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      06-30-2014, 05:09 PM   #1
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Weight of F80 M3 / F82 M4 Lithium Battery

Had a chance to pull the Lithium battery from a F82 M4 over the weekend, quite a bit of weight was shaved off the previous AGM version:

Part: 61.21.9.312.759
Price: Not yet listed in system
Specs: 12V 69Ah 770A/860CCA

Lithium


Original


30lbs shed just from the battery alone.

System uses a different IBS connector and vent tube than the E9X M3, doubt a swap would be suitable for previous M3 models. However, the footprint is the same, keeping AGM/Lead Acid batteries an open possibility for budget-conscious as lithium type batteries can be $$.
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      06-30-2014, 05:16 PM   #2
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I just read an article about the batteries. Claimed they are $1100 plus change. I'll have to find it again.


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      06-30-2014, 05:21 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ersin View Post
I just read an article about the batteries. Claimed they are $1100 plus change. I'll have to find it again.

Cheers.
$1100 would be cheap compared to others on the market. Porsche wants ~$1700 for theirs:

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      06-30-2014, 05:22 PM   #4
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Will the Lithium battery have a longer life than a traditional lead battery? At $1100/pop, that's a hunk of change just to replace the battery.
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      06-30-2014, 05:33 PM   #5
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Thanks for the update Tom.
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      06-30-2014, 05:46 PM   #6
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      06-30-2014, 05:58 PM   #7
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I missed you today. Where's your grill install photos man?


Tom,

Thanks for that data point. Hell, you save more from a battery swap than you do opting for CCB's.
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      06-30-2014, 06:07 PM   #8
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Thanks for that data point. Hell, you save more from a battery swap than you do opting for CCB's.
Most definitely if you're comparing static mass. Rotating may be a different story.
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      06-30-2014, 06:10 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Thanks for that data point. Hell, you save more from a battery swap than you do opting for CCB's.
Most definitely if you're comparing static mass. Rotating may be a different story.
Indeed!
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      06-30-2014, 06:17 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
I missed you today. Where's your grill install photos man?


Tom,

Thanks for that data point. Hell, you save more from a battery swap than you do opting for CCB's.
I waited till 1015 for you! lol then I had to get on the road, wanted to beat the traffic. But yea got everything installed from EAS and it turned out very nice. Looks so good IMO I am very happy. Just need to get the car lowered it looks like a xM4
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      06-30-2014, 06:18 PM   #11
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I waited till 1015 for you! lol then I had to get on the road, wanted to beat the traffic. But yea got everything installed from EAS and it turned out very nice. Looks so good IMO I am very happy. Just need to get the car lowered it looks like a xM4
Now I have a reason to roll up to your area.
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      06-30-2014, 06:21 PM   #12
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^^No doubt! Solvang is always a good time and a great get away if you guys are ever looking for something to do.
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      06-30-2014, 08:34 PM   #13
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$1,100 a pop is insane!! I do like they have saved 30lbs though.
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      06-30-2014, 09:28 PM   #14
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That price will come down in 4 years. And there's other batteries that will be suitable, nearly 30 pounds in total weight, and only a few hundred dollars at a pop.

For $1100, you could go with a much lighter weight battery if you wanted.

My only question, due to lack of understanding on my part, is whether the electronics would require the LI-ION battery for any reason.
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      06-30-2014, 09:38 PM   #15
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Can you jump start with a regular battery?
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      06-30-2014, 09:39 PM   #16
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Can you jump start with a regular battery?
Good question. I wouldn't see why not.
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      06-30-2014, 10:11 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
I wouldn't see why not.
They said something like, when the battery sees greater than 14 volts it goes into "save the battery mode" and kind of shuts itself down, or something. So, maybe this is why not.

However, there is a section in the manual about jump starting. Preparation is:
1) Check battery of vehicle offering the jump to make sure it is 12 V.
2) Switch engine off of vehicle offering the jump.
3) Switch off electronic consumers in the offering vehicle.

I guess as long as it is not over 14 Volts then all is fine.


Cheers.
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      07-01-2014, 06:59 AM   #18
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Jumping a car from another car is very safe (provided you connect the terminals safely). The more....risky....stuff is jumping from a portable starter. Those can have voltages/amps all over the place.
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      07-01-2014, 09:24 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ersin View Post
They said something like, when the battery sees greater than 14 volts it goes into "save the battery mode" and kind of shuts itself down, or something. So, maybe this is why not.

However, there is a section in the manual about jump starting. Preparation is:
1) Check battery of vehicle offering the jump to make sure it is 12 V.
2) Switch engine off of vehicle offering the jump.
3) Switch off electronic consumers in the offering vehicle.

I guess as long as it is not over 14 Volts then all is fine.


Cheers.
So none of the "leave the engine on for the car that is giving the jump" business. I'm thinking that is solely due to voltage. It's been awhile but I believe the alternators usually put out around 14V while the batteries are around 12V. Makes sense if these new batteries don't like more than 12V.

(My EE bachelor's is getting rusty so forgive my 'old' knowledge as I don't even use it for my current job...)
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      07-01-2014, 11:45 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdizzle View Post
So none of the "leave the engine on for the car that is giving the jump" business. I'm thinking that is solely due to voltage. It's been awhile but I believe the alternators usually put out around 14V while the batteries are around 12V. Makes sense if these new batteries don't like more than 12V.

(My EE bachelor's is getting rusty so forgive my 'old' knowledge as I don't even use it for my current job...)
That's correct. Lead acids like to be charged at 14V and will settle at around 12.6V for a fully charged battery. The problem here is that applying a charge at under 13V isn't effective and will result in little to no charging.

I'm hoping that the car can detect the presence of a lead acid battery automatically or be instructed via coding. I don't see the $1100 price tag dropping very soon; this is a niche battery that won't see mainstream adoption. When a standard H6 lead acid replacement battery is $90, I don't see myself personally getting $1000+ worth of value from saving 30 lbs with the Li-ion unit.
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      07-02-2014, 09:12 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcoril View Post
That's correct. Lead acids like to be charged at 14V and will settle at around 12.6V for a fully charged battery. The problem here is that applying a charge at under 13V isn't effective and will result in little to no charging.

I'm hoping that the car can detect the presence of a lead acid battery automatically or be instructed via coding. I don't see the $1100 price tag dropping very soon; this is a niche battery that won't see mainstream adoption. When a standard H6 lead acid replacement battery is $90, I don't see myself personally getting $1000+ worth of value from saving 30 lbs with the Li-ion unit.
That is a bit on the ridiculous side of pricing as you point out. One could buy some pretty decent weight saving carbon fiber parts for over $1k in comparison.

I do see the price coming down but probably now south of $500 anytime soon. I wonder if it provides any other benefit than weight, I'd hope it would last longer, but I suspect that isnt the case.

Just thinking how mobile electronics are moving to that type of battery so it would lead me to hope that since it's not cutting edge technology the price should come down to more reasonable levels once there are enough applications. If this is the only one for awhile there really is no reason for the manufacturers (which will be limited) to lower the price. Cue supply/demand mantra.
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      07-02-2014, 09:21 AM   #22
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People: You can buy a 30-40 pound lead acid battery with a great CCA rating and reserve power for less than $200. It may not have the lifespan or reserve capacity or super-cold starting ability of this LI-ION battery, but that's a choice you can make.

You don't NEED to buy a $1100 LI-ION battery to get a 30 pound battery capable of starting the car (unless BMW deliberately engineered it that way). Heck, there are really really really lightweight batteries that will operate the M3 and will be great for racing applications (i.e. 11 pound batteries).

I'd like to understand the expected lifespan of this battery though.
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