression refers only to the wastegates though I have read come threads on other sites referring to coding DV using WGDC.

I did not get a code while running stock, but consistently fell under DME boost target and couldnt get over 11.5 PSI. Running Map 6 I didnt get over 13.5 PSI and did throw a code. I was getting up to 15.9 PSI running Velos tune only and threw a code. I was getting 16.1 PSI running Velos and JB4 and threw codes.

So, there is a leak preventing me from building boost, it throws a code when I do manage to go over a certain PSI range, and the only way I notice is if I'm tuned and stacked to build boost quickly enough to throw the code.

Probably the charge pipes? I've read some threads of people's plastic pipes cracking over 17 PSI on other platforms, but M5James has been pushing 20 PSI on stock charge pipes for a while now. I've inspected the pipes several times looking for cracks but haven't found anything. The sandwich design would make me think failure would happen around the seams though and not be visible.

I can get a new set that comes with new DVs for $450 plus tax and shipping, but even if that is the issue then I would likely blow it again. Otherwise I could replace DVs and hope that is the problem but if not then get a new charge pipe fabricated from aluminum. I imagine that fabrication would be very expensive considering the design requiring DVs integrated.

My only big clue so far has been swapping around the DVs:
Stock DV Diaphragms: barely builds boost and feels like limp mode even with JB4 and Velos
GFB DV+ Piston: Holds boost over 16 PSI with JB4 and Velos.
__________________

2017 F30 330e CURRENT M Sport Package, M Performance Decals
2012 E70 X5M CURRENT Stg 1+ Turbos, DPs, Velos Stg 2+, JB4, Race Cats, Bavauto Coils
2011 F10 535i SOLD Burger Tuning JB4, BMS CAI
2003 E46 M3 SOLD aFe CAI, AP Axleback, SSK, H&R Springs, TMS CMBR Arms, PF RTABs

Last edited by jandref321; 11-12-2018 at 06:41 PM. Reason: added info, picture
Appreciate 0
      11-12-2018, 07:18 PM   #12
jandref321
Captain
jandref321's Avatar
191
Rep
644
Posts

Drives: 2012 X5M
Join Date: May 2014
Location: United States

iTrader: (1)

Could a collapsed cat cause boost leak codes? I have aftermarket race cats in my midpipes. I hit them a couple times and don't hear any rattling. They are good quality so I can't imagine they would fail anyway, but before the guy welded them in he told me that his friend put aftermarket cats in his car and one collapsed. I have a bore scope that's long enough so I may try shoving it all the way down there through an O2 sensor hole when the engine cools down.

I also plan on re flashing the Velos tune...I'm guessing I need to uninstall the JB4 first though...such a headache.
__________________

2017 F30 330e CURRENT M Sport Package, M Performance Decals
2012 E70 X5M CURRENT Stg 1+ Turbos, DPs, Velos Stg 2+, JB4, Race Cats, Bavauto Coils
2011 F10 535i SOLD Burger Tuning JB4, BMS CAI
2003 E46 M3 SOLD aFe CAI, AP Axleback, SSK, H&R Springs, TMS CMBR Arms, PF RTABs
Appreciate 0
      11-12-2018, 09:25 PM   #13
9vapors
First Lieutenant
86
Rep
333
Posts

Drives: CB X5M
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Des Moines

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jandref321 View Post
Could a collapsed cat cause boost leak codes? I have aftermarket race cats in my midpipes. I hit them a couple times and don't hear any rattling. They are good quality so I can't imagine they would fail anyway, but before the guy welded them in he told me that his friend put aftermarket cats in his car and one collapsed. I have a bore scope that's long enough so I may try shoving it all the way down there through an O2 sensor hole when the engine cools down.

I also plan on re flashing the Velos tune...I'm guessing I need to uninstall the JB4 first though...such a headache.
For the charge pipes, I had mine smoke tested today, and first the mechanic used parts cleaner and sprayed it around to check for idle fluctuations which would indicate a leak. Then he put the smoke tester on the intake and tested for smoke leaking out...

Appreciate 0
      11-12-2018, 11:05 PM   #14
jandref321
Captain
jandref321's Avatar
191
Rep
644
Posts

Drives: 2012 X5M
Join Date: May 2014
Location: United States

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 9vapors View Post
For the charge pipes, I had mine smoke tested today, and first the mechanic used parts cleaner and sprayed it around to check for idle fluctuations which would indicate a leak. Then he put the smoke tester on the intake and tested for smoke leaking out...

Thanks! I tried a smoke test before and nothing came out...tried the pressure test and found the intake leak. I just ordered a set of charge pipes...they come with DVs so figured it was worth it.
__________________

2017 F30 330e CURRENT M Sport Package, M Performance Decals
2012 E70 X5M CURRENT Stg 1+ Turbos, DPs, Velos Stg 2+, JB4, Race Cats, Bavauto Coils
2011 F10 535i SOLD Burger Tuning JB4, BMS CAI
2003 E46 M3 SOLD aFe CAI, AP Axleback, SSK, H&R Springs, TMS CMBR Arms, PF RTABs
Appreciate 0
      11-13-2018, 11:11 AM   #15
philly42
Second Lieutenant
53
Rep
227
Posts

Drives: X5M, Z3M
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Glad you found the leak! Where was it coming from?

Btw, Carly is probably reading the upstream pressure. In my screen shot you can see the upstream pressure is around 2221 hpa (32psi) and the downstream pressure sensor after the throttle body valve is reading around 17psi. The upstream pressures can very well be 32psi. The diverter valve controls the pressure in the charge pipe (boost-on-tap), while the throttle body valve controls the pressure in the intake manifold.(actual boost)
Appreciate 0
      11-14-2018, 07:22 AM   #16
jandref321
Captain
jandref321's Avatar
191
Rep
644
Posts

Drives: 2012 X5M
Join Date: May 2014
Location: United States

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by philly42 View Post
Glad you found the leak! Where was it coming from?

Btw, Carly is probably reading the upstream pressure. In my screen shot you can see the upstream pressure is around 2221 hpa (32psi) and the downstream pressure sensor after the throttle body valve is reading around 17psi. The upstream pressures can very well be 32psi. The diverter valve controls the pressure in the charge pipe (boost-on-tap), while the throttle body valve controls the pressure in the intake manifold.(actual boost)
My earlier post was a little confusing. I tried a pressure test last week but found that there was a small hole in my rubber intake boot leading from the filter to the air duct. I patched it up using rubber cement and electrical tape but haven't tried another pressure test. Fedex says the new elbow will be here Saturday.

I haven't actually found the leak yet, but figured I should just buy the chargepipes since they come with new diverter valves in them. This way I don't buy new diverter valves and find out that wasn't the issue and have to buy a new charge pipe with new diverter valves again. Idk what else it could be.

If Carly is reading the freeze frame codes for upstream bank 1 then I suppose it has to be leaking from bank 1. That is the side where the intake boot was leaking and that side also has the most oil in the intake system. When I was running catch cans, bank 1 would be dry and I was only pulling oil from bank 2. I deleted the cans, but getting a lot of oil in the air duct and all over the diverter valve only on bank 1. Maybe this could point to an issue with the ccv?
__________________

2017 F30 330e CURRENT M Sport Package, M Performance Decals
2012 E70 X5M CURRENT Stg 1+ Turbos, DPs, Velos Stg 2+, JB4, Race Cats, Bavauto Coils
2011 F10 535i SOLD Burger Tuning JB4, BMS CAI
2003 E46 M3 SOLD aFe CAI, AP Axleback, SSK, H&R Springs, TMS CMBR Arms, PF RTABs
Appreciate 0
      11-16-2018, 07:34 PM   #17
jandref321
Captain
jandref321's Avatar
191
Rep
644
Posts

Drives: 2012 X5M
Join Date: May 2014
Location: United States

iTrader: (1)

I'm about to take a hammer to this engine. I just wasted a bunch of money on new charge pipes and DVs...did not fix the problem.


I also tried running the bore scope down to the cats to check them out but it wasn't stiff enough to handle all the bends and keep moving. The exhaust pressure from the tail pipes seems even though. I did get a shot of the wastegates closed under vacuum while I had the O2 sensors out.


I'm not sure where to go now...the code is reading an upstream pressure so should be an upstream leak like charge pipes, DV, hoses, intercooler, throttle body hose. All of those have been replaced or inspected.

The other options are vacuum side: air ducts, vacuum lines, boost solenoids, wastegates, vacuum tanks, vacuum pump. I replaced all the lines, air ducts, wastegates, and boost solenoids already. Only thing left is the pump or oil separator in under the crank case cover.

Down stream we have the intake manifold and pressure sensor.

I'm super tired of this
__________________

2017 F30 330e CURRENT M Sport Package, M Performance Decals
2012 E70 X5M CURRENT Stg 1+ Turbos, DPs, Velos Stg 2+, JB4, Race Cats, Bavauto Coils
2011 F10 535i SOLD Burger Tuning JB4, BMS CAI
2003 E46 M3 SOLD aFe CAI, AP Axleback, SSK, H&R Springs, TMS CMBR Arms, PF RTABs
Appreciate 0
      11-17-2018, 10:57 AM   #18
greddy91
Private First Class
37
Rep
170
Posts

Drives: 2010 X5M
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Oklahoma

iTrader: (0)

Stick with it sir. We all feel for you. Your investment isn't just for you, it's for all of us as well.

Best wishes in finding the gremlins and know for certain that your trials will help someone else who also ends up going through this in the future.
Appreciate 2
      11-17-2018, 01:12 PM   #19
9vapors
First Lieutenant
86
Rep
333
Posts

Drives: CB X5M
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Des Moines

iTrader: (0)

I would check the vacuum lines, I had a situation when I was putting the small vacuum tanks back on after the turbo blanket install. I was tightening them down and one of the vacuum lines on top got unplugged. It would not boost at all, eventually went in limp mode. Put a t in and check the vacuum pressure if you haven't. I hope it's something small, especially after all you've put into it at this point.
Appreciate 1
      11-17-2018, 08:42 PM   #20
jandref321
Captain
jandref321's Avatar
191
Rep
644
Posts

Drives: 2012 X5M
Join Date: May 2014
Location: United States

iTrader: (1)

The new intake elbow came in so I went for another pressure test attempt...Barely got pumping and heard a loud hissing...air was coming out from the intake manifold where the crankcase vent line hooks up. I pressed it back down and it sealed up but I'm guessing it's going to keep popping off.


I replaced it in the first time a few weeks ago because there was oil all around the hose on the top connector...It may be a leak but I'm not sure it's THE leak. I'll drive it tomorrow and try the pressure test again. If it's leaking from that point again then I know where to focus.
__________________

2017 F30 330e CURRENT M Sport Package, M Performance Decals
2012 E70 X5M CURRENT Stg 1+ Turbos, DPs, Velos Stg 2+, JB4, Race Cats, Bavauto Coils
2011 F10 535i SOLD Burger Tuning JB4, BMS CAI
2003 E46 M3 SOLD aFe CAI, AP Axleback, SSK, H&R Springs, TMS CMBR Arms, PF RTABs
Appreciate 0
      11-17-2018, 10:18 PM   #21
9vapors
First Lieutenant
86
Rep
333
Posts

Drives: CB X5M
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Des Moines

iTrader: (0)

I hope it's just that man... wishing you luck
Appreciate 1
      11-19-2018, 11:04 AM   #22
jandref321
Captain
jandref321's Avatar
191
Rep
644
Posts

Drives: 2012 X5M
Join Date: May 2014
Location: United States

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 9vapors View Post
I hope it's just that man... wishing you luck
Thanks, I popped the code again yesterday. I went home and tried the pressure test again and it was leaking at the same spot. I'm not really sure how to fix this. I just rerouted the pipe to the correct location and popped it back on then zip tied it. The pipe is new so it's not like it's worn out. Everything should stay clipped on perfectly. If it doesn't stay on today then I'm not really sure how to proceed...maybe a silicon hose with hose clamp. Maybe it's a intake manifold issue.
__________________

2017 F30 330e CURRENT M Sport Package, M Performance Decals
2012 E70 X5M CURRENT Stg 1+ Turbos, DPs, Velos Stg 2+, JB4, Race Cats, Bavauto Coils
2011 F10 535i SOLD Burger Tuning JB4, BMS CAI
2003 E46 M3 SOLD aFe CAI, AP Axleback, SSK, H&R Springs, TMS CMBR Arms, PF RTABs
Appreciate 1
9vapors85.50

Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:24 AM.




xbimmers
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST