Velos Designwerks | Stage 1 Performance Tune for X5 5.0 (4.4L) | Introductory Offer

[Omar@VelosDesignwerks]

Dear Members,

Here is the release on our Stage 1 Performance software for the X5 5.0 (4.4L). Please PM for info on introductory pricing. Feel free to ask any other questions here in the thread.

Through careful remapping of the factory ECU and countless hours of testing, Velos Designwerks is pleased to announce the release of its performance software for the N63 BMW 4.4L Liter Twin Turbo V8 Engine. Producing an astounding 402 hp and 440 lb-ft off of the assembly line, the Velos Designwerks engineering team has been able to increase this powerplant’s output to 455 hp and 532 lb-ft of torque.

The actual peak gains over the stock car is 58 hp and 72 lb ft of torque.

The Velos Designwerks X5 5.0i Performance Software and X6 5.0i Performance Software involves a remapping of several of the factory’s ECU maps including, but not limited to, the fuel maps, throttle maps, ignition maps, and limiters. The smooth increase in power delivery as well as the increase in torque brings this nearly 5,000 pound vehicle to close to M levels. With this 12% increase in horsepower and over 19% increase in torque, the N63 4.4 Liter Engine’s true potential is now fully unleashed with peak HP being reached at the new redline of 6800 rpm and peak tq at 3500 rpm.
While there are and will be other options available on the market, the Velos Designwerks Custom ECU Tune for the N63 BMW 4.4L Liter V8 Biturbo Engine produces real gains throughout the powerband that one can realistically expect to duplicate on their own. Several options available for this upgrade including the Velos Personal Tuner which allows you to complete this upgrade without sending Velos Designwerks your ECU. Stage 2 options are also available for vehicles fitted with full exhaust and downpipes for off-road use.

[Omar@VelosDesignwerks]

All pm's replied and yes solutions available for cars with downpipes as well!

[Maxx2]

Very interested in tuning my 50i and I've been doing a fair bit of research on all the available options. Of those which are currently available, this one seems to have the lowest numbers...

Is there are reason why you are down 40hp & 40lb-ft to Dinan? Are there hardware or software limitations? Would you be willing to run against a Dinan tuned N63 to compare real world gains?

Truly appreciate any info you can provide on the subject!!

Thanks!

[Omar@VelosDesignwerks]

Originally Posted by Maxx2

Very interested in tuning my 50i and I've been doing a fair bit of research on all the available options. Of those which are currently available, this one seems to have the lowest numbers...

Is there are reason why you are down 40hp & 40lb-ft to Dinan? Are there hardware or software limitations? Would you be willing to run against a Dinan tuned N63 to compare real world gains?

Truly appreciate any info you can provide on the subject!!

Thanks!

Maxx,

Thanks for the interest. With the exception of Dinan's "claimed" numbers we are right on par if not a little above other tuners claims. The Dinan claims seem to be a bit exaggerated for this motor/turbo combination (hardware limitation). We have tested at higher boost levels and noticed the turbos simply run out of air, there are other areas that have been addressed in the mapping to yield these results which are shown. The conditions were not the greatest and while we have seen gains of 40-55 rwhp regularly the average is usually around 30-40 depending on the run,etc. There is roughly 15-20whp left on the table since we only rev the car to 6500 rpm on the dyno (on the street it will rev to 6800 rpm with our tune). These gains are not as "impressive" as what you can get out of an X5/6 M but it is still a day and night difference over the stock car.

p.s. On some runs the car makes more HP and some times it makes more tq.. Not many people have dynoed an X5/6 5.0 so the numbers can also be "educated guesses" for the most part..

[TahoeM3]

What is the biggest limitation of the 50i compared to the M? Does the 50i have smaller turbos or is it more limited on the intake side? If both are 4.4 V8 TT, you'd think that with the right adjustments you could see similar gains. Being 100 HP down after a tune seems like a lot. I'm not saying Dinan's numbers are more accurate or that yours are low, just trying to piece together the reason for such a jump in HP besides added boost. If you're seeing the turbos running out of air, then I'd think that would be pretty easy to fix. Is there an intake restriction?

[Omar@VelosDesignwerks]

Originally Posted by TahoeM3

What is the biggest limitation of the 50i compared to the M? Does the 50i have smaller turbos or is it more limited on the intake side? If both are 4.4 V8 TT, you'd think that with the right adjustments you could see similar gains. Being 100 HP down after a tune seems like a lot. I'm not saying Dinan's numbers are more accurate or that yours are low, just trying to piece together the reason for such a jump in HP besides added boost. If you're seeing the turbos running out of air, then I'd think that would be pretty easy to fix. Is there an intake restriction?

Good question.

The biggest limitation would be the smaller turbos for one. Here is a part # for one of the turbos which an be cross referenced and you will notice it is different than the ones used on the M model. 11657590598 - I will remove part # after you have a chance to look it up.

The intake manifold/runners are also smaller and more restrictive, part # for cross reference, 11617555663. This is also a big limitation.

The bottom end may very well be similar but that is also a completely different part..

When I mention turbos running out of air it is because the turbos themselves are "done" not necessarily because of an intake restriction.

In terms of HP/TQ increase the 5.0's do not have the same potential as the M's.

[TahoeM3]

Interesting, thanks. But even with maxed out turbos, the engine would still make more power as the revs climb, instead of dropping off or plateauing...that suggests that while the turbos may well be maxed, the real restriction is either air or fuel. What do the AFRs look like after 5250 rpms? Do they drop off or does it stay stochiometric? If the ratio stays up, rather than plummetting, I'd say the restriction is either in the intake, manifold, or cams. that's the only way to explain the drop off of power above 5250 rpm.

[Omar@VelosDesignwerks]

Originally Posted by TahoeM3

Interesting, thanks. But even with maxed out turbos, the engine would still make more power as the revs climb, instead of dropping off or plateauing...that suggests that while the turbos may well be maxed, the real restriction is either air or fuel. What do the AFRs look like after 5250 rpms? Do they drop off or does it stay stochiometric? If the ratio stays up, rather than plummetting, I'd say the restriction is either in the intake, manifold, or cams. that's the only way to explain the drop off of power above 5250 rpm.

Basically at a certain point the turbo's can no longer provide the cfm required to allow the power curve to continue climbing. Keep in mind turbo's are not dependent on RPM, superchargers are. So having the RPM climb does not necessarily mean the power will continue climb as a result.

In regards to running out of fuel, that would only be possible assuming the turbo's were capable of delivering the flow necessary to max out the stock fuel system.

BMW chose these turbo's as the goal is to provide instant power delivery and in turn the top end is sacrificed. Larger turbo's would take longer to spool and would make more power up top. For reference compare a stock 335, a tuned 335, 335's with larger turbo's and the new single turbo 335's. The power curve can be improved with good tuning but you can not make a new power curve if the hardware is not capable and in this case these turbo's are not.

When these engines are designed, they are done so with a power curve in mind and the turbo chosen is a product of that design.

As far as differences between the two motors here is a nice spreadsheet from one of other forums.



a/f in stock form and tuned. a/f in tuned form is exactly where you want it to be..

[TahoeM3]

Interesting. I think what you are saying about turbo cars is true for torque, which peaks early in a turbo-engine and then plateaus or drops, but I'm pretty sure every engine makes more power with more revs. The power is a function of the torque and revs....power = (revs x torque)/5252. In a turbo engine or even a naturally aspirated one with a flat torque curve, the power goes up linearly with revs. In a supercharged engine (especially centrifugal), the torque also goes up with revs, so the power curve is not linear, as torque and revs are both increasing. The only time I've ever seen a dyno graph plateau so early was when there was a restriction on air, like a restrictor plate on racing cars. Even racing cars with small turbos will make their peak power at high revs...the turbos may be at their max speed and thus max boost early on, but the revs are going up so power still increases.

If you look at the chart showing the differences in the two engines, and then look at a dyno of both a stock X5M and a tuned 50i, there is very little difference until after 4500 rpm or so, where the 50i runs out of breath. Unless the boost is cut at that point, which I doubt, there is a restriction of air flow into the engine that prevents it from making more power.

[Omar@VelosDesignwerks]

Originally Posted by TahoeM3

Interesting. I think what you are saying about turbo cars is true for torque, which peaks early in a turbo-engine and then plateaus or drops, but I'm pretty sure every engine makes more power with more revs. The power is a function of the torque and revs....power = (revs x torque)/5252. In a turbo engine or even a naturally aspirated one with a flat torque curve, the power goes up linearly with revs. In a supercharged engine (especially centrifugal), the torque also goes up with revs, so the power curve is not linear, as torque and revs are both increasing. The only time I've ever seen a dyno graph plateau so early was when there was a restriction on air, like a restrictor plate on racing cars. Even racing cars with small turbos will make their peak power at high revs...the turbos may be at their max speed and thus max boost early on, but the revs are going up so power still increases.

If you look at the chart showing the differences in the two engines, and then look at a dyno of both a stock X5M and a tuned 50i, there is very little difference until after 4500 rpm or so, where the 50i runs out of breath. Unless the boost is cut at that point, which I doubt, there is a restriction of air flow into the engine that prevents it from making more power.

Tahoe,

Part Highlighted in Red - Let's discuss the car in question which is the X5/6 5.0 and the X5/6 M... These cars DO NOT make peak HP at redline. The dyno chart above shows a bone stock X6 5.0 as well as tuned one. The restriction (if it can be called such a thing) would be the fact that the turbos are done but also the fact that they simply cannot and are not designed to hold that boost level until redline (once again look at the stock run as well, even a 335 or X5M is the same).

In a SC'ed engine the HP goes up with rpm but will run out if the supercharger unit can no longer produce air at x rpm.

Part highlighted in green - This is also wrong, look back at previous paragraph.

Part highlighted in Orange - The boost on ALL BMW turbo cars begins to taper off at a certain RPM, on factory cars and tuned cars...

Part highlighted in Blue - Yes you are right, the turbos are "maxed" out and will not operate efficiently at higher boost levels.

X5M - Larger Turbos and LESS restrictive exhaust manifold (twin scroll).

This is without even getting into the fact that the X5/6 M has lower compression and makes power meaning the turbos are that much larger....

Let me know if we are getting anywhere. Thanks.

[JLed79]

Do you guys have anything available to improve performance of the E70 4.8i?

[Maxx2]

Not that the N54 (3.0L TwinTurbo I6) is the benchmark as far as tuning is concerned, but it is a twin turbo configuration and on that platform tuners were quickly at +80rwhp with just the piggyback! With a basic DCI they are at +90rwhp and it goes up from there with intercoolers, downpipes, meth etc.

With the N63 (4.4L TwinTurbo V8) I find it hard to believe that there is only 40whp left on the table before maxing out the turbos. Something doesn't sound right here...

[Omar@VelosDesignwerks]

Originally Posted by Maxx2

Not that the N54 (3.0L TwinTurbo I6) is the benchmark as far as tuning is concerned, but it is a twin turbo configuration and on that platform tuners were quickly at +80rwhp with just the piggyback! With a basic DCI they are at +90rwhp and it goes up from there with intercoolers, downpipes, meth etc.

With the N63 (4.4L TwinTurbo V8) I find it hard to believe that there is only 40whp left on the table before maxing out the turbos. Something doesn't sound right here...

Ok. Your example sounds great but not sure what the N54 has to do with the N64 4.4L. Why not compare the two different 4.4L's.... X5/6 5.0 and X5/6M. Why did BMW later offer performance packages with the exact same hardware on the 335(is) that was on the regular 335 for a few years. This would throw your theory out the door because BMW simply offered the car with more boost off the showroom floor... BMW could have easily offered the X5/6M with more power from factory but chose not to as well. There is no information provided to the public to explain why how car manufacturers in this case BMW choose how much power they will release a car with to the public (competition,mpg,reliability,etc obviously all play a role). In the case of the 335 they left a good amount of power on the table with the N54 to later offer the same engine in the 1M and 335(is) with more HP and torque.

The same exact thing happens with AMG cars and there performance packages, etc..

The numbers above have been proven and broken down to make it clear, I have also made a generous offer to you in terms of trying the tune out so the ball is in your court. This is something we continue to work on and without going into too much detail at this point we are confident this is the most honest power you can get out of this engine.

edit: Regarding the gains it is 48 rwhp & 60 lb ft of tq on our stage 1.

edit: Heading back to the dyno today for Stage 1.5 a.k.a Maxx Special

Best Regards,

[Maxx2]

Originally Posted by Omar@VelosDesignwerks

Ok. Your example sounds great but not sure what the N54 has to do with the N64 4.4L. Why not compare the two different 4.4L's.... X5/6 5.0 and X5/6M. Why did BMW later offer performance packages with the exact same hardware on the 335(is) that was on the regular 335 for a few years. This would throw your theory out the door because BMW simply offered the car with more boost off the showroom floor... BMW could have easily offered the X5/6M with more power from factory but chose not to as well. There is no information provided to the public to explain why how car manufacturers in this case BMW choose how much power they will release a car with to the public (competition,mpg,reliability,etc obviously all play a role). In the case of the 335 they left a good amount of power on the table with the N54 to later offer the same engine in the 1M and 335(is) with more HP and torque.

The same exact thing happens with AMG cars and there performance packages, etc..

The numbers above have been proven and broken down to make it clear, I have also made a generous offer to you in terms of trying the tune out so the ball is in your court. This is something we continue to work on and without going into too much detail at this point we are confident this is the most honest power you can get out of this engine.

edit: Regarding the gains it is 48 rwhp & 60 lb ft of tq on our stage 1.

edit: Heading back to the dyno today for Stage 1.5 a.k.a Maxx Special

Best Regards,

Omar,

Completely understand what you are saying, however, if the turbos are at their "limit" of airflow with your tune at +58HP then why did BMW release the "M Performance Pkg" which yields +40HP and +30lb-ft from the factory? Would BMW release something that would push the turbos near the absolute limit of airflow? I would like to think that BMW left a very comfortable safety margin in there, which translates to more power available if tuners push the limits.

Not trying to discredit what you have stated, but just trying to understand the N63 a little better!!

[Omar@VelosDesignwerks]

Originally Posted by Maxx2

Omar,

Completely understand what you are saying, however, if the turbos are at their "limit" of airflow with your tune at +58HP then why did BMW release the "M Performance Pkg" which yields +40HP and +30lb-ft from the factory? Would BMW release something that would push the turbos near the absolute limit of airflow? I would like to think that BMW left a very comfortable safety margin in there, which translates to more power available if tuners push the limits.

Not trying to discredit what you have stated, but just trying to understand the N63 a little better!!

Turbos are not necessarily at their limit, of course you can run most boost they would not be running it in their sweet spot. If there was a flow chart that would help a bit to help you understand. As far as the perormance package that is roughly an increase of 25-30 rwhp give or take. BMW or any good tuner will not tune a car to its "limits" like you are implying. Why would you want to max something out? Its not a matter of understanding the N63 better it's understanding that each car is tuned differently from the factory.

Basically it's not like each car is tuned to x% of its potential from factory....

Feel free to call me to discuss I can explain a bit more over the phone.

Best,

[Maxx2]

Originally Posted by Omar@VelosDesignwerks

Turbos are not necessarily at their limit, of course you can run most boost they would not be running it in their sweet spot. If there was a flow chart that would help a bit to help you understand. As far as the perormance package that is roughly an increase of 25-30 rwhp give or take. BMW or any good tuner will not tune a car to its "limits" like you are implying. Why would you want to max something out? Its not a matter of understanding the N63 better it's understanding that each car is tuned differently from the factory.

Basically it's not like each car is tuned to x% of its potential from factory....

Feel free to call me to discuss I can explain a bit more over the phone.

Best,

I have looked at many compressor flow maps and understand them quite well actually... When I refer to "limits," I am referring to a compressor operating outside of its' efficiency range. Obviously, BMW knows these limits quite well and they are nowhere near them. They don't need to explore them because, like you said, the car is tuned with certain "goals" from the factory. What may be important for BMW (drivability, low end torque, fuel economy, etc.) certainly does not apply when someone decides to "Tune" their car for maximum performance. That is why I believe there may be more available if the aftermarket industry wants to push the envelope... The whole reason why people tune their cars is to push things and accept the consequences it may have (Reliability, altered driving characteristics, etc.).

[JLed79]

So nothing for the 4.8i?

[TahoeM3]

Originally Posted by JLed79

So nothing for the 4.8i?

I haven't seen many tuners offer up much for 4.8...usually with a tune they only net a few hp. You'd be better off with an exhaust that might add a few hp and give you better sound in the process, IMO.

[Omar@VelosDesignwerks]

Originally Posted by JLed79

So nothing for the 4.8i?

Sorry about that please shoot me an email for more information.

[Omar@VelosDesignwerks]

Originally Posted by Maxx2

I have looked at many compressor flow maps and understand them quite well actually... When I refer to "limits," I am referring to a compressor operating outside of its' efficiency range. Obviously, BMW knows these limits quite well and they are nowhere near them. They don't need to explore them because, like you said, the car is tuned with certain "goals" from the factory. What may be important for BMW (drivability, low end torque, fuel economy, etc.) certainly does not apply when someone decides to "Tune" their car for maximum performance. That is why I believe there may be more available if the aftermarket industry wants to push the envelope... The whole reason why people tune their cars is to push things and accept the consequences it may have (Reliability, altered driving characteristics, etc.).

I meant a flow map for these turbos.. Not sure how you conclude that the car is "Nowhere close to the limits". I can't really comment on that point.

The idea behind tuning a car is maximizing the car's performance while maintaining the reliability. This is the responsible way to tune a car. While we may be able to squeeze another 1-2 lbs of boost I am positive you will be complaining when you need to purchase new turbos, etc in 8-10 months. I disagree with your statement regarding why people tune their cars and the responsibilities they are willing to take. A responsible tuner will never put a client's car in jeopardy whether it is a ~450 HP M3 or a ~700 HP AMG Bi turbo. Yes Limits are there for a reason but it is a tuners job to determine what is and isn't "safe". I respect your position and appreciate you questions, comments, and participation in this discussion because I think a lot of useful information was shared. We will continue working on this and all our other tunes and offering these upgrades to our clients when they become available.

Best Regards,

[kokovovoru]

Originally Posted by Maxx2

I have looked at many compressor flow maps and understand them quite well actually... When I refer to "limits," I am referring to a compressor operating outside of its' efficiency range. Obviously, BMW knows these limits quite well and they are nowhere near them. They don't need to explore them because, like you said, the car is tuned with certain "goals" from the factory. What may be important for BMW (drivability, low end torque, fuel economy, etc.) certainly does not apply when someone decides to "Tune" their car for maximum performance. That is why I believe there may be more available if the aftermarket industry wants to push the envelope... The whole reason why people tune their cars is to push things and accept the consequences it may have (Reliability, altered driving characteristics, etc.).

Spending 70k for my truck, paying a tuner to explore the so-called hidden potential of my truck, and knowingly understand that I will take full responsibility for adversely affecting or even damaging the reliability of the car would never be my intention It would be irresponsible of me, as well as any reputable aftermarket tuners, to do such a thing. I think the posting tuner is presetting the fellow enthusiasts with an alternative choice of boosting the power of our cars with a reasonable cost, while maintaining that daily drivability and reliability. I can never understand the hearsay about how N54 power can be boosted with a few thousand bucks to be as fast, reliable, and drivable as an M3 or other M cars. See how many cases of premature fuel pump failure are there - whether it's related or not related to the aftermarket performance boost. Same hearsay also goes for Supra's 2JZ engine, STi's boxer engine, and EVo's 4J63 engine - people always say you chip these engines you get 400, 500, 600, or even 1000 power without spending an arm and a leg. It's true FI'ed cars are easier to modify in terms of performance, but the old adage of "you gotta pay to play" still applies on the FI'd cars - bigger intercooler, down pipes, water injection, valve body upgrade, oil cooler, transmission cooler, and other internal upgrades. Otherwise, why X5 M is 15k more than a regular 50i. There are many other things than just the turbo chargers that set the M apart from the rest of the crowd. When it comes to major forced induction, you gotta pay to play. Or pay the hazmat fee when the debris of your pistons leave a trail on the public road.

[Maxx2]

Originally Posted by Omar@VelosDesignwerks

I meant a flow map for these turbos.. Not sure how you conclude that the car is "Nowhere close to the limits". I can't really comment on that point.

The idea behind tuning a car is maximizing the car's performance while maintaining the reliability. This is the responsible way to tune a car. While we may be able to squeeze another 1-2 lbs of boost I am positive you will be complaining when you need to purchase new turbos, etc in 8-10 months. I disagree with your statement regarding why people tune their cars and the responsibilities they are willing to take. A responsible tuner will never put a client's car in jeopardy whether it is a ~450 HP M3 or a ~700 HP AMG Bi turbo. Yes Limits are there for a reason but it is a tuners job to determine what is and isn't "safe". I respect your position and appreciate you questions, comments, and participation in this discussion because I think a lot of useful information was shared. We will continue working on this and all our other tunes and offering these upgrades to our clients when they become available.

Best Regards,

If you do ever come across the compressor maps for these turbos, I would love to see them. That would be very useful information regarding the optimum operating range on how much "safety" BMW has left in there.

I would hope that people who decide to tune a car educate themselves before hand and realize that in an effort to extract more power, they may be increasing their risks and possibly decreasing the longevity of their engine. Obviously no one tunes their car so they can spend every other week at a service center getting repairs done, but to say that there are no risks associated with tuning an engine to run more boost, higher redline, etc, is being naive. Any reputable tuner will have spent countless hours testing things before releasing them to the public, but that does not preclude issues from occurring somewhere down the line and people that purchase these components should understand that. Most tuners have a very well written "Disclaimer" somewhere which addresses this very issue. If however, something is not thoroughly tested or poorly designed and puts a customer's car in "jeopardy," then that is just negligence on the part of the tuner.

Obviously, the goal is to extract the most power out of a car while balancing the risks associated with that. Most tuners will try to explore the limits of each engine before deciding to bring things back down to safe levels.

Originally Posted by kokovovoru

Spending 70k for my truck, paying a tuner to explore the so-called hidden potential of my truck, and knowingly understand that I will take full responsibility for adversely affecting or even damaging the reliability of the car would never be my intention It would be irresponsible of me, as well as any reputable aftermarket tuners, to do such a thing. I think the posting tuner is presetting the fellow enthusiasts with an alternative choice of boosting the power of our cars with a reasonable cost, while maintaining that daily drivability and reliability. I can never understand the hearsay about how N54 power can be boosted with a few thousand bucks to be as fast, reliable, and drivable as an M3 or other M cars. See how many cases of premature fuel pump failure are there - whether it's related or not related to the aftermarket performance boost. Same hearsay also goes for Supra's 2JZ engine, STi's boxer engine, and EVo's 4J63 engine - people always say you chip these engines you get 400, 500, 600, or even 1000 power without spending an arm and a leg. It's true FI'ed cars are easier to modify in terms of performance, but the old adage of "you gotta pay to play" still applies on the FI'd cars - bigger intercooler, down pipes, water injection, valve body upgrade, oil cooler, transmission cooler, and other internal upgrades. Otherwise, why X5 M is 15k more than a regular 50i. There are many other things than just the turbo chargers that set the M apart from the rest of the crowd. When it comes to major forced induction, you gotta pay to play. Or pay the hazmat fee when the debris of your pistons leave a trail on the public road.

If a nice reliable 10HP bump is all you are looking for in a "tune" then by all means... I prefer those that push the limits and discover things which were not supposed to be possible. Yes, you have to pay to play!