Go Newt

[txz4]

Originally Posted by ideliver

It was not okay then. The TRUE conservatives worked against those expansions, ie Ron Paul...

[ScotchAndCigar]

Originally Posted by txz4

Bush expanded the gov by a wide margin and i think Obama was delighted with that as it was a mandate for his further expansion.... sort of a "well if that guy could do what he did, im going to be able to do soo much with my fan base."

I think this is conservative catch-phrase #1, "growing the gov't". It's bull, a myth. Why would anyone (other than someone looking to get a gov't job) want more gov't to give their taxes to? Obama doesn't, he hasn't, and his "fan base" (as if he's Justin Beiber) doesn't want more gov't.

The 2010 census caused a temporary increase in gov't jobs. Other than that, Obama hasn't launched any new agencies (like Bush did with homeland security, Afghan/Iraq wars, drug czars, etc). And the idea that anyone would want more people on public assistance is idiotic, as is the claim that the jobless are itching to vote for the incumbent.

[txz4]

Originally Posted by ScotchAndCigar

I think this is conservative catch-phrase #1, "growing the gov't". It's bull, a myth. Why would anyone (other than someone looking to get a gov't job) want more gov't to give their taxes to? Obama doesn't, he hasn't, and his "fan base" (as if he's Justin Beiber) doesn't want more gov't.

The 2010 census caused a temporary increase in gov't jobs. Other than that, Obama hasn't launched any new agencies (like Bush did with homeland security, Afghan/Iraq wars, drug czars, etc). And the idea that anyone would want more people on public assistance is idiotic, as is the claim that the jobless are itching to vote for the incumbent.

Glad you caught the fan base bit.

The simple answer about who would want government growth the answer is many. Many many people in America are simply stupid. simple. If you dont believe Obama has expanded government your delusional. Really. This isnt a belief topic, it is or it isnt their is nothing to believe or disbelieve.

[ScotchAndCigar]

Originally Posted by txz4

many people in America are simply stupid. simple. If you dont believe Obama has expanded government your delusional. Really. This isnt a belief topic, it is or it isnt their is nothing to believe or disbelieve.

You must've been debate club president; why don't you offer something other than "people are stupid" and "yes he has"? So far, all you've done is insult me.

Personally, I always think "people are stupid" when I hear someone suggest that raising the top tax rate will lower revenue.

[txz4]

Originally Posted by ScotchAndCigar

You must've been debate club president; why don't you offer something other than "people are stupid" and "yes he has"? So far, all you've done is insult me.

Personally, I always think "people are stupid" when I hear someone suggest that raising the top tax rate will lower revenue.

Than you agree, many people are very stupid. To illustrate my point, I was gassing up an employees work car some time ago, at the pump was an advertisement for cigarettes after the last huge tax increase. I dont smoke, neither did she, I asked her what she thought about it. She responded "its good because smoking is bad" so i asked, "what if they do this to fast food are sugary drinks?" she responded with "oh no, they wont do that, that would be horrible!". She didnt understand that by allowing one thing to happen, she was in a sense paving the way for another. Maybe its not stupidity, but at the very least ignorance and short sided thought. People constantly do things that will hurt themselves physically, mentally, or otherwise. I have many very obese employees with medical problems caused by their eating, yet when i come into the various locations i see them chowing down on pizza, soda, fried chicken, and burgers. The doctors have told them how to solve the problems they have but they dont care.

I would call that stupidity but your free to call it what you will. Obamacare is a perfect example of that theory but on a much larger scale. Coincidentally it is also an example for your next question on the expansion of government. An ideological expansion can be worse than i physical expansion scotch. Not to mention the parties expansion of HHS and taken control of certain business with the use of SEIU and UAW investment money. The investment as part of TARP play into that as well. Though im sure you dont remember, TARP 1 was initially slated to buy toxic debt of financial books. We now know that instead of doing this, it invested in these companies. Gov. funds come with MANY strings attached, and many ex Goldman employees can and did say what this caused. It also of course didnt solve the problem as you cant solve the issue by just buying a stake.

Dont forget about the governments expansion into making horrible investments as of late in the guise of "thinking green" despite various obvious political affiliations. Not need to bring up Bush, scotch, though i know you want to its the same thing. we both agree on that subject.

[ScotchAndCigar]

Dude, I didn't ask for an example of how people can be stupid.
You never answered my question - what evidence do you have that "all democrats want to expand government" and that "Obama has expanded gov't more than anyone in history"? So far, you haven't given me any, because these platitudes are just bullshit stereotypes that are trotted-out every election cycle by conservatives.

None of the repub admins have shrunk gov't, and none of the dem admins have grown it, to any significant degree that one could distinguish between the two. In fact, all the hawks that want to expand our military and make a missionary tour of the world are right-wingers, and that idea most certainly grows our gov't.

Here's a closing thought: instead of worrying about the 1.7% of welfare recipients who have been there throughout a dozen administrations, and who will always be there regardless of who's in charge, think about all those Christian conservative families with 5, 6, or 8 kids, who are paying the same property taxes, income taxes, and medical insurance costs as a family with 1 kid, but are freeloading on the system big-time, and overburdening our schools and our healthcare industry. All because some couple thinks that the world needs a whole bunch more people just like them. Presidential candidate Rick Santorum is the poster child for this sick type of Christian conservative freeloading - it's literally the most selfish thing a person can do.

[mspeasl]

Originally Posted by ScotchAndCigar

what evidence do you have that "all democrats want to expand government"

Oh about 100+ years or so worth of History

Originally Posted by ScotchAndCigar

and that "Obama has expanded gov't more than anyone in history"?.

How many CZARS has he recreated and the BS that goes with them....??

Originally Posted by ScotchAndCigar

Here's a closing thought: instead of worrying about the 1.7% of welfare recipients who have been there throughout a dozen administrations, and who will always be there regardless of who's in charge, think about all those Christian conservative families with 5, 6, or 8 kids, who are paying the same property taxes, income taxes, and medical insurance costs as a family with 1 kid, but are freeloading on the system big-time, and overburdening our schools and our healthcare industry. All because some couple thinks that the world needs a whole bunch more people just like them. Presidential candidate Rick Santorum is the poster child for this sick type of Christian conservative freeloading - it's literally the most selfish thing a person can do.

Numbers, numbers, numbers. How many 5,6,8 child families are in your neighborhood...?? If you are going to quote numbers please do so by the percentage of 8 child families verse 1 or 2 child families nation wide.

And you speak of Christian conservative freeloading and "overburdening our schools and our healthcare industry." I personally know of a minority gentleman who has fathered 17 children by 6 different ladies in our community. But who is "worrying about the 1.7% of welfare recipients who have been there throughout a dozen administrations." Or at least since the Johnson administration, who BTW gave us "The Great Society", "War on poverty" and Vietnam...!

[ScotchAndCigar]

Originally Posted by mspeasl

Oh about 100+ years or so worth of History

That's a cop-out, it's just not a valid stereotype in our modern society. By the same "historical perspective" one can say that the republican party was very much aligned with the libertarian party, but in recent times, that's not the case, look at Ron Paul in the debates.

Originally Posted by mspeasl

How many CZARS has he recreated and the BS that goes with them....??

You're thinking of GW Bush, the white guy that would say "newk-u-lar".

Originally Posted by mspeasl

Numbers, numbers, numbers. How many 5,6,8 child families are in your neighborhood...?? If you are going to quote numbers please do so by the percentage of 8 child families verse 1 or 2 child families nation wide.

I really don't see how the percentage makes a rat's ass of a difference, it's quite common, especially if you include 3 and 4 child families, which is still above the norm. Fact is, us "typical" families are footing the bill for the 3-kid-and-up families.

Originally Posted by mspeasl

I personally know of a minority gentleman who has fathered 17 children by 6 different ladies in our community.

You know Herman Cain?

[mspeasl]

Originally Posted by ScotchAndCigar

That's a cop-out, it's just not a valid stereotype in our modern society. By the same "historical perspective" one can say that the republican party was very much aligned with the libertarian party, but in recent times, that's not the case, look at Ron Paul in the debates.
You're thinking of GW Bush, the white guy that would say "newk-u-lar".
I really don't see how the percentage makes a rat's ass of a difference, it's quite common, especially if you include 3 and 4 child families, which is still above the norm. Fact is, us "typical" families are footing the bill for the 3-kid-and-up families.
You know Herman Cain?

You've got an answer for everything don't you........! Most folks like you usually do

[ScotchAndCigar]

Originally Posted by mspeasl

You've got an answer for everything don't you........! Most folks like you usually do

By "folks like you", you mean those who disagree with you? Do you expect me to suddenly stop disagreeing, because you're posting in all-bold?

[mspeasl]

Originally Posted by ScotchAndCigar

By "folks like you", you mean those who disagree with you? Do you expect me to suddenly stop disagreeing, because you're posting in all-bold?

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