Let's talk about calling an X5 a "truck"

[chiplee]

Originally Posted by JLed79

Well said Chiplee. And while your Toy is sick and looks like it can climb a tree, I'd still call it an suv lol.

Oh I completely agree. Outside of my home, I tend to just call it a 4Runner.

[14bmws]

I miss my car... my '08 M3 sedan. With the X5 I gave up all the things that made my M car so special and I didn't gain any of the utility that makes a truck so convenient and nice to have.

I couldn't wait to get my X5 and it is the only one of my 14 BMWs that I simply don't love.

[doug_999]

You guys have not been to the PDC and seen what the X5/X6 can really do. I assure you, a car can't do what they put the X5 through there

[chiplee]

Originally Posted by doug_999

You guys have not been to the PDC and seen what the X5/X6 can really do. I assure you, a car can't do what they put the X5 through there

A backhoe can do a lot of things a car can't do as well. That doesn't make it a truck.

[14bmws]

If it cant carry a cord of firewood it isnt a truck, lol. Hell, I had to buy a Thule so I could carry the kids snow boards. My 4 door Tundra with the power bedlocker was the ultimate go skiing vehicle.

[CarFan]

Originally Posted by chiplee

Lol, of course huh? I mean I obviously don't care what anyone chooses to regard their X5 as, but the reality is that words mean things. I think JLed79 hit the nail on the head. The X5 falls squarely in the SUV category, but three syllable names are more cumbersome than one syllable names, so people don't tend to say things like, "I think I'll take the S-U-V to work today". Judging by the replies, given the two basic "easy to say" choices of truck and car, some of us are uncomfortable calling it a car, while others of us are uncomfortable calling it a truck. I think we all have our own reasons, but a side with the folks who think its downright silly to call an X5 a truck, or to draw a distinction between the X5 and the X3 for the purpose of this conversation. Same rules apply. Words mean things. If you can find a definition of a truck or pickup truck that includes a picture of any SUV, I'll reconsider.

Okay how's this from the Department of Transportation: Most sport utility vehicles, mini-vans, and pickups are classified as “light trucks” and thus are regulated less stringently than passenger cars under two major laws—the Energy Policy and Conservation Act for fuel economy standards, and the Clean Air Act
for emissions standards.

[doug_999]

This thread is interesting.
On one hand you have people who have had real trucks (RAM/150/etc) who move to the X5/X6 and say "This is no truck cause it drives like a car"
and on the other hand you have people who have had real cars who move to the X5/X6 and say "This thing is a truck"

An interesting debate and I can see where both sides are coming from.

[chiplee]

Originally Posted by CarFan

Okay how's this from the Department of Transportation: Most sport utility vehicles, mini-vans, and pickups are classified as “light trucks” and thus are regulated less stringently than passenger cars under two major laws—the Energy Policy and Conservation Act for fuel economy standards, and the Clean Air Act
for emissions standards.

Nope. Not for me anyway, especially not if it means I have to start counting mini-vans as "trucks". The document you referenced does state that "light truck" is how most SUV's are classified, but it says that's how they're classified "for the purposes of fuel economy standards". Specifically, it states, "For the purposes of fuel economy standards, DOT defines a light truck as any truck or “truck derivative” with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 8,500 pounds or less, and a vehicle curb weight (VCW) of 6,000 pounds or less." This is clearly an organization that set out to simplify its vehicle classification system.

The document you referenced actually raises an interesting argument against calling an X5 a truck when it states, "SUVs and mini-vans are usually built on truck chassis". This is TRUE of my 4Runner, and FALSE about the X5. As I stated in my initial post, my 4Runner is built using body on frame construction that is identical to the Tacoma pickup truck, though I still admit it's technically incorrect to call a 4Runner a truck.

To be clear though, the primary reason I won't accept that definition is that it is a definition used for the purpose of deriving fuel economy standards, and is therefore not a "universal" definition like you would find in a dictionary or in common usage. The same document goes on to say that part of the reason they classify minivans as trucks is because they usually have 4WD. Really?

[CarFan]

Originally Posted by chiplee

Nope. Not for me anyway, especially not if it means I have to start counting mini-vans as "trucks". The document you referenced does state that "light truck" is how most SUV's are classified, but it says that's how they're classified "for the purposes of fuel economy standards". Specifically, it states, "For the purposes of fuel economy standards, DOT defines a light truck as any truck or “truck derivative” with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 8,500 pounds or less, and a vehicle curb weight (VCW) of 6,000 pounds or less." This is clearly an organization that set out to simplify its vehicle classification system.

The document you referenced actually raises an interesting argument against calling an X5 a truck when it states, "SUVs and mini-vans are usually built on truck chassis". This is TRUE of my 4Runner, and FALSE about the X5. As I stated in my initial post, my 4Runner is built using body on frame construction that is identical to the Tacoma pickup truck, though I still admit it's technically incorrect to call a 4Runner a truck.

To be clear though, the primary reason I won't accept that definition is that it is a definition used for the purpose of deriving fuel economy standards, and is therefore not a "universal" definition like you would find in a dictionary or in common usage. The same document goes on to say that part of the reason they classify minivans as trucks is because they usually have 4WD. Really?

I guess words don't actually mean things.....

[ATX78703]

Originally Posted by doug_999

This thread is interesting.
On one hand you have people who have had real trucks (RAM/150/etc) who move to the X5/X6 and say "This is no truck cause it drives like a car"
and on the other hand you have people who have had real cars who move to the X5/X6 and say "This thing is a truck"

An interesting debate and I can see where both sides are coming from.

It's a cross-over SUV. Not a truck. It is very rarely doing any kind of 'truck-like' activities. Towing capacity is low, off road abilities are limited. IMO, the popularity of of this segment is related to ppl not wanting to drive wagons or minivans. There is a cool factor related to SUVs.

Ppl who really off road drive body on frame SUVs like the 4runner.

[chiplee]

Originally Posted by CarFan

I guess words don't actually mean things.....

I don't follow. You referenced a "definition" of the word truck that is heavily context dependent without providing the context. I provided that context to reveal that what is a "truck" to the DOT for the purposes of fuel consumption comparability should not be considered a "truck" by any and all other standards. I think it's pretty obvious and I think the integrity of the "meaning" of words is fully intact.

[doug_999]

Originally Posted by ATX78703

It's a cross-over SUV. Not a truck. It is very rarely doing any kind of 'truck-like' activities. Towing capacity is low, off road abilities are limited. IMO, the popularity of of this segment is related to ppl not wanting to drive wagons or minivans. There is a cool factor related to SUVs.

Ppl who really off road drive body on frame SUVs like the 4runner.

It does not matter what people do with it.

Attached is why I think it is a truck. I just don't know of any car that can do this...

PS - from the front, it was even cooler - but we were too shaken up to take pictures afterwards

[doug_999]

This one is from a bit farther back and shows just what this "truck" can do..

[chiplee]

Originally Posted by doug_999

This one is from a bit farther back and shows just what this "truck" can do..

Again, it goes without saying that you can call your X5 anything you want to call it, but I think a vehicle can be much more capable than a car in certain respects, and still not rate being called a truck, at least not universally.

The name "truck" isn't the only alternative to the name "car". And in "off roading" circles I think they would say the X5 in that pic looks "tippy", and frankly scarey. Vehicles with off road capability keep 4 points of contact with the ground much longer than that X5 did, and they have some ground clearance, and usually true lockable 4WD. Like this And yet, this vehicle is also not a "truck".

[ND40oz]

Originally Posted by doug_999

This one is from a bit farther back and shows just what this "truck" can do..

That's an F25 X3 btw...but it is nice to know they can drive up and a down a hill.

[chiplee]

Originally Posted by ND40oz

That's an F25 X3 btw...but it is nice to know they can drive up and a down a hill.

Lol, yeah I think this sums it up.

Turns out these guys don't call their vehicles trucks either. You'll notice how level the bodies are over significantly more technical terrain than the "PDC".

[richard in NC]

The X5 (and new X3) have been driven in the Dakar rallye and have done well. Obviously they were modified just like the off road vehicles in the pics above.

I certainly wouldn't drive a factory X5 off road like the above pics but the Performance Center illustrates it does just fine in any situation most folks would ever drive in. Here are a few more pics from that hill climb. There are several other areas where you 45 degrees up, down, or sideways with no issues. I don't have a good pic of the water crossing but the X5 and X3 can ford over 20 inches of water too.

[doug_999]

Originally Posted by chiplee

Lol, yeah I think this sums it up.

Yea, an X6 with summer tires and a highly modified 4 runner and jeep. What's the point here?

As richard in NC points out, both of your pictures show highly modified vehicles. Yea, the X5 in those pictures was "tippy" - what exactly do you think a F150/RAM would be here?

My point (once again) is that a car can't do what the X5 can do... Call it what you want, but it is not a car.

[doug_999]

Originally Posted by ND40oz

That's an F25 X3 btw...but it is nice to know they can drive up and a down a hill.

My bad, yes, the 2nd pic is an X3. And yes, it can do some amazing things (but that's no hill my friend - that's a scary ass drop with the left front wheel dropping way before the right).

[chiplee]

Originally Posted by doug_999

Yea, an X6 with summer tires and a highly modified 4 runner and jeep. What's the point here?

As richard in NC points out, both of your pictures show highly modified vehicles. Yea, the X5 in those pictures was "tippy" - what exactly do you think a F150/RAM would be here?

My point (once again) is that a car can't do what the X5 can do... Call it what you want, but it is not a car.

I see. I thought your point was that because a car can't do what an X5 can do, we should call an X5 a truck. I think it was when you said this that I got that impression, "Attached is why I think it is a truck. I just don't know of any car that can do this..." I was merely showing you a few vehicles that people don't call trucks, despite the fact that that they also do things cars can't do.

[swainbmw]

Not a truck they are a SAV no body on frame not even to be confused with an SUV. It’s a hybrid between a car and an SUV. Just like a jeep is a cheap not a truck. Unless of course you’re buying the jeep truck version.

[jbash87]

How did you even find this thread?!? It's from 11 years ago!