Reliability - How bad is it?

[E90076]

I understand BMWs are not overly reliable...and I'm fine with that but coming from a 335i, I can't deal with the breakdowns anymore. A couple of warning lights here and there don't bother me but I don't want to have to worry about being stranded on the side of the road anymore. What are the standard issue e70 X5 problems - i.e. fuel pumps, trans failures, etc. Anything?

[chuck92103]

If you are concerned about reliability and have little tolerance for repairs, you should avoid any premium car from any manufacturer.

You will have issues with any BMW you purchase. The question is to what extent. Nobody knows.

My X6 has had some issues. Most of which are common in the X5. I had an Acura that had more issues.

[Vintage]

10,000 miles on my 2010 X35d and the only issue is a stress crack in the front windshield - yep, it just cracked without any road debris causing it; no big deal as the dealer is replacing it under warranty but strange

[pmeloche]

16000kms on my 2007 X5 4.8i. I've had O2 sensors replaced, a failed ignition coil, a burnt brake lamp, and an oil cooler line bursting that resulted in a catastrophic loss of motor oil and slight engine damage. All this over the course of 2.5 years. Everything was replaced/fixed under warranty. I still would not trade my X5 for another car although the new 5 Series is tempting.

Good luck.

[Year1of1]

I've had 3 new BMWs over the past 6 years and i've never had a single issue that caused me to think bmws were not reliable esp from my '10 X5

[Cdnrockies]

Originally Posted by Year1of1

I've had 3 new BMWs over the past 6 years and i've never had a single issue that caused me to think bmws were not reliable esp from my '10 X5

You have been very fortunate then. Congratulations!

However, your experience is the aberration not the norm unfortunately. The statistical data clearly shows that reliability is not BMW's forte. That being said there are trade offs with any brand and you have to decide what is best for your own situation. It seems most people here, myself now included, have been willing to sacrifice some reliability for the driving personality of BMW vehicles.

My father has had a '01 X5, an '03 X5 and now an '09 X6 and I have the '10 X5. Every one of these has had some issues, but none that left us stranded. On his X6 he's already had to have the DVD Nav replaced. My X5 had the amp quit less than 12 hours after delivery and more recently I had a warning light about the AdBlue that came on after only 6K km.

[GuyOh]

my 1993 e36 325i had lot's of problems
my 2004 e46 325i had ZERO problems
my current 2008 e92 335i has had ZERO problems! (knock on wood)

[chuck92103]

Originally Posted by Cdnrockies

You have been very fortunate then. Congratulations!

However, your experience is the aberration not the norm unfortunately. The statistical data clearly shows that reliability is not BMW's forte. That being said there are trade offs with any brand and you have to decide what is best for your own situation. It seems most people here, myself now included, have been willing to sacrifice some reliability for the driving personality of BMW vehicles.

My father has had a '01 X5, an '03 X5 and now an '09 X6 and I have the '10 X5. Every one of these has had some issues, but none that left us stranded. On his X6 he's already had to have the DVD Nav replaced. My X5 had the amp quit less than 12 hours after delivery and more recently I had a warning light about the AdBlue that came on after only 6K km.

Sometimes I wonder if the consumer expects too much. Any premium car with all the gadgets is complicated. The diesel X5/6 engine is fairly new.

As BMW strives to appease customers by delivering cutting edge technology, even during mid model cycles, issues are inevitable. No other car company actually introduces new engines, transmissions, electronics (iDrive) in the middle of a model cycle! Lexus for example comes out with a car and it does not change for 7 years and the next model still uses the same parts as a Toyota built 20 years ago. That is how you get very reliable products. Don't change anything, or minimize changes.


When you look at the most reliable, quality built cars, they are using designs and technology that is 10 years old or more even though sheet metal may change. These cars also lack modern advances. For example, the Lexus LS460 using the same window motors, door switches, and apparently acceleration systems as a camry.

I see BMW as being very reliable considering what you are getting. There is a big difference between reliability and trouble free.

Any product that is constantly changing to add improvements and new features will always be more problematic.

Incidently, I have a 2008 GTI. It is almost three years old now and the only thing done to it is oil changes and the front struts were replaced because they were making a noise. This is one of the lowest rated cars in terms of quality according to JD Power, but has been in the Top 10 best cars in Car and Driver for years. This tells me the gap between the lowest rated cars and the highest is very very narrow.

At the end of the day, if you don't want complicated problems, don't buy complicated products.

[bdardashti]

Originally Posted by chuck92103

Sometimes I wonder if the consumer expects too much. Any premium car with all the gadgets is complicated. The diesel X5/6 engine is fairly new.

As BMW strives to appease customers by delivering cutting edge technology, even during mid model cycles, issues are inevitable. No other car company actually introduces new engines, transmissions, electronics (iDrive) in the middle of a model cycle! Lexus for example comes out with a car and it does not change for 7 years and the next model still uses the same parts as a Toyota built 20 years ago. That is how you get very reliable products. Don't change anything, or minimize changes.


When you look at the most reliable, quality built cars, they are using designs and technology that is 10 years old or more even though sheet metal may change. These cars also lack modern advances. For example, the Lexus LS460 using the same window motors, door switches, and apparently acceleration systems as a camry.

I see BMW as being very reliable considering what you are getting. There is a big difference between reliability and trouble free.

Any product that is constantly changing to add improvements and new features will always be more problematic.

Incidently, I have a 2008 GTI. It is almost three years old now and the only thing done to it is oil changes and the front struts were replaced because they were making a noise. This is one of the lowest rated cars in terms of quality according to JD Power, but has been in the Top 10 best cars in Car and Driver for years. This tells me the gap between the lowest rated cars and the highest is very very narrow.

At the end of the day, if you don't want complicated problems, don't buy complicated products.

+1000. Perfect post. Most of the Japanese companies are using old, but perfected technology, so chances of failure is lower.

[Cdnrockies]

Originally Posted by chuck92103

Sometimes I wonder if the consumer expects too much. Any premium car with all the gadgets is complicated. The diesel X5/6 engine is fairly new.

As BMW strives to appease customers by delivering cutting edge technology, even during mid model cycles, issues are inevitable. No other car company actually introduces new engines, transmissions, electronics (iDrive) in the middle of a model cycle! Lexus for example comes out with a car and it does not change for 7 years and the next model still uses the same parts as a Toyota built 20 years ago. That is how you get very reliable products. Don't change anything, or minimize changes.


When you look at the most reliable, quality built cars, they are using designs and technology that is 10 years old or more even though sheet metal may change. These cars also lack modern advances. For example, the Lexus LS460 using the same window motors, door switches, and apparently acceleration systems as a camry.

I see BMW as being very reliable considering what you are getting. There is a big difference between reliability and trouble free.

Any product that is constantly changing to add improvements and new features will always be more problematic.

Incidently, I have a 2008 GTI. It is almost three years old now and the only thing done to it is oil changes and the front struts were replaced because they were making a noise. This is one of the lowest rated cars in terms of quality according to JD Power, but has been in the Top 10 best cars in Car and Driver for years. This tells me the gap between the lowest rated cars and the highest is very very narrow.

At the end of the day, if you don't want complicated problems, don't buy complicated products.

Originally Posted by bdardashti

+1000. Perfect post. Most of the Japanese companies are using old, but perfected technology, so chances of failure is lower.

So just so we're clear...in your guys opinion...BMW because they are supposedly the cutting edge of anything vehicle related...should be expected to be unreliable and not trouble free as a result???

More of the BMW marketing machine churning away. You are actually pretty close to the truth...as BMW consistently tests everything on the consumer and expects them to deal with the accompanying problems as they figure it out.

Your Lexus comparison is ridiculous. Are you suggesting that there isn't anything shared in other luxury companies from a lowly 3 series to a 7....or C class to S class???

The fact that you are defending that BMW (or MB for that matter) can't figure out ergonomics or how to provide reliable technology is a lame cop out.

[chuck92103]

Originally Posted by Cdnrockies

So just so we're clear...in your guys opinion...BMW because they are supposedly the cutting edge of anything vehicle related...should be expected to be unreliable and not trouble free as a result???

More of the BMW marketing machine churning away. You are actually pretty close to the truth...as BMW consistently tests everything on the consumer and expects them to deal with the accompanying problems as they figure it out.

Your Lexus comparison is ridiculous. Are you suggesting that there isn't anything shared in other luxury companies from a lowly 3 series to a 7....or C class to S class???

The fact that you are defending that BMW (or MB for that matter) can't figure out ergonomics or how to provide reliable technology is a lame cop out.

Not at all. Parts are shared. My point is how often and how many parts are changed on a regular basis.

Case in point, look at the current model Lexus ES350, it came out around 2006. It is the same car for 2010 with very minor costmetic changes.

Now take a 2010 3 series for example. It came out around 2005. Since 2005, the 3 series has received three new engines (328, 335, diesel), new iDrive, new transmissions, HD radio, iPOD integration, smart phone integration, etc.

The same is true for the 5/6/7 series.

Also, BMW has an assembly line where you can custom order cars. You can conceivably have thousands of variations of a 3 series with all the options available. With Lexus, you have a few pre-configured build choices muhch like Honda (i.e. DX, LX, EX).

The Porsche 911 is one of the most reliable cars on the road. Even more so than Lexus. Secret? It is the same car for the past few decades except for minor changes here and there.

My point is when you are constantly changing to the extent BMW does, you do not have the same long history of testing that Lexus does by maintaining the same car configuration.

BMW customers want the latest, Lexus customers are willing to settle for less cutting edge and more reliability.

Also, I am not defending BMW. I am explaining the impact of frequent changes. These changes impact all products from every manaufacturer.

Do you ever wonder why some cell phones are so bad? So much competition coupled with frequent changes.

I am not saying the most complicated and cutting edge products should not be trouble free. We would all love that. I am saying it is unrealistic.

[aussiem3]

People think because it's a BMW it should not break. I am sure even a Ferrari might have a catastrophic failure during the run-in period.

If the car develops a major issue (like engine failure) in the first couple of weeks I will demand a new car. Others are easily fixable.

[aas5]

Guys, I am seriously considering x6 but this whole post is getting pretty ridiculous. There is no rational to not expect problem free performance from luxury cars. I bought my Infiniti M45 the first year it's was out and it's been problem free in 4.5 years (knock on wood). I expected nothing less from a japanese luxury car. M45 did not have a new engine and may be a lot of components were old but technology wise for 2006 it was probably ahead of most other car manufacturers. I am not going to be very upset to find out that my new x6 is using window or seat motors from a 2000 bmw, I could care less as long as they work. I hear people on the engine and that bmw is may be willing to innovate more often and so ok, this may explain why there are occasional problems, but still, i think when you buy a luxury car, you should expect to get a good quality product. I just returned a MB e350 after the lease and it's been trouble free all the time.

[chuck92103]

Originally Posted by aas5

Guys, I am seriously considering x6 but this whole post is getting pretty ridiculous. There is no rational to not expect problem free performance from luxury cars. I bought my Infiniti M45 the first year it's was out and it's been problem free in 4.5 years (knock on wood). I expected nothing less from a japanese luxury car. M45 did not have a new engine and may be a lot of components were old but technology wise for 2006 it was probably ahead of most other car manufacturers. I am not going to be very upset to find out that my new x6 is using window or seat motors from a 2000 bmw, I could care less as long as they work. I hear people on the engine and that bmw is may be willing to innovate more often and so ok, this may explain why there are occasional problems, but still, i think when you buy a luxury car, you should expect to get a good quality product. I just returned a MB e350 after the lease and it's been trouble free all the time.

I think anyone can get a good or bad vehicle from any manufacturer. They all have been subject to lemon law complaints.

So when folks ask about reliability on a car forum visited mostly by folks with issues seeking answers, it is no surprise that it seems like BMW's are problematic. I can point you to Lexus, Nissan Acura forums littered with complaints as well.

Some customers will have better experiences than others. However, some car will have issues but not all cars.

[Cdnrockies]

Originally Posted by aas5

Guys, I am seriously considering x6 but this whole post is getting pretty ridiculous. There is no rational to not expect problem free performance from luxury cars. I bought my Infiniti M45 the first year it's was out and it's been problem free in 4.5 years (knock on wood). I expected nothing less from a japanese luxury car. M45 did not have a new engine and may be a lot of components were old but technology wise for 2006 it was probably ahead of most other car manufacturers. I am not going to be very upset to find out that my new x6 is using window or seat motors from a 2000 bmw, I could care less as long as they work. I hear people on the engine and that bmw is may be willing to innovate more often and so ok, this may explain why there are occasional problems, but still, i think when you buy a luxury car, you should expect to get a good quality product. I just returned a MB e350 after the lease and it's been trouble free all the time.

I agree that you should not have to lower expectations with a German vehicle where reliability is concerned. I will comment that my personal experience with MB has been the polar opposite of yours. Our '09 ML has been a complete pita to this point and the dealer has been less than expected.

As far as the X6 goes, my father has an '09 that he picked up last summer. It has had a couple of minor electrical issues and needed to have the navigation dvd drive replaced last month. It is an amazing drive, though if you have a need for storage space the X6 is not a good pick.

Originally Posted by chuck92103

I think anyone can get a good or bad vehicle from any manufacturer. They all have been subject to lemon law complaints.

So when folks ask about reliability on a car forum visited mostly by folks with issues seeking answers, it is no surprise that it seems like BMW's are problematic. I can point you to Lexus, Nissan Acura forums littered with complaints as well.

Some customers will have better experiences than others. However, some car will have issues but not all cars.

While that may be true...all you have to do is some light homework to see that BMW's are not as reliable as other makes. JD Power or Consumer Reports, etc. sample enough of the population to show actual trends and not just anectodal evidence from the handful of folks that discuss here.

When people say that BMW's are less reliable....guess what?....they are right, regardless of how many people here anecdotally state that their experience has been different.

[JLausch]

The only issue i've had with the x5 35d was the reduced power limp mode thing (required DME replacement), it just did it again the other day lol. The first time it happened at 65 miles and i ignored it until it did it at 4500 miles, then i had the dme replaced, now it did it again at 9000 miles. It just flashes a warning, it never let me sit or anything overly frustrating. Just had to restart it the one time to reset it. my 335i has had the wastegate actuators supposedly replaced because of the rattle, which is still there lol, but otherwise no problems. Ive never had a serious issue with one of my bimmers.

[BrunoT]

Have had 3 bmws.

'97 540i - first model year of car. Numerous nagging electrical and plastic part issues. Car failed to start once in drive but was towed and was fine afterwards. Wheels were bbs add-ons and had balance issues, but not bmw's fault. cats went bad but thankfully had a 100k warranty ($1200 repair) Extremely annoying car to own as shop was a 45 min drive each way, which means following it to shop to get wife home, then driving her down to pick it up. In shop about every other month for something.

'98 540i. Tried again with a better specimen. Mostly trouble free but only had it for 1.5 years. Sold due to long commute in traffic and stiff clutch spring and balky 6 speed manual that year plus bad knees.

'06 325i. Trouble free for 4 years.

Also owned Saab ( falls apart after 50K) and Infiniti (zero problems at 40K)

Great cars to own if you don't pile on miles. We unfortunately did.

Here now because we're looking at going to a prev gen x5 and we only put minimal miles on our car now. Much easier to own/maintain when you don't pile on the miles, as failures are a function of miles driven.

Exotic options and features probably = more problems due to complexity. I'd definitely buy a no-frills version if they ever sold one (no sunroof, minimal electronics, etc) as that stuff doesn't interest me anyway.

[AlexGP]

BMW 318is (1991-1994), BMW M3 (1994-1999) BMW X5 (2001-present).
I believe I can add pesrpective:
a) Reliability highly depends on how you drive and how you maintain your car. You can clearly see that I went from a lower-end engine and model, to a racing one, to a winter-friendly one, and had my driving MO been the same with the three models, I certainly would have had all sorts of issues (not to say I might not be alive). It so happens that I treat my cars as jewels and, thus, I can say that these three cars have had, at worst, very minor problems, mostly related to normal wear and tear. Note that I had had two VW prior...
b) Current models of all cars have a much higher degree of electronics than even my 2001 X5. This intrinsically means more possibility (and probability) of failures.
c) Regardless of model/brand, I would avoid buying a first-generation engine, even a first-generation car, if you are so concerned. Clearly, I did not follow my preaching in any of my 3 BMWs...

[Cdnrockies]

Originally Posted by brucec32

Here now because we're looking at going to a prev gen x5 and we only put minimal miles on our car now. Much easier to own/maintain when you don't pile on the miles, as failures are a function of miles driven.

Not necessarily.

My 2010 X5 35d was on it's way back to the shop with under 200km and less than 4 hours of driving time on it for a faulty amp.

[BrunoT]

Originally Posted by chuck92103

If you are concerned about reliability and have little tolerance for repairs, you should avoid any premium car from any manufacturer.

You will have issues with any BMW you purchase. The question is to what extent. Nobody knows.

My X6 has had some issues. Most of which are common in the X5. I had an Acura that had more issues.

I think you're overstating it somewhat. The Infiniti M35/45 for example has a stellar record. Several Lexus models also rarely break down. Or are Japanese brands not considered "premium" here?

Most first time buyers of luxury cars are shocked at the maint/repair costs. But what kills them worse is depreciation from new. It's "the silent killer".

[archwerks]

From what I can gather from these comments, it seems BMW parts must come from factories in 3rd world countries... that is a good thing.

[Bimar]

Interesting post, have decided to go for a used E70 X5 given the wait on the new X3 is almost 1 year. Electrical issues will always be a forte of any luxury car...having said that you cannot compare reliability of an X5 to for example a Range Rover which is utterly ludicrous!