$20 minimum wage for Fast-Food workers in California [LOCKED DUE TO POLITICS / COVID]

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by spazzyfry123

National average income 1970: $8,730 ($68,557 in 2023 money)
National average income 2023: $59,384

National average home price 1970: $23,400 ($183,763 in 2023 money)
National average rent price 1970: $108/mo ($848 in 2023 money)
National average home price 2023: $495,100
National average rent price 2023: $1,372/mo

So accounting for inflation, average income has dropped 13%, but the average price of a home has increased 169% since 1970. Rent has jumped 62%.

Granted these numbers are pulled from different sources, and I don't know why I chose 1970, but it doesn't matter - it paints the picture that income has dropped a considerable amount and the cost to live has really gone up.

As somone who lived and worked in San Francisco, California in 1970, I'd suggest it's an excellent starting point. The reason for that is it was early days in a decade of remarkable inflation. At the beginning of the decade, home prices hadn't begun the meteoric rise in California property values that continues to this day, and a working stiff could still support a family and own a home in the City. That reality soon ended.

The 1970s was the decade this country began to choose to live beyond its means in a significant way, and we've been doing so ever since. See:

https://www.thebalancemoney.com/us-d...y-year-3306306

We've generally been successful because we have the world's reserve currency (read: foreigners will buy the bonds that finance our annual deficits) and because we're still rich enough to make the interest payments on our current $34.6 trillion of national debt. However, the day of reckoning is approaching, and to continue to make the numbers work, Americans who are younger today will find it necessary to pull the plug on the party. I'm glad I won't be here to see how that plays out.

Since the subject is minimum wage workers, it's worth noting that the difference in the financial lives of much of the bottom 50% and the lives of those in the top 20% are so different that it's a wonder we don't have more social unrest. I've assumed it's because the American Dream is still alive and well and that it continues to inspire our citizens as it draws-in millions of people from around the world, both legally and illegally. That dream must be kept alive or the day when we won't recognize our country may be closer than we imagine.

Originally Posted by TboneS54

Another political stunt meant to solicit future votes; nothing more.

There's no real need at this time, as CA is fully and completely a one-party state. Running with your thought, though, it's certainly yet another form of virtue signaling.

[spazzyfry123]

Originally Posted by floridaorange

$20 x 40 hours = $800 x 4 = $3200, how much of that $3200. $38,500 a year minus taxes = $31,966

So even though you’re not meant to “live on min wage” $31,966 is hardly enough to live on in California.

That’s assuming you have no kids.

Assuming you get a full 40 hour work week with a minimum wage job to begin with (I doubt you will; I think <30 hours = part time / >30 hours = full time in CA), you'll see $41,600/yr and bring home $35,721 of that between federal and state taxes assuming there are no lower-income tax subsidies.

Part time employees are not obligated to offer benefits such as health insurance under ACA as an example. Overtime (1.5x pay) doesn't kick in until 40+ hours. Etc. Employers would be mad to offer 40 hour work weeks to minimum wage employees at this rate. Imagine paying now $30/hr for an entry level fast food worker in plus hours and covering xx% of a medical plan on top.

My guess is you'll be floating an average of high 20s of hours a week and see closer to mid-to-high $20k take home after a full year of work. Your only option is to have two or three jobs to achieve enough hours to be "full time", but not qualifying for any of the benefits of being full time.

So we're landing at someone, in California (that also has a 7.5% base sales tax), is realistically going to be trying to "live" with $25k in their pocket after a year's work.

What is the benefit in doing this? The only output I see is the cost of "_____" will rise substantially for everyone with no meaningful impact to those on the recipient side of $20/hr.

[clutchdj]

Smoke in mirrors. Unions and politicians. They are in bed with each other, and will soon, if not already govern every major city. They do not care about employees and their wages. That is on the surface with all of the emotion. They care about political advancement and the unions with their dues. The dollar just shrinks in the long run, for everyone.

[ezaircon4jc]

Originally Posted by 2000cs

...I also think “tipping culture” will spread and get worse (consumer perspective) as a way to have the consumer pay the employees more...

Once restaurants started adding 3%-4% to the bill to "cover increased costs," I started deducting that same percentage from my tip.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

A step in the right direction finally.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc

Minimum wage jobs are ENTRY, NON-SKILLED positions. No one is supposed to live on minimum wage. I've said it before, if one is at minimum wage for more than 6 months, they're pretty much a loser. As long as one puts in the effort and does a good job, they will get a six-month bump. Fast food isn't supposed to be a career either; unless one moves into management. Your local FF jobs are supposed to be for teenagers working their first job (or maybe retired peeps just looking to keep busy), not someone raising a family.

This logic does not work in our current state. We cannot have a society without people fullfilling min wage job permanently. I used to have this narrow minded view but then I grew and realised how wrong I was.

[Maestro]

If find yourself working in fast food place and you’re not a teenager and still living under your parent’s roof, you should be saying to yourself what the hell did you do wrong in your life. Those jobs that pay minimum wage were meant for anyone to provide a living wage. Those are starter jobs to get experience and teach you to do something better in life.

I personally never did those kinds of jobs when I was teenager. I was always was able to find jobs that paid more, but those jobs required you to work hard real manual labor. One job I had was working in lumber yard loading contractors trucks, another was working on golf course taking care of greens and stuff, I also worked in the warehouse of moving company unloading and loading trucks.

I understand not everyone has skills, however, if you want to make a good living there are plenty of jobs that do not require a degree of specific skills that pay really well, but you have have to work. One example you can become a truck driver, most companies will train you and the starting wage is $55k, however, it’s not an easy work. There are 10 of thousands of truck driver jobs.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by clutchdj

Smoke in mirrors. Unions and politicians. They are in bed with each other, and will soon, if not already govern every major city. They do not care about employees and their wages. That is on the surface with all of the emotion. They care about political advancement and the unions with their dues. The dollar just shrinks in the long run, for everyone.

Wtf are you guys talking about? Unions are great and are the only thing truly protecting workers. Wtaf am I reading. Y'all have been missled so hard by propaganda and shit. Or you're business owners that refuse to pay your employees properly.

I need to stop reading this thread, I'm loosing faith in humanity while wasting my time. Adios.

[clutchdj]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

Wtf are you guys talking about? Unions are great and are the only thing truly protecting workers. Wtaf am I reading. Y'all have been missled so hard by propaganda and shit. Or you're business owners that refuse to pay your employees properly.

I need to stop reading this thread, I'm loosing faith in humanity while wasting my time. Adios.

Whoa, lots of drama there. You prob should stop reading this thread. I mean you said it yourself. “We cannot have a society without people fullfilling min wage job permanently.”

[ezaircon4jc]

Originally Posted by Maestro

If find yourself working in fast food place and you’re not a teenager and still living under your parent’s roof, you should be saying to yourself what the hell did you do wrong in your life. Those jobs that pay minimum wage were meant for anyone to provide a living wage. Those are starter jobs to get experience and teach you to do something better in life.

I personally never did those kinds of jobs when I was teenager. I was always was able to find jobs that paid more, but those jobs required you to work hard real manual labor. One job I had was working in lumber yard loading contractors trucks, another was working on golf course taking care of greens and stuff, I also worked in the warehouse of moving company unloading and loading trucks.

I understand not everyone has skills, however, if you want to make a good living there are plenty of jobs that do not require a degree of specific skills that pay really well, but you have have to work. One example you can become a truck driver, most companies will train you and the starting wage is $55k, however, it’s not an easy work. There are 10 of thousands of truck driver jobs.

The worst trainees I had were college grads. They were very limited in their creativity. It takes a pretty unique set of skills and mentality to be a controller. Not everyone can handle the stress. Personally, it was just a voice on the other end of the radio and I had no emotional attachment to it and no matter what happened, I got to go home at the end of my shift; though there was a possibility of paperwork. I would say trucking also requires a certain skill-set. It's more than just driving.

Minimum wage increases, as was said before, also increases the wages of those higher up the wage ladder. If Joe fry cook gets an extra $4 than so should I. After all, I have seniority over Joe.

Unions are past their time (I've been in more than one). They do nothing but protect the incompetent and line the pockets of the officials. Like said before, higher wages=higher union dues. Next step is to unionize FF workers. The SEIU is just looking for more income.

Like I said before, if one is at minimum wage for more than 6 months, they are a loser.

[the_abe]

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/big-mac-cost-denmark/

[Weather Man]

The math has already started, and it is affecting even those not affected by the law.

Loren Wright, the owner of Fosters Freeze, cited the CA newly enacted minimum wage legislation as the driving force behind the restaurant’s closure. Despite potential exemptions for smaller businesses, Wright indicated that the wage hike would have placed unsustainable financial pressure on the establishment.

[Reborn_]

Originally Posted by Maestro

If find yourself working in fast food place and you’re not a teenager and still living under your parent’s roof, you should be saying to yourself what the hell did you do wrong in your life. Those jobs that pay minimum wage were meant for anyone to provide a living wage. Those are starter jobs to get experience and teach you to do something better in life.

I personally never did those kinds of jobs when I was teenager. I was always was able to find jobs that paid more, but those jobs required you to work hard real manual labor. One job I had was working in lumber yard loading contractors trucks, another was working on golf course taking care of greens and stuff, I also worked in the warehouse of moving company unloading and loading trucks.

I understand not everyone has skills, however, if you want to make a good living there are plenty of jobs that do not require a degree of specific skills that pay really well, but you have have to work. One example you can become a truck driver, most companies will train you and the starting wage is $55k, however, it’s not an easy work. There are 10 of thousands of truck driver jobs.

I agree, but the majority (in my experience, in CA) of fast food workers I see are in their 30s-50s, which suggests that is their 'career.' So my point is that there is a large number of unskilled worker unable or unwilling to upskill. If we eliminate the available work (which a wage hike like this inevitably does, covered already in one of the first posts), then these people will just need to be paid by all of us (unemployment and welfare).

[Car-Addicted]

“I am for doing good to the poor, but...I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. I observed...that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.”
― Benjamin Franklin

[Alfisti]

I'm always in two minds with this. As a former employer of entry level folks I can see the need to temper wages as the costs are real to employers but coming from Australia, where entry level jobs have always, always paid a TON more than the USA, they seem to make it work just fine.

[Car-Addicted]

Newsom's Restaurant Pays $16 an Hour Despite Law Crippling Fast Food Chains with $20 Minimum Wage
However, this only applies to fast food restaurants -- not, say, high-end restaurants and wineries owned by posh individuals like, oh, say, Gavin Newsom. But surely those employees are making over $20 an hour already, right?
Yet again, Newsom is leading by anti-example, according to the Post.
"PlumpJack Cafe in Olympic Valley -- which is among a group of eateries owned by a company Newsom founded in 1992 -- is hiring a part-time busser who 'will aim to assist the food server … to ensure guest satisfaction during all aspects of the dining experience,' according to a ZipRecruiter posting," the outlet reported on Thursday.
"The job listing states the salary for the busser is $16 an hour plus tips."
https://www.westernjournal.com/newso...-minimum-wage/

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

I'm always in two minds with this. As a former employer of entry level folks I can see the need to temper wages as the costs are real to employers but coming from Australia, where entry level jobs have always, always paid a TON more than the USA, they seem to make it work just fine.

How though? You’re the second person brining up some other country. I have no personal experience with how it works in other countries but the math is the math.

If you raise wages you either have to increase prices, cut somewhere else or lower profits and I’m willing to bet most big corporations will not do the latter.

Maybe Australia uses special math, but if that’s the case why stop at $20/hour? If raising labor costs has no negative effects why not keep going? I’m sure there are plenty of places you can’t live in for $20/hour. Why not $30 or $50 or $480/hour so everyone can become a millionaire in a year.

[LuxoM3]

So minimum wage aside, the actual argument for minimum wage is a "living wage"...

I live near San Francisco. They did a study on what a livable wage was for San Francisco. The result?

$50+/hour or a $100,000 salary... to afford food and rent and occasionally eat out and take a small vacation.

And we actually have politicians out here (Barbara Lee) who is pushing for a $50 "living wage" because "businesses can afford it."

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

How though? You’re the second person brining up some other country. I have no personal experience with how it works in other countries but the math is the math.

If you raise wages you either have to increase prices, cut somewhere else or lower profits and I’m willing to bet most big corporations will not do the latter.

Maybe Australia uses special math, but if that’s the case why stop at $20/hour? If raising labor costs has no negative effects why not keep going? I’m sure there are plenty of places you can’t live in for $20/hour. Why not $30 or $50 or $480/hour so everyone can become a millionaire in a year.

I don't think folks are saying it has no effect but look, the Australian economy has been amongst the worlds best for 25 years now and income inequality, whilst worsening, is nowhere near as stark as it is in the USA. Issues like crime and homelessness are not even close to the US figures. Not all this is related to minimum wage but I think at times you guys down there get a bit closed minded on the way other societies function.

All I know is, I go home pretty often and i see ads for $30 an hr for grocery clerks, yes the cost of living is higher than the USA but it seems to work with at least the same success as the US low min wage theory in a broad sense.

[Lady Jane]

Cartoon of the day.

[2000cs]

Originally Posted by LuxoM3

So minimum wage aside, the actual argument for minimum wage is a "living wage"...

I live near San Francisco. They did a study on what a livable wage was for San Francisco. The result?

$50+/hour or a $100,000 salary... to afford food and rent and occasionally eat out and take a small vacation.

And we actually have politicians out here (Barbara Lee) who is pushing for a $50 "living wage" because "businesses can afford it."

And of course this is a static analysis. The dynamic is once a “living wage” is achieved, all wages rise and prices inflate. So housing once again becomes unaffordable for those at the bottom. The dynamic effects are not uniform; some do better and some worse. But raising the minimum wage does not improve affordability after the economy adjusts.

[2000cs]

Originally Posted by Lady Jane

Cartoon of the day.


Attachment 3426972

I like the Wimpy reference on the left side in the picture: “Gladly pay us Tuesday for a hamburger today”. LOL