Still just too many questions about tires and wheel

AlexGP · 12-17-2010, 08:19 AM

Friends,
I will be pulling the trigger on the 2011 SAV model in a couple of months, and even tho’ I’ve done plenty of due diligence, I still have many doubts which I would appreciate any assistance with.

a) Subject: RFTs
I understand the concept, but am not sure I buy it (not that I have much choice).
Case in point: was driving my mom’s 2009 MB C300 on Sunday night under a heavy rainstorm. Was doing maybe 30mph, went over two consecutive potholes 50ft apart – from the impact they did not seem that big. After the second one, the car’s dashboard went crazy with red lights indicating massive tire pressure failure. With that and the drive feel, it took me 1 sec to realize I had a flat. Since we were only 2 miles away from her house, I made it easily there, but at no more than 20mph and, though car control was fine, drive feel was terrible.
So much so that I can’t imagine driving much faster than that or for many tens of miles at all.

Therefore, here are my questions:
- I understand the 2011 X5s come with no spare tires as default and that there is an option for a “space saver tire” . I assume that this is a donut. Would it not be a no-brainer getting such option, in the case that you are in the middle of nowhere (ie, 50 or more miles away from a dealer/gas station/tire shop?
- I am told a BMW dealer has something called tire warranty/insurance at an extra cost. Has anyone purchased this? How does it work?

b) Subject: ideal tire/wheel set-up
I have researched a lot here and I know there are a few adamant and opposing schools of thought.
I live in Boston and many moons ago had a second gen M3 which was understandably a disaster as soon as we had a coating of snow/slush/sleet/ice on the road.
Since I am solid on wanting the staggered 20-inch wheels/tires of the SAV, my research tells me that (a) it is a no-brainer that I will need winter tires, and (b) that I will be OK with winter tires of the same size as the staggered 20-inch ones (I am told by experts that this could even work better than 19-inch all-seasons).
So, can anyone that has had experience in the winter of the Northeast or Central states tell me if the below plan seems reasonable (same tire size all year):

April (delivery date) through November: OEM tires
November through April: Winter tires (Pirelli Scorpion)
Next April through November: OEM tires until they wear out, then Conti DWS
Next November through April: Winter tires (Pirelli Scorpion)
And so on…

Since I drive 10k miles per year or so, I figure the Scorpions would last me a good 3-4 winters.

An additional question that I have is this:
In case a get a flat, and since these tires are not necessarily readily available (especially the winter ones) would it not make sense to buy an extra front and extra rear tire from day one?

Thanks!!!

Kief · 12-17-2010, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexGP

Therefore, here are my questions:
- I understand the 2011 X5s come with no spare tires as default and that there is an option for a “space saver tire” . I assume that this is a donut. Would it not be a no-brainer getting such option, in the case that you are in the middle of nowhere (ie, 50 or more miles away from a dealer/gas station/tire shop?
- I am told a BMW dealer has something called tire warranty/insurance at an extra cost. Has anyone purchased this? How does it work?

b)
April (delivery date) through November: OEM tires
November through April: Winter tires (Pirelli Scorpion)
Next April through November: OEM tires until they wear out, then Conti DWS
Next November through April: Winter tires (Pirelli Scorpion)
And so on…

An additional question that I have is this:
In case a get a flat, and since these tires are not necessarily readily available (especially the winter ones) would it not make sense to buy an extra front and extra rear tire from day one?
Thanks!!!

a) Yes, purchase the spare option, so long as you aren't getting the 3rd row seats. For $150 bucks it is worth the peace of mind. Plus, you'll need it if you switch out to the Contis DWS since they are non-RFT. But don't worry so much about the RFTs. If you are that concerned, switch them out at delivery and sell them to someone leasing who needs them. Better yet, switch them out for the Conti DWS and forgo the dedicated winter set-up altogether--depending on what types of conditions you drive in during the winter. Once my 214s go bald, I'm just switching to the Contis all year. In the meantime, I have a winter set-up. The wheel/rim warranty is just a form of insurance. Some swear by it, while others don't. It all depends on what makes you sleep at night. You'll need to read the fine print for each plan as they vary greatly.

b) A winter tire will be the best for the winter, but again, depending on what you need to drive in the winter will help you determine what you need. Search as some folks have 20" winters and are happy. However, if you do need winters, you should get dedicated winter rims so you don't need to switch tires off rims twice a year. And I would not buy an "extra" set of tires in case you do get a flat. RFTs can be repaired depending on the location of the puncture.

AlexGP · 12-17-2010, 04:37 PM

Thanks, your advice is much appreciated.

Ikendiken · 12-17-2010, 05:13 PM

Here is my advice. You are in Boston. Get a set of winter tires and rims. You don't need 20" winters. You'd be better off with a 19" non-staggered set.

Get the spare. Even if you keep the RFT having a spare is a good idea.

Get a portable compressor and a couple of cans of slime.

I don't think you need to buy an extra tire to have around and at 10k miles a year the insurance might be overkill.

263464757 · 12-18-2010, 12:23 AM

your on the right track. I've had several 4wd-all season set up's and 2wd summer/winter set up's. Even though I live in kentucky, I grew up in Michigan and am very picky about winter driving ability. Kentucky isn't the snow belt but we get a couple of 6-8", sometimes 12" snowfalls and they don't plow the roads where I live "and" pretty extreme uphill & downhill terrain.

Here's my current "trial" set up on a 2011, 5.0, sport activity, with 20" style 336's.

Note: My baseline for winter was to try and do as good or better then my 4wd Toyota 4-runner,with Mich LTX 285/70/16. That's a 32" tire that allows the truck to go "ANYWHERE" more or less.

I first played around with OEM Bridgestone Dueler's for two snow falls. Results were: amazing acceleration considering I was on "high performance summers". However, stopping was terrible... flat out scary!

Currently running, Pirelli scorpions 275/40's on front and Conti DWS 315/35's on rear. So far I have only tested on 1/2" icy road that you could skate on. I had no problems accelerating or stopping. I think I'm close if not even with the 4-runner. I plan on purchasing two style 336 front wheels and mounting Conti DWS's for summer ops, therefor, just needing to swap fronts for winter ops.

There is no question winter tires on all 4 corners would be the best but frankly I already store 6 wheel/tire combos and am tired of it. As for non-staggard set up's, I'm sure they work fine, but they look terrible from the rear. It looks like a wheel set up that Ford would put on a Explorer!

Remember, with this X5, acceleration is not the problem, stopping is. I even played around with OEM's, locking up wheels for a short distance (10-12') on fresh snow, then got out to see which tires were skidding...it was only the fronts.

I'll try and keep ya posted on the rest of the winter, and for those who are going to tell me about the hazards of not running winter's on 4 corners...I've read that stuff to...Bla, bla, bla!

Also, don't tell tire Rack what your doing, they may not sell them to ya in "my" current combo, it happened to a friend of mine just today! In fact, tell them to mind there own freakin business!

Anyway, something to chew on! Good luck! I'll be happy to help

AlexGP · 12-18-2010, 06:08 AM

Thanks a bunch to you as well, yes, please keep me posted - I agree 100% on your Explorer analogy (one of the reasons to get the SAV is exactly the 20-inchers!)

richard in NC · 12-18-2010, 03:01 PM

My choice for winters is a set of 4 Pirelli Scorpion Ice & Snow. I've not had a chance to use them on ice or snow yet but likely will on a trip to WV over Christmas. Might get icy roads tonight as well even in Charlotte.

I got mine to fit the staggered M Sport 19s (255/50 front and 285/45 rear). Not the best winter setup but they should be more than capable for my winter driving needs.

Next spring I'll decide whether to remount the 19s or get performance 20s on style 336 or 333M wheels.

263464757 · 12-18-2010, 05:20 PM

I also want to make a note about directional tires vs non directionals. I have always been able to avoid directionals. I dont like them. All my bmw's have always had a staggered set up and directionals limit tread life. I have always rotated staggered setup's left to right which "reverses" rotational direction of tire and therefore eliminates cupping. You need to do this max every 5000 mi.

You can read up on cupping but basically, with respect to "BMW" tire wear, the rear edge of each lug wears less than the front edge. It produces a sharper edge when running hand across each lug from back to front vs front to back. Tires that have basically individual outside lugs or tread blocks with very little support between them allow this to happen easier than a tire with more of a continuous outside lug blocks all the way around. There are pros and cons to both.

If you spend a lot of time studying the tread patterns of each tire and then compare that to the reviews for each of the types of road conditions, you will understand why they produce a particular result. You will have no surprise's with what ever you order if you do this. I believe "tread groves" or "tread voids" refers to the continuous grove around the circumference vs "chinking" & "sipe's", which is the many cuts within each lug. Chinking/Siping is what I believe really sets snow and ice tires apart from the rest. You will may also notice most snow tires do not allow for a continuous tread voids.

Another note: I have friends that run the Blizzak on anything from Honda's to Porsche"s and they all say the same...great for traction, but cornering feels soft with what they believe to be soft sidewalls allowing more tire roll.

Anyway, just a few more thoughts.

AlexGP · 12-19-2010, 05:54 AM

Thanks again

X5dieselfan · 12-20-2010, 11:52 AM

I traded out my 4.8is for a 3.5d - I had the RFT on the 4.8is and had them replaced at 18k miles with NRFT. I had one flat tire with the RFT and had to replace all 4 at the same time due to the tread wear on the others it was determined that they were ready to be replaced. I did use the spare tire when I had the RFT deflate on my about 1 mile from my home, this was after I had traveled on the tire for about 30 miles on the highway. Have the spare was helpful as opposed to having to sit on the road for who knows how long, in the middle of the night. I am trying to remember if I needed a key to get the lugnuts off.
My biggest regret now is that I did not order a spare on my new 3.5d - Not sure what I was thinking!

Having said that, here are a few questions:

Are there any aftermarket spare tire kits you can by that fit in the spare area as if it was purchased as original equipment?

What are some other ideas- I have read cans of tire repair kept in the car, spare jack in the car, etc. Not sure how that will be - concerned about jack rattling around the back of the car.

Any experience with a flat tire and BMW roadside assistance? If so, what happened?

Can you repair a Run Flat Tire?

Do you usually have to buy a set of tires if one blows, depending on tire tread remaining?

Thanks!

Cdnrockies · 12-20-2010, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by X5dieselfan

Can you repair a Run Flat Tire?
Thanks!

Yes, you can repair an RFT as long as it's a simple, small puncture leak in the tread and not the sidewall. Some shops will tell you otherwise but it is simple and there is no safety issue if it isn't in the wall.

To the OP, we run the OEM non-staggered 19" wheels with the Pirelli Scorpions for the winter and they are excellent. Vehicle is easy to control with good stopping power. For the summer, we run a staggered 20" set up with the Conti DWS and cannot say enough good things about this tire. It is hands down the best performance all season tire that I have ever experienced.

baby huey · 12-20-2010, 02:27 PM

I've been told that most shops will not repair and RFT, irrespective of how it went flat. Reason being, when you drive on the RFT after it's lost air, there's no way to evaluate how much damage you've done to the tire sidewall, so there's a real liability issue of they're repaired.

Cdnrockies · 12-20-2010, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baby huey

I've been told that most shops will not repair and RFT, irrespective of how it went flat. Reason being, when you drive on the RFT after it's lost air, there's no way to evaluate how much damage you've done to the tire sidewall, so there's a real liability issue of they're repaired.

That's a shady shop then that is trying to sell new tires. With TPMS sensors there isn't going to be an immediate or massive loss of air unless their is a blow out and, of course, then the tire would need to be replaced anyways.

The TPMS sensors let you know when the tire is low not totally flat. RFT are supposed to be designed to run with zero air in them on a short term, emergency basis. If you drive to a service station when down, say 8 psi, you aren't going to ruin the tire or compromise it's integrity.

In our less litigious society up here, the liability issue may be less. The local tire shop has fixed my father's RFT's twice with no discussion whatsoever (different tires, 2 different times).

12-17-2010, 08:19 AM	#1
AlexGP Private First Class 26 Rep 182 Posts Drives: 2001 BMW X5 3.0 Join Date: May 2009 Location: MA iTrader: (0)	Still just too many questions about tires and wheel - help! Friends, I will be pulling the trigger on the 2011 SAV model in a couple of months, and even tho’ I’ve done plenty of due diligence, I still have many doubts which I would appreciate any assistance with. a) Subject: RFTs I understand the concept, but am not sure I buy it (not that I have much choice). Case in point: was driving my mom’s 2009 MB C300 on Sunday night under a heavy rainstorm. Was doing maybe 30mph, went over two consecutive potholes 50ft apart – from the impact they did not seem that big. After the second one, the car’s dashboard went crazy with red lights indicating massive tire pressure failure. With that and the drive feel, it took me 1 sec to realize I had a flat. Since we were only 2 miles away from her house, I made it easily there, but at no more than 20mph and, though car control was fine, drive feel was terrible. So much so that I can’t imagine driving much faster than that or for many tens of miles at all. Therefore, here are my questions: - I understand the 2011 X5s come with no spare tires as default and that there is an option for a “space saver tire” . I assume that this is a donut. Would it not be a no-brainer getting such option, in the case that you are in the middle of nowhere (ie, 50 or more miles away from a dealer/gas station/tire shop? - I am told a BMW dealer has something called tire warranty/insurance at an extra cost. Has anyone purchased this? How does it work? b) Subject: ideal tire/wheel set-up I have researched a lot here and I know there are a few adamant and opposing schools of thought. I live in Boston and many moons ago had a second gen M3 which was understandably a disaster as soon as we had a coating of snow/slush/sleet/ice on the road. Since I am solid on wanting the staggered 20-inch wheels/tires of the SAV, my research tells me that (a) it is a no-brainer that I will need winter tires, and (b) that I will be OK with winter tires of the same size as the staggered 20-inch ones (I am told by experts that this could even work better than 19-inch all-seasons). So, can anyone that has had experience in the winter of the Northeast or Central states tell me if the below plan seems reasonable (same tire size all year): April (delivery date) through November: OEM tires November through April: Winter tires (Pirelli Scorpion) Next April through November: OEM tires until they wear out, then Conti DWS Next November through April: Winter tires (Pirelli Scorpion) And so on… Since I drive 10k miles per year or so, I figure the Scorpions would last me a good 3-4 winters. An additional question that I have is this: In case a get a flat, and since these tires are not necessarily readily available (especially the winter ones) would it not make sense to buy an extra front and extra rear tire from day one? Thanks!!!
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12-17-2010, 04:37 PM	#3
AlexGP Private First Class 26 Rep 182 Posts Drives: 2001 BMW X5 3.0 Join Date: May 2009 Location: MA iTrader: (0)	Thanks, your advice is much appreciated.
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12-17-2010, 05:13 PM	#4
Ikendiken Private First Class 2 Rep 126 Posts Drives: '13 E92 M3 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Arlington, VA iTrader: (0)	Here is my advice. You are in Boston. Get a set of winter tires and rims. You don't need 20" winters. You'd be better off with a 19" non-staggered set. Get the spare. Even if you keep the RFT having a spare is a good idea. Get a portable compressor and a couple of cans of slime. I don't think you need to buy an extra tire to have around and at 10k miles a year the insurance might be overkill.
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12-18-2010, 12:23 AM	#5
263464757 Lt. General 7 Rep 143 Posts Drives: X5 5.0, 540i, 1965 C2 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Louisville iTrader: (0)	Winter/Summer tire combo your on the right track. I've had several 4wd-all season set up's and 2wd summer/winter set up's. Even though I live in kentucky, I grew up in Michigan and am very picky about winter driving ability. Kentucky isn't the snow belt but we get a couple of 6-8", sometimes 12" snowfalls and they don't plow the roads where I live "and" pretty extreme uphill & downhill terrain. Here's my current "trial" set up on a 2011, 5.0, sport activity, with 20" style 336's. Note: My baseline for winter was to try and do as good or better then my 4wd Toyota 4-runner,with Mich LTX 285/70/16. That's a 32" tire that allows the truck to go "ANYWHERE" more or less. I first played around with OEM Bridgestone Dueler's for two snow falls. Results were: amazing acceleration considering I was on "high performance summers". However, stopping was terrible... flat out scary! Currently running, Pirelli scorpions 275/40's on front and Conti DWS 315/35's on rear. So far I have only tested on 1/2" icy road that you could skate on. I had no problems accelerating or stopping. I think I'm close if not even with the 4-runner. I plan on purchasing two style 336 front wheels and mounting Conti DWS's for summer ops, therefor, just needing to swap fronts for winter ops. There is no question winter tires on all 4 corners would be the best but frankly I already store 6 wheel/tire combos and am tired of it. As for non-staggard set up's, I'm sure they work fine, but they look terrible from the rear. It looks like a wheel set up that Ford would put on a Explorer! Remember, with this X5, acceleration is not the problem, stopping is. I even played around with OEM's, locking up wheels for a short distance (10-12') on fresh snow, then got out to see which tires were skidding...it was only the fronts. I'll try and keep ya posted on the rest of the winter, and for those who are going to tell me about the hazards of not running winter's on 4 corners...I've read that stuff to...Bla, bla, bla! Also, don't tell tire Rack what your doing, they may not sell them to ya in "my" current combo, it happened to a friend of mine just today! In fact, tell them to mind there own freakin business! Anyway, something to chew on! Good luck! I'll be happy to help
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12-18-2010, 06:08 AM	#6
AlexGP Private First Class 26 Rep 182 Posts Drives: 2001 BMW X5 3.0 Join Date: May 2009 Location: MA iTrader: (0)	Thanks a bunch to you as well, yes, please keep me posted - I agree 100% on your Explorer analogy (one of the reasons to get the SAV is exactly the 20-inchers!)
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12-18-2010, 03:01 PM	#7
richard in NC Colonel 1229 Rep 2,602 Posts Drives: 2009 Z4 35i Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Charlotte, NC iTrader: (0)	My choice for winters is a set of 4 Pirelli Scorpion Ice & Snow. I've not had a chance to use them on ice or snow yet but likely will on a trip to WV over Christmas. Might get icy roads tonight as well even in Charlotte. I got mine to fit the staggered M Sport 19s (255/50 front and 285/45 rear). Not the best winter setup but they should be more than capable for my winter driving needs. Next spring I'll decide whether to remount the 19s or get performance 20s on style 336 or 333M wheels. __________________ 2020 X3M non-comp, Alpine White over black : Exec Pkg, ventilated M Sport seats, 20"s 2020 M2 Comp, Sunset Orange/Blk: Orange stitching, DCT, exec pkg, bicolor rims Gone '18 M550i, '16 X4 M40i, '15 M5, '13 X3 35i, '12 335is, '11 X5 50i, '09 Z4 35i, '08 550i, 06 X3, 06 650i, '02 M5, '99 540i
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12-18-2010, 05:20 PM	#8
263464757 Lt. General 7 Rep 143 Posts Drives: X5 5.0, 540i, 1965 C2 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Louisville iTrader: (0)	I also want to make a note about directional tires vs non directionals. I have always been able to avoid directionals. I dont like them. All my bmw's have always had a staggered set up and directionals limit tread life. I have always rotated staggered setup's left to right which "reverses" rotational direction of tire and therefore eliminates cupping. You need to do this max every 5000 mi. You can read up on cupping but basically, with respect to "BMW" tire wear, the rear edge of each lug wears less than the front edge. It produces a sharper edge when running hand across each lug from back to front vs front to back. Tires that have basically individual outside lugs or tread blocks with very little support between them allow this to happen easier than a tire with more of a continuous outside lug blocks all the way around. There are pros and cons to both. If you spend a lot of time studying the tread patterns of each tire and then compare that to the reviews for each of the types of road conditions, you will understand why they produce a particular result. You will have no surprise's with what ever you order if you do this. I believe "tread groves" or "tread voids" refers to the continuous grove around the circumference vs "chinking" & "sipe's", which is the many cuts within each lug. Chinking/Siping is what I believe really sets snow and ice tires apart from the rest. You will may also notice most snow tires do not allow for a continuous tread voids. Another note: I have friends that run the Blizzak on anything from Honda's to Porsche"s and they all say the same...great for traction, but cornering feels soft with what they believe to be soft sidewalls allowing more tire roll. Anyway, just a few more thoughts.
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12-19-2010, 05:54 AM	#9
AlexGP Private First Class 26 Rep 182 Posts Drives: 2001 BMW X5 3.0 Join Date: May 2009 Location: MA iTrader: (0)	Thanks again
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12-20-2010, 11:52 AM	#10
X5dieselfan Enlisted Member 4 Rep 33 Posts Drives: 2011x53.5d Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: N.Cal usa iTrader: (0)	I traded out my 4.8is for a 3.5d - I had the RFT on the 4.8is and had them replaced at 18k miles with NRFT. I had one flat tire with the RFT and had to replace all 4 at the same time due to the tread wear on the others it was determined that they were ready to be replaced. I did use the spare tire when I had the RFT deflate on my about 1 mile from my home, this was after I had traveled on the tire for about 30 miles on the highway. Have the spare was helpful as opposed to having to sit on the road for who knows how long, in the middle of the night. I am trying to remember if I needed a key to get the lugnuts off. My biggest regret now is that I did not order a spare on my new 3.5d - Not sure what I was thinking! Having said that, here are a few questions: Are there any aftermarket spare tire kits you can by that fit in the spare area as if it was purchased as original equipment? What are some other ideas- I have read cans of tire repair kept in the car, spare jack in the car, etc. Not sure how that will be - concerned about jack rattling around the back of the car. Any experience with a flat tire and BMW roadside assistance? If so, what happened? Can you repair a Run Flat Tire? Do you usually have to buy a set of tires if one blows, depending on tire tread remaining? Thanks!
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12-20-2010, 02:27 PM	#12
baby huey Private First Class 8 Rep 123 Posts Drives: 2013 X5M Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Rhode Island iTrader: (0)	RFT Repairs I've been told that most shops will not repair and RFT, irrespective of how it went flat. Reason being, when you drive on the RFT after it's lost air, there's no way to evaluate how much damage you've done to the tire sidewall, so there's a real liability issue of they're repaired.
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