Fisker solid-state battery promises 500-mile range, 1-minute charging

[mkoesel]

I don't usually start threads in response to automotive news stories, but given all the debate over EV that has heated up on this forum in the past year (as it has across the internet) this one sounded particularly apropos. This is especially true since range anxiety seems to be one of the bigger barriers to widespread EV adoption.

You might be quick to point out that cost is another big barrier to EV sales, and Fisker's new vehicle, the EMotion, which won't even use this type of battery initially, does nothing to address that issue (it's MSRP will be well over $100k). I agree this is true, however, the costs are likely to come down throughout the 2020s so that, by the end of that decade (if not sooner), tech like this can find its way into the Chevy Bolts and Nissan Leafs of the world.

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...inute-charging

Fisker solid-state battery promises 500-mile range, 1-minute charging

Solid-state batteries represent the holy grail for automakers as they promise a driving range for electric cars comparable to internal combustion models, along with charging times that could match the speed of filling a gas tank.

Revived electric car company Fisker last fall announced it had filed patents for solid-state battery technology that could enable a range of 500 miles and a charging time of just one minute. The company on Tuesday gave us a better look at the technology at the 2018 Consumer Electronics Show, where we were also treated with the first public appearance of Fisker’s EMotion electric sedan due in 2019.

The high range of solid-state batteries is made possible due to the extra energy density compared to the current lithium-ion batteries. Specifically, Fisker’s design is claimed to have 2.5 times the energy density of current battery technology. But solid-state batteries also enable quicker charging. This is due to their three-dimensional electrodes that have 25 times more surface area than flat thin-film electrodes, along with high electronic and ionic conductivities.

Solid-state batteries are already used in some small devices but building them on the scale that automotive production requires isn’t possible yet. The batteries also suffer from low rate capability and poor performance in cold temperatures. However, Fisker’s Vice President of Battery Systems, Fabio Albano, said the company is working to address these issues.

“We are addressing all of the hurdles that solid-state batteries have encountered on the path to commercialization, such as performance in cold temperatures; the use of low cost and scalable manufacturing methods; and the ability to form bulk solid-state electrodes with significant thickness and high active material loadings,” he said.

Fisker doesn’t expect its solid-state batteries to be ready for automotive applications until sometime after 2020. So the company’s EMotion will initially use a lithium-ion battery sourced from LG Chem. The svelte sedan will still offer a generous range of 400 miles, Fisker promises.

Fisker has made a lot of promises in the past. For example, it previously said it would launch cars with graphene batteries. While we remain skeptical, Fisker does have on its development team one of the key people behind Sakti3, the solid-state battery startup sold to vacuum cleaner company Dyson in 2015. Dyson last fall said it was working on an electric car of its own.

Fisker is not alone in its quest to develop automotive-grade solid-state batteries. Other automakers we know of include Toyota, Honda and BMW.

[MightyMouseTech]

Everybody seems to be "on the verge" of releasing an SS battery. I will believe it when I see it in production.

[ShocknAwe]

Fisker "promises" ss battery which will allegedly deliver...

Tired of seeing promises advertised as ability. It's like Hyundai Horsepower.

[Captain Blood]

Its amazing how prices come down so quickly. This time last year, I was wanting to upgrade to LED lights in my house. But $18 per light seemed prohibitive. Now (a year later) I can get 3 of those lights for $9, same price as flourescent. Hopefully the battery issue will play out the same way.

[Bt12]

Solid state = holy grail. Dyson, bmw, etc. only Toyota still trying to push on hydrogen...

[RM7]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

Everybody seems to be "on the verge" of releasing an SS battery. I will believe it when I see it in production.

Listened to some scientists a few weeks ago on NPR that are developing the technology that will get around 4x more energy density than the best Tesla-type products. They say that technology is still a good 15 years away at best. It's coming, maybe not at the rate that some would like you to believe, likely so they can get more money for backing, but one should be ultra-skeptical about delivery, especially with Fisker. I wouldn't believe that one for second. I remember reading the reviews of that car when it was compared with the Tesla and others and it was basically, "WTF? A slow hybrid that gets poor fuel economy? What is the point?". A Tesla is pretty big, but doesn't really take up more space than a normal big car due to missing things, but the Fisker is gigantic and while fairly beautiful in person, it's the kind of "oh, that's nice" rather than anyone ever wanting to own one.

Elon is just crazy enough to pull it off most of the time, but Fisker is just crazy IMO.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Listened to some scientists a few weeks ago on NPR that are developing the technology that will get around 4x more energy density than the best Tesla-type products.

That sounds like something entirely different. Solid-state batteries already exist in commercial uses today. The work being done now by BMW, Toyota, Fisker, and others is to scale them up for use in EVs. It's not a fifteen year timeline.

No doubt there are plenty of empty promises being passed around in the areas of electric and autonomous vehicles. Obviously not everything is going to come to market when its being promoted, not everything is going to be viable in the way its being made out to, and sometimes the impact of technologies is exaggerated and overstated.

As I've noted before, a lot of smart people are working on these things because the market is potentially huge, and that means there is a bunch of money to be made. The nice thing about a free market economy is that if you truly believe you are smarter than that critical mass of people - scientists, investors, politicians, whoever it is you want to compete with - you can put your money where your mouth is and bet against them.

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Listened to some scientists a few weeks ago on NPR that are developing the technology that will get around 4x more energy density than the best Tesla-type products.

They're probably talking about nanowire Li-ION batteries. Still liquid based, but with high density electrodes to potentially increase capacity and life-cycle 5-10 folds. Multiple competing universities and labs have already shown it to be a viable technology, but it is taking Li-ION liquid batteries to the MAX. Most of the technology is already in existence, since it's basically just Li-ION which is quite mature, but adding the nanowire tightly packed to replace the traditional graphite anode is the trick here. The front runner seems to be silicon based nanowire anodes, and some production has already started in factories. The 10-15 year projection is probably the amount of time to see scaled production that would impact the overall economy of Li-ION battery.

Solid state batteries are the next paradigm shift in battery technology, as it has none of the drawbacks of liquid based electrolytes and capacity magnitudes higher/unmatched by liquid based electrolytes. The problem is, again, economy of scale. Solid state batteries cost the same to produce no matter how many you make at the same time, and to make a battery with enough cells to run a car, right now you're looking at 99% of a $100,000 car's cost to produce being invested in the battery for a solid state.

It's far more likely that nanowire Li-ION batteries gain wide acceptance in the next 5-10 years as economy of scale catch up and manufacturing processes mature, then in about 20-25 years for solid state batteries to start trickling in to replace. Again, economy of scale and manufacturing processes to mature. But as nanowire Li-ION batteries mature, you'll start seeing EVs that weigh same or less than today's ICE based vehicles because the same amount of punch in a battery can now be contained in a package 1/5th the size of today's battery. By the time solid state batteries mature you may see power plants the size of today's lead-acid battery drive a car for 500 miles.

But this is all "The Jetsons" type dream scenario. ICE has dominated in the past 100 years not because of superior performance and engineering, but because of matured method to deliver said "fuel" to the end user. Innovations to drive battery technology won't have the same drive (no pun intended) if the infrastructure to deliver electrons isn't there.

[MalibuBimmer]

Consider the source. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisker_Inc.

Henrik Fisker sells stock in the companies he starts, not automobiles. Then the companies fail. A few cars get delivered. Everyone takes a bath. Except Fisker.

Fisker is a conman who used to be a talented designer.

I don't believe a word he says.

The old saying is that extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Fisker's claims require more than that.

[bimmer456]

I need one of these in my cell phone. Hopefully this will address batterygate with 5 second charge times and twice the capacity, is there any info on when or if these batteries wear out over time?

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by MalibuBimmer

Consider the source. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisker_Inc.

In any case, as I say, BMW, Toyota, and others are also working on this, so the tech itself is objectively not snake oil. Whether you believe in Fisker's ability to deliver or not, there is at least some potential here.

Originally Posted by bimmer456

I need one of these in my cell phone. Hopefully this will address batterygate with 5 second charge times and twice the capacity, is there any info on when or if these batteries wear out over time?

All batteries suffer some degree of degraded performance over time. You can find all the information you want on solid state batteries in other applications here:

https://www.google.com/search?q=solid+state+batteries

[GuidoK]

Too bad the charge lead will be too heavy to lift.

[8k4]

Tata motors is working on manure powered vehicles, rumor has it