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      03-14-2012, 10:54 PM   #45
northern2020
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kennyt
if you only drive it once every few days then you need to put it on a trickle charger otherwise you will kill the battery.
So I got a great 80 Amp charger (from Princess Auto) which has a voltmeter, charges, and then switches to a trickle when the charge is at full capacity (maintainer)

It will not charge beyond 64%...hope they replace at this level, and who knows how long the charge will last!

Kenny thanks for the info!

Service on Monday...

Once I start up will the computer reset the error codes and let me roll?
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      03-14-2012, 10:55 PM   #46
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And is the current battery from Factory (mine is a 2011) not an AGM style?
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      03-15-2012, 11:32 AM   #47
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Charged overnight to 80% and it dropped back to 40% after disconnecting charger.

Started at 10% charge. Looks like the cells are dead. Hopefully on Monday I get the new AGM.

I will trickle it as well!
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      03-15-2012, 08:41 PM   #48
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Sounds like your battery has dead cells. It might not pass load test at the dealer. Don't know if your current battery is AGM. AGM batteries are black in color and non AGM ones are white. All the error codes are stored in the vehicle computer and the service advisor will be able to pull it from you key. Mine was a couple pages long.
Remember to trickle charge it if you don't drive it regularly or you will kill the new battery too. AGM batteries are expensive to replace without warranty plus programming fee. We are screwed in terms of paying high price because we live in Alberta.
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      03-15-2012, 09:35 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kennyt
Sounds like your battery has dead cells. It might not pass load test at the dealer. Don't know if your current battery is AGM. AGM batteries are black in color and non AGM ones are white. All the error codes are stored in the vehicle computer and the service advisor will be able to pull it from you key. Mine was a couple pages long.
Remember to trickle charge it if you don't drive it regularly or you will kill the new battery too. AGM batteries are expensive to replace without warranty plus programming fee. We are screwed in terms of paying high price because we live in Alberta.
My SA told me to "plug the key in" so they could pull the driving info (short trips, long trips etc) but I have never once plugged key in.

They also said if the key was not plugged in ever they could not see my driving style...guess I won't be doing that!

Gonna push hard for the replacement with your info!
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      03-15-2012, 09:42 PM   #50
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They keep hiding behind short trips excuse. Tell your SA to google the error message. Dealers in US and Canada are replacing batteries left and right under warranty. It is definitely a known issue.
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      03-16-2012, 12:10 PM   #51
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Mine will be making an overnight stay. SA just called to let me know that it seems to a coding issue and they need to code the SAV.

Will know more when I get it back tomorrow.
Picked up the X5 and here is what the order sheet says:
Fault in DME 2DED Power Management with closed circuit infringement with current draw between 80-200mA.
Diagcode: D6121 00ENDIAG 72 502. Per SIB 61 05 10 Vehicle I-Level will need to be updated.
Updated Vehicle software. Including CAS.

The side effect of the software/CAS update is that I lost all my custom coding. Not happy about that.....
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      03-16-2012, 12:45 PM   #52
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Mine will be making an overnight stay. SA just called to let me know that it seems to a coding issue and they need to code the SAV.

Will know more when I get it back tomorrow.
Picked up the X5 and here is what the order sheet says:
Fault in DME 2DED Power Management with closed circuit infringement with current draw between 80-200mA.
Diagcode: D6121 00ENDIAG 72 502. Per SIB 61 05 10 Vehicle I-Level will need to be updated.
Updated Vehicle software. Including CAS.

The side effect of the software/CAS update is that I lost all my custom coding. Not happy about that.....
Sunny what year/model?
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      03-16-2012, 06:45 PM   #53
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2010 E70. 12/09 Build.
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      03-20-2012, 01:02 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kennyt
They keep hiding behind short trips excuse. Tell your SA to google the error message. Dealers in US and Canada are replacing batteries left and right under warranty. It is definitely a known issue.
Replaced!

No questions asked...very friendly.

Bought the new trickle charger they sell to compliment my other high voltage battery charger.
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      03-21-2012, 02:20 PM   #55
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Replaced!

No questions asked...very friendly.

Bought the new trickle charger they sell to compliment my other high voltage battery charger.
I am glad that they replaced the battery for you,,,,,me,,,I refuse to use a battery charger on a new vehicle. They (BMW) should be able to build a new vehicle that is reliable. Buying a $70,000+ vehicle and having to charge it over nite,,,,,,,,,,,,geezzz,,,how stupid is that (not saying you are, but BMW expecting that we do it).....they either fix the issue,,,or I'll try the lemon law,,just sayin
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      04-02-2012, 02:53 PM   #56
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Why do they have to reprogram after the battery is changed? This might cost a lot of money after the warranty is gone. Think they would make it so anyone could change the batt with not having to do a bunch of extra stuff.
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      04-02-2012, 02:55 PM   #57
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Replaced!

No questions asked...very friendly.

Bought the new trickle charger they sell to compliment my other high voltage battery charger.
I am glad that they replaced the battery for you,,,,,me,,,I refuse to use a battery charger on a new vehicle. They (BMW) should be able to build a new vehicle that is reliable. Buying a $70,000+ vehicle and having to charge it over nite,,,,,,,,,,,,geezzz,,,how stupid is that (not saying you are, but BMW expecting that we do it).....they either fix the issue,,,or I'll try the lemon law,,just sayin

I would be pissed if the truck was my daily driver...currently it's my garage queen so I don't mind the charger on
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      04-04-2012, 07:31 PM   #58
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I would be pissed if the truck was my daily driver...currently it's my garage queen so I don't mind the charger on
Gotcha,,,,,I took mine in about weeks ago with the "increased battery discharge",,and they only recharged the battery,,,If I see the message again,,,back she goes for a new battery (hopefully)
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      04-06-2012, 10:03 AM   #59
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Found this informative article from another forum. It explains why your bimmer needs to be programmed for a new battery. When the dealer installed my battery the car would not accept it until it was reprogrammed (ie. can't start the car).
I bought a smart charger called Batteryminder Plus 2012-AGM made specifically for AGM batteries. I use it once a month to desulfate the battery and extend its life.

Foreign Service
Motor, Jun 2009 by Marinucci, Dan

Vehicles are becoming increasingly self-aware with each passing year it no longer enough to replace a battery when necessary. Many late-model BMWs also need to know whenyou replaced it

Last month I discussed a timely trend in higher-end European electrical systems, the absorbed glass-mat (AGM) battery. This time I'll focus on another one, relearning BMW charging systems after battery replacement. You read correctly - relearning the charging system.

First I'll recap the AGM battery information. An AGM battery is more damp than wet inside because it isn't flooded with liquid electrolyte like a traditional battery is. Also, AGMs are designed to be very low-gassing batteries. These features make them especially well-suited for locations inside the vehicle. Some higher-end European vehicles have an AGM battery somewhere inside the vehicle powering on-board electronics while a separate battery under the hood handles starting duties. Finally, fully recharging an AGM battery safely and quickly requires an AGM-capable charger.

Okay, let's get back to those late-model BMW charging systems. First, the electrical system is so sophisticated that it tailors charging as closely as possible to both the type and the age of the battery. There's a computer, which goes by several different names, that controls the alternator. Whenever you replace a battery, this computer really needs to know because it doesn't charge a fresh battery the same way it charges an older battery. What's more, this computer needs to know if you've updated a vehicle from a conventional battery to an AGM type; it charges the AGM differently than a traditional battery.

Second, the process of updating this alternator-control computer is called battery registration. You don't ab- solutely have to register every new battery you install in these late-model BMWs. Ignoring the registration process after replacing a battery won't trigger a DTC or turn on the MIL. Howev- er, a savvy BMW specialist warned me that skipping the battery registration process can dramatically shorten the life of a battery in these vehicles, be it an AGM or a conventional battery. For instance, he's diagnosed cars on which a new battery didn't even last a year because it wasn't registered! The charging system could shorten the life of an unreg- istered battery by charging it too aggressively when it's cold; it also could shorten the life of an unregistered AGM battery by overcharg- ing it, he said. To say the least, premature battery failure can be aggravating for the customer and embarrassing for you and your shop.

Third, several problems can cause premature battery failure. On a latemodel BMW, skipping battery registration can be one of them. Don't gamble; always register a new battery on any BMW equipped with MOST Bus - a single-line, fiber-optic ring network BMW introduced in the early 2000s. Typically, the easiest way to identify a vehicle equipped with MOST Bus is to look for iDrive. In turn, the quickest way to spot iDrive is to look for the fancy LCD control display screen up on the instrument panel. Among other things, this display screen shows the driver climate control functions, navigational info, entertainment system controls, etc. (To my knowledge, the lone exception to this is the 2006 3series cars without iDrive, which still use the MOST Bus network.)

Here's when MOST Bus appeared on the most common BMWs your shop would encounter:

* 2002 for 7-series (E65/66 vehicle platforms);

* 2003 for 6-series (E63/54 vehicle platforms);

* 2004 for 5-series (E60/61 vehicle platforms);

* 2006 for 3-series (E90/9 1/92/93 vehicle platforms);

* 2007 for X5 series (E70 vehicle platform);

* 2008 for X6 series (E71 vehicle platform).

Fourth, registering a battery is easy but it requires a scan tool that communicates effectively with these BMWs. If you want to service more of these vehicles, shop for scanner updates or a new scan tool that will do the job. The screen capture on page 10 from an AutoLogic scan tool is an example of one of those you'd see during the battery registration. You also could look up battery history on this same screen. Notice that the first entry is "Last battery replacement (km)"and the reading is 0.00. Meanwhile, all the remaining entries are the same value of 528,392 km (about 328,000 mi.). These readings show that if someone has replaced this car's battery, he did not register it.

One BMW specialist pointed out to me that sometimes you can quickly check to see if the car's got the original battery in it. He said that BMW traditionally stamps the battery's manufacturing date on the negative terminal. The date stamp shows the week first, then the year. For instance, "42 05"indicates the 42nd week of 2005; "33 07"would mean the 33rd week of 2007. If the date stamp on the negative battery terminal is fairly close to the vehicle build date, then it's extremely likely that it's the original battery.

Look at the screen capture again. The BMW ace told me that if the battery had been replaced and registered correctly, the number in the top box or window would be 1.00. Next, the second entry there would be the kilometer (km) reading when the new battery was registered. Then, the rest of the entries in those little windows would show the vehicle's then-current km (odometer) reading.
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      04-06-2012, 10:06 AM   #60
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Found the article. It's here www.motor.com/article.asp?article_ID=1479
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      04-06-2012, 10:08 AM   #61
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Foreign Service

By Dan Marinucci | May 2009

Absorbed glass-mat batteries (AGMs) are becoming popular on European and some Asian cars. As always, following proper procedures when servicing them is the safest path to profitability

Because you may be seeing more absorbed glass-mat (AGM) batteries in the near future, let’s take a look at how they differ from conventional batteries and how you’re supposed to test and recharge them.

Most techs know what a flooded battery is. This is the conventional battery that contains liquid electrolyte. When you carry one of these across the shop, you may hear or feel the electrolyte sloshing around inside. A flooded battery is vented to the atmosphere and releases hydrogen and oxygen during charging (commonly called gassing). A traditional flooded battery gasses whether the device charging it is an alternator or a battery charger. The first major concern with gassing is that it creates a potentially explosive, gaseous mixture in and near the battery. The second is that it eventually lowers the electrolyte level in the battery. Over the years, improved designs have reduced gassing but have not eliminated it.

Usually, a conventional flooded battery is located under the hood. But some automakers—especially European makers—have stowed a flooded battery somewhere inside the vehicle. Here, the battery usually has a venting system connected to a hose or tube that routes battery gases outside the vehicle body again.

Unlike a traditional flooded battery, an AGM battery doesn’t contain liquid electrolyte. Instead, its electrolyte is suspended or absorbed in spongy cell separators. A good analogy for these electrolyte-laden separators would be a paper towel that has absorbed just enough liquid to be damp but not dripping wet.

Furthermore, an AGM battery doesn’t gas like a flooded battery does. To grossly simplify the chemistry, an AGM retains and “recombines” those gases traditional batteries vent to the atmosphere. The recombined gases form water, so the AGM battery literally waters itself and doesn’t lose electrolyte. One engineer said that the AGM battery design still can and does gas occasionally, so the potential for a battery-related fire or explosion hasn’t been totally eliminated. However, the overall risk on an AGM is very low compared to that of a flooded battery.

Industry sources agreed that AGM battery advantages are no reason to take shortcuts. To the contrary, they urged all techs to follow standard safety practices such as wearing eye protection and keeping ignition sources away when working on all batteries—including AGMs.

The first important service tip is to verify the kind of battery you’re about to work on. Always consult an accurate application guide before jumping to conclusions. For instance, a vehicle could have a traditional flooded battery or an AGM under the rear seat. It could have a traditional battery under the hood for starting purposes and an AGM somewhere inside the car to power the on-board electronics. Or it could have two AGMs—one underhood for starting and another in the trunk for electronics.

Never, ever attempt to add water to an AGM battery. If you somehow manage to force the battery open, exposing it to extra oxygen will “poison” it or upset its chemical composition. If this happens, the battery’s ruined!

When it comes to diagnosis, battery makers told me that either a traditional load test or a conductivity check is okay with them. However, their premise is that you perform either test properly and don’t compromise it with problems such as loose or dirty connections, damaged test leads, etc. One engineer told me that although the conductivity test is easier to perform and therefore widely used, he still swore by the load test as the better approach. Another engineer simply commented, “Neither technique is foolproof.”

The engineers I interviewed agreed that first, charging an AGM battery is similar to charging a traditional flooded battery. Second, it’s more difficult to fully charge an AGM—and do it reasonably quickly—without the correct equipment. So I urge you to update to an AGM-type battery charger if you haven’t already done so. After all, these batteries are becoming more popular. All my homework indicates that using an AGM-capable charger is the safest, fastest, most accurate way to do the job.

In a pinch, you can use a conventional battery charger on an AGM battery if you faithfully follow some rules. Yes, these rules may be too inconvenient for some people. First, connect a digital voltmeter to the AGM battery before you turn on the charger. Then turn it on and charge away as long as battery voltage doesn’t exceed about 14.40 volts. I’m intentionally being conservative here; some manufacturers put the limit at 14.40 to 14.60; others state 14.80 volts. Where necessary, turn the charger setting down until the voltage is within limits. Then monitor the voltage to be sure it remains within limits during the charging process. For your information, a trusty old roll-about charger can push that battery to 16.00 to 17.00 volts or greater.

Second, regularly monitor battery temperature while you’re charging with a conventional charger. If you’ve practiced this, you know that the battery feels warm under normal conditions. But stop charging if that battery becomes uncomfortably hot to the touch. Basically, hot batteries are bad batteries!

If an AGM battery doesn’t overheat but remains within the voltage range during charging, continue charging and periodically take the battery off the charger and retest it. Although this approach can get the customer back on the road again, it may recharge that AGM to only about 80%.

Last but not least, you could encounter an AGM battery that’s so discharged—voltage is so low—that the battery charger won’t even turn on. You can circumvent this by connecting a good spare battery to it in parallel (positive terminal to positive terminal, negative to negative). Now connect the charger to the good, spare battery and begin charging. Then patiently monitor the dead AGM battery to see if it gets hot during the charging process. Stop charging right away and discard that battery if it gets hot.

If the badly discharged AGM battery doesn’t heat up, slowly recharge it through the spare battery until its voltage is high enough to satisfy the charger—probably 10.50 volts or greater. Then shut off the charger and disconnect it and the spare battery. Now reconnect the charger directly to the AGM battery and continue charging.
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      05-07-2012, 01:58 PM   #62
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Been over a month, just back from a 2500 mile round trip Pennsylvania to Florida vacation. Had no issues since the battery was replaced.


Yesterday SWMBO took the X5 down to Lowe's and back - maybe 10 miles roundtrip - no issues. Car sat in the driveway for a couple hours before I go to pull it into it's bay...High Battery Drain.

No errors this morning or at lunch, but still going in to get checked over while I'm out of town on business this week.
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      05-07-2012, 10:10 PM   #63
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Kenny T is the Godfather of AGM battery info!!
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      05-11-2012, 07:40 AM   #64
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Yesterday SWMBO took the X5 down to Lowe's and back - maybe 10 miles roundtrip - no issues. Car sat in the driveway for a couple hours before I go to pull it into it's bay...High Battery Drain.

No errors this morning or at lunch, but still going in to get checked over while I'm out of town on business this week.
Update - Dealer has had the X5 since Tuesday, has twice found a small draw for an hour, but haven't been able to replicate it.

In the meantime I'm rocking the loaner 2012 X3 28i...interesting vehicle.
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      05-11-2012, 02:36 PM   #65
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No message since battery replacement (even with short trips). Highly recommend a smart battery charger that can handle AGM battery to extend the battery life. Hopefully they will resolve your issue.

Northern2020, thanks for your kind words.
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      05-12-2012, 09:33 AM   #66
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Just to give everyone an update on my "battery drain issue",,this is the second time it has been in for a battery discharge issue. The first time,,,all they did was to charge up the battery and said that every thing checked out OK. Took it in again about 2 weeks ago,,,they decided to put in a new battery,,,they kept it overnight and guess what,,,still had the issue. They worked with BMW factory over the next few days and I got a call about 4 days ago saying that my vehicle when assembled had the wrong alternator put in,,,(????), I guess it's possible,,,,, so I will report back when the "original" alternator gets put in and see what happens.

On the flip side however,,,they gave me a new (2012) 750 Li to use as a loaner,,,so I reaally can't complain too much except that I want my own vehicle back!!!!
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