Differences M and Non M

[JoeyBimX5din]

So I don't want opinions, and I don't care about the motors, but I would like to know the difference between an E70 X5 M and an E70 X5 xdrive50i.

I know the upper control arms in the front are different
as are the springs
as are the shocks
and if I had to guess, I would guess both front and rear bars are different

I am asking because as I upgrade my suspension, I may want to sprinkle some M bits into my suspension, I think the upgrade may be worth it, it may not though.

I do see the front axle support is a different part number m to non-m

Again I say, please REFRAIN from your impressions you get driving one or the other, I already own a 50i, I am not changing. I want to know what may be an intelligent upgrade for the 50i to m parts. As in, I change the upper control arms to the M arms, and the truck gains a little, and so on and so forth.

So anyone in the know, please chime in.

thank you.

[Thecastle]

I think you should consider what your goal is, better ride, less body roll, more feedback etc. I've modded the suspension on my e90 and replaced it on my x5 4.8i myself. Yes, it was a lot of work more than you would think. My best suggestion is there are a lot of little tweaks like adding poly subframe mounts that will get you 90-95% of the M suspension performance for a significant discount.

You didn't mention what you stock setup was. I'll also mention if your car has more than 50-80K miles your suspension is shot and you'll get a huge upgrade by just replacing the worn out stock bushings on these cars. In particular the front lower control arms, sub-frame mounts, tire rods and sway bar end links are all tired.


All M's come with adaptive drive, self leveling suspension and electronic damper control as well, this may not be on your 50i (its optional) and makes a big difference. The stock rims are 20" which makes a difference in ride and handling. The X5M has bigger heavier brakes which along with the rims changes the unsprung weight.

If you don't have adaptive drive and EDC, those upgrades alone will be $1000's and make a huge difference in body roll and ride.

realoem will show the bushing differences. I'd not only expect all the suspension bushings to be tweaked but the subframe as well. Also the X5M has a trick rear diff that changes handling substantially.

I've had both a 48i and replaced most of the suspension myself now an X5M.

[JoeyBimX5din]

I have the least optioned suspension you can get on a 50i. I do not have adaptive drive, or EDC. Can those systems be retrofitted?

I have been under the truck on a lift, and I think I disagree with all the bushings being worn in the 50-80k range. I pulled the BMW service history on my truck, and a complete suspension replacement did not happen, so the stuff under my truck is 92k young. Poking around under there, I have not come across anything worn to the point of justifying replacement. I think that poly bushings help even over perfect stock OEM

I am merely hunting for the hard M parts can be retrofitted on non-m for some suspension gains. I think some of the M parts may not work, as I assume complete sub frames may be different, and retrofit may require way to much work.

My goals with the suspension are unknown as of yet. I am quite happy with the truck for its daily duties. From the opinions of folks here, I do know there is improvement to be made with aftermarket upgrades though, as quite a few people change things out

[jandref321]

I just did a quick run through realoem for 2011 50i vs 2011 X5m, mainly part numbers.

Front Axle:
Same:
Lower control arm
Lower Strut mount
Reinforcement Plate

Different:
Upper Control Arm
Tension Arm
Strut very different (even from non M adaptive)
Frame part number
Actual Body support number (where the strut bolts up)

Rear Axle:
Same:
Rear Control Arm
Front Control Arm
Swing Arm
Hub Carrier
Body Support number (Where the damper bolts up)

Different:
Damper Very different (Even from nonM adaptive)
Frame part number
Spring part number

From looking at aftermarket parts I know that the springs are interchangeable in the rear. The rear body support is also the same and almost all the components so you should be able to swap that no problem. The Front, however, has a different upper strut mounting location part number so may have a different bolt pattern. The lower control arms are the same and so are the lower strut mounts so very high likely hood that the front struts are interchangeable.

The big "handling" differences about the M are supposed to be the torque vectoring rear diff and the steering rack. I saw a diff on ebay for $1500 but I image that it would be difficult to retrofit.

[denaliman]

Check the X5M registry for explanation of differences. Just google it.

[Flying Ace]

Your X5 won't turn like the M until you put the M LSD in. $2k later, you won't still have a M.

If you're serious about retrofit, you'll spend less money on net just buying a X5M

[jandref321]

I still understand wanting to upgrade a truck with performance BMW parts, but at the cost I'd go with aftermarket. Some coilovers will likely make a non adaptive suspension better than the M adaptive anyway. D2, ceika, and of course KW make the kits (I'm about to install the cheaper, ceika, tomorrow). Look up kmac for adjustable bushings and use power flex red for the others. There aren't good LSD options for the rear diff so no point unless you retrofit the torque vectoring one. I think the coilovers and bushings by themselves will take you where you want to go...I love BMW but OE doesn't always equal best or even "goodest" quality, especially at the price point.

[JoeyBimX5din]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

Your X5 won't turn like the M until you put the M LSD in. $2k later, you won't still have a M.

If you're serious about retrofit, you'll spend less money on net just buying a X5M

I'm not worried about matching an M. The extra perfromance is not worth the 20,000 to me. If I am spending $35,000 for a ride, I am buying a brand new Dodge 2500.

I would just like to know what kind of realistic retrofit would benefit the non-M. The torque vectoring differential for example, the juice would not be worth the squeeze. If you use that standard for what can be interchanged, that is the research I am going for.

[JoeyBimX5din]

Originally Posted by denaliman

Check the X5M registry for explanation of differences. Just google it.

I did google a few phrases trying to see if someone had approached this topic before, I came up empty. Do you have a link to the specific thread you speak of? I am not finding it.

[JoeyBimX5din]

Originally Posted by jandref321

I still understand wanting to upgrade a truck with performance BMW parts, but at the cost I'd go with aftermarket. Some coilovers will likely make a non adaptive suspension better than the M adaptive anyway. D2, ceika, and of course KW make the kits (I'm about to install the cheaper, ceika, tomorrow). Look up kmac for adjustable bushings and use power flex red for the others. There aren't good LSD options for the rear diff so no point unless you retrofit the torque vectoring one. I think the coilovers and bushings by themselves will take you where you want to go...I love BMW but OE doesn't always equal best or even "goodest" quality, especially at the price point.

I am not sure the direction I want to take my X. It is my DD. I know I want to lower it a little, I know I want a few bolt on engine mods, I know I want summer 20s or bigger. After that its a bit open. So I am just researching, seeing what may or may not be feasible.

[denaliman]

Originally Posted by JoeyBimX5din

I did google a few phrases trying to see if someone had approached this topic before, I came up empty. Do you have a link to the specific thread you speak of? I am not finding it.

http://www.bmwmregistry.com/model_faq.php?id=64

[JoeyBimX5din]

Originally Posted by denaliman

http://www.bmwmregistry.com/model_faq.php?id=64

thank you, I believe that is what I am looking for.

[JoeyBimX5din]

How does the suspension of the E70 X5 M differ from that of other E70 X5 models?
Like all E70 X5s, the X5 M utilizes a MacPherson strut/multi-link suspension design. Electronic Damping Control (EDC), Active Roll Stabilization (ARS) and self-leveling rear air springs, optional features on other X5 models, are included as standard equipment. In addition, the suspension has been substantially modified by BMW M GmbH with the following changes:
—Front suspension with reinforced upper control arms, more rigid transverse lower trailing links and firmer hydraulic cushions
—Revised rear air springs and rear strut mounts
—Specific EDC shock calibration
—More rigid rubber mounts between the suspension and body

[KCLARK]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

Your X5 won't turn like the M until you put the M LSD in. $2k later, you won't still have a M.

If you're serious about retrofit, you'll spend less money on net just buying a X5M

This to me is the more expensive route because an M has way more than what he's looking for. I do think the suspension miss is due to flat out getting the wrong package because he's not satisfied with the current suspension. A quicker, easier fix could be done by trading in his current X5 on a properly spec'd X5 with the M-sport package. This would include a much better suspension system along with the adaptive drive and have EDC and eliminate all the headaches and time that goes with retrofitting a whole new suspension system.

I've learned my lesson on doing this and been down that M-parts/suspension upgrade road before twice, with a 3 series and 5 series. That was a tedious task trying to get all the parts right and looking back, it just wasn't worth the headache. If fact, that is when I learned about the different packages BMW offers, and it seems that some buyers aren't familiar with what package gives you what and ends up having a BMW that has no soul. Now I when im looking to buy a BMW, the package list the car comes with is the first thing I look at (key words: M sport package)!

[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by KCLARK

This to me is the more expensive route because an M has way more than what he's looking for. I do think the suspension miss is due to flat out getting the wrong package because he's not satisfied with the current suspension. A quicker, easier fix could be done by trading in his current X5 on a properly spec'd X5 with the M-sport package. This would include a much better suspension system along with the adaptive drive and have EDC and eliminate all the headaches and time that goes with retrofitting a whole new suspension system.

I've learned my lesson on doing this and been down that M-parts/suspension upgrade road before twice, with a 3 series and 5 series. That was a tedious task trying to get all the parts right and looking back, it just wasn't worth the headache. If fact, that is when I learned about the different packages BMW offers, and it seems that some buyers aren't familiar with what package gives you what and ends up having a BMW that has no soul. Now I when im looking to buy a BMW, the package list the car comes with is the first thing I look at (key words: M sport package)!

I get your point. But for most BMW's M Sport Packages does not have the full M suspension.

Ultimately, it comes down to what the owner wants in the feel of the car. If you're tracking a car, the M suspension is not sufficient depending on the use of the car.

BTW, with the newer M3 and M5/6 models, the M suspensions are tweaked again with "competition packages" options ! lol, so you can almost never retrofit it to the best spec BMW has available for sale.

[jandref321]

OP, I'd install coilovers...these will drastically improve your handling and ride. I just installed ceika in my wife's X5 3.0si and way better in The turns. I'm still working out some bounciness but I think it's because I requested "stock/comfort" ride. Their tech team is kind of a PITA since they have odd hours; company is based in Hong Kong, run in Europe, and manufacturing is in Taiwan. I went ceika because I wanted to lift the truck a bit and they do custom kits and only $1050. Otherwise I'd go D2 since they are only $1300 and a respected company. KWs you can find for $2600, but they are also 3 way while CEIKA and D2 are only two way.

BTW, the stock rear springs for non air ride are very difficult to remove. I'll post about the DIY in a few days.

[JoeyBimX5din]

Originally Posted by KCLARK

This to me is the more expensive route because an M has way more than what he's looking for. I do think the suspension miss is due to flat out getting the wrong package because he's not satisfied with the current suspension. A quicker, easier fix could be done by trading in his current X5 on a properly spec'd X5 with the M-sport package. This would include a much better suspension system along with the adaptive drive and have EDC and eliminate all the headaches and time that goes with retrofitting a whole new suspension system.

I've learned my lesson on doing this and been down that M-parts/suspension upgrade road before twice, with a 3 series and 5 series. That was a tedious task trying to get all the parts right and looking back, it just wasn't worth the headache. If fact, that is when I learned about the different packages BMW offers, and it seems that some buyers aren't familiar with what package gives you what and ends up having a BMW that has no soul. Now I when im looking to buy a BMW, the package list the car comes with is the first thing I look at (key words: M sport package)!

I may have come off confusing, but no, not exactly.

I am quite happy with my OEM non M suspension. I don't want an M-sport, because I like having the 18s as an option, have you price out 18" tires vs the 22 or 20" stuff? Cheaper. The adaptive drive doesn't fancy me either, adding a motor to the sway bars and air ride to the rear seems like to much moving parts. I am merely looking for reasonable to install hard parts (control arms, thicker non electronic sway bars, springs, shocks) to hang on my truck that may improve its already respectable handling prowess.

No I do not want an M-Sport. I thought above I did mention I did not want to sell my truck for a different one. Maybe I didn't. So here I go.

I do not, under any circumstance, want to sell this truck I own, and purchase another X5, currently

[JoeyBimX5din]

Originally Posted by jandref321

OP, I'd install coilovers...these will drastically improve your handling and ride. I just installed ceika in my wife's X5 3.0si and way better in The turns. I'm still working out some bounciness but I think it's because I requested "stock/comfort" ride. Their tech team is kind of a PITA since they have odd hours; company is based in Hong Kong, run in Europe, and manufacturing is in Taiwan. I went ceika because I wanted to lift the truck a bit and they do custom kits and only $1050. Otherwise I'd go D2 since they are only $1300 and a respected company. KWs you can find for $2600, but they are also 3 way while CEIKA and D2 are only two way.

BTW, the stock rear springs for non air ride are very difficult to remove. I'll post about the DIY in a few days.

I am not a big fan of coil overs. They usually require hundreds of dollars of labor to a true race shop to be set correctly. Plus IMO they do not offer any quality gains to be had vs a lowering spring and an aftermarket (or maybe M-base) strut. The only advantage would be adjustability, and I am not worried about that.

[m5james]

Have you taken a performance driving school? Far cheaper, some you take your own vehicle and you'll learn tons.

[Huz-Z]

I'd expect maintenance and fuel costs to be higher on an M when compared to a non-M.

[JoeyBimX5din]

Originally Posted by Huz-Z

I'd expect maintenance and fuel costs to be higher on an M when compared to a non-M.

I think you are wrong.

The difference motor wise is internal. I believe its the same oil change.

It might even be cheaper then a xDrive50i, since the 50i's have the ZF8, it may take more fluid or cost more to maintain then the ZF6.

I just don't know for sure, but I assume it is most likely negligible differences.

[JoeyBimX5din]

Originally Posted by m5james

Have you taken a performance driving school? Far cheaper, some you take your own vehicle and you'll learn tons.

they will not allow X's.

I am not sweating all this. I do have a car to, if I feel the need to get involved with this kind of stuff. It just the car is a year or more away from being prepped and ready to go.