E70 sprayed out all Freon

[Blackbeard 1706]

refrigerant will always migrate to the coldest place. As you drain the little cans, pressure inside the can drops, so the pressure will drop too. With a cold can on a hot day with a hot car you'll never get all the gas out. I try to keep the can warm, set it on the engine in a area that catches hot air off the radiator. Let the fan blow on it.

[Serf27]

Great to hear on the water pump! I may have to change mine soon. I hear the fan on more often than the other cars. Maybe because it’s a bigger vehicle.

I did see the sticker under the hood showing the Freon info.
I’ll check the temperature tomorrow when I hook up the gauges and see what I find.
To check the pressure on each aide with the gauges, this is what I do right?
Screws lines into adapters
Screw lines into gauges
Make sure red and blue knobs are closed
Make sure green knob between gauges are closed
Hook up lines to vehicle
Have AC on high
Open both red and blue knobs to read pressure.

The can was sitting in my trunk all day. I don’t remember it being cold but I could try to warm it up a little.

[RL18]

Originally Posted by Serf27

I'm still using the gauge on the can.
The new gauges should be here this week.
Temperature was around 90° when I was filling it.
It's been very hot and I've been avoiding using the car. It's the biggest car we have though so I had to use it a few times and it's almost unbearable.

I've used the small cans in the past, they usually always empty out. I've never had a can just stop filling. It is the smallest can available though and does feel like it's full about 2/3.
Do I need a bigger can with more pressure?

I would wait till you get the gauges for it. They'll atleast give you some idea of what's going on in there. Like I said you should try and get a temperature reading coming from the vents and on the vapor line (big line). A good multimeter will have temperature probe attachment that you can put on the vapor line and a magnet . If I'm not mistaken you want to be around 40-45degrees on that vapor line. Following a pt chart as a general guideline should help too… I'll attach one. Also just know that every time you connect to the system you are also pulling a few oz of freon out too so adding a little more before you remove your hoses would be a good idea . A few oz can make a big difference.

[RL18]

Originally Posted by Serf27

Great to hear on the water pump! I may have to change mine soon. I hear the fan on more often than the other cars. Maybe because it's a bigger vehicle.

I did see the sticker under the hood showing the Freon info.
I'll check the temperature tomorrow when I hook up the gauges and see what I find.
To check the pressure on each aide with the gauges, this is what I do right?
Screws lines into adapters
Screw lines into gauges
Make sure red and blue knobs are closed
Make sure green knob between gauges are closed
Hook up lines to vehicle
Have AC on high
Open both red and blue knobs to read pressure.

The can was sitting in my trunk all day. I don't remember it being cold but I could try to warm it up a little.

You want your hoses attached to your gauges already. Make sure they're nice and tight. If you need adapters to adapt to the cars high and low side connections then yes make sure those adapters are on your hoses as well, again nice and tight. Once you connect to the car you will read your pressures on the high and low side.

*DONT OPEN THE GAUGES KNOBS UNTIL YOU HAVE CONNECTED YOUR THIRD (middle line) TO THE FREON CAN.*

The knobs are strictly to open one side or the other into the middle port. If you open them without anything connected you will blow freon out of them. Once all three lines are connected and tight do the following:

*Bleed each line up to the gauges to purge any air that was in your gauges or hoses, again be careful doing this open them slowly*

On the red side (which should be hooked up to the smaller line) you will have some liquid come out so be careful to not let it touch your fingers or eyes. At that point that line is bled. Tighten it back up.
On the blue side vapor will come out, you won't see it but let it bleed a few seconds and the air will come out. Tighten it back up
On the middle line it should not need to be bled because the hose is already connected to the can of freon.

From there ac on as low as you can go, fan on high, and you can add freon based on what your pressures are following the pt chart and your vapor line temperature as I said above.

[Blackbeard 1706]

Ok, an e70 with the Four Zone Climate Control should hold 1.54 lbs according to the little green sticker, stuck to the bottom of the hood near the passenger hood hinge.
So 24.6 ounces, using the little 12 oz cans, assuming you could get 10oz out of them, and had a bit in it when you started, you should have gotten real close with two cans.
What did you put in?

[Serf27]

Originally Posted by RL18

You want your hoses attached to your gauges already. Make sure they're nice and tight. If you need adapters to adapt to the cars high and low side connections then yes make sure those adapters are on your hoses as well, again nice and tight. Once you connect to the car you will read your pressures on the high and low side.

*DONT OPEN THE GAUGES KNOBS UNTIL YOU HAVE CONNECTED YOUR THIRD (middle line) TO THE FREON CAN.*

The knobs are strictly to open one side or the other into the middle port. If you open them without anything connected you will blow freon out of them. Once all three lines are connected and tight do the following:

*Bleed each line up to the gauges to purge any air that was in your gauges or hoses, again be careful doing this open them slowly*

On the red side (which should be hooked up to the smaller line) you will have some liquid come out so be careful to not let it touch your fingers or eyes. At that point that line is bled. Tighten it back up.
On the blue side vapor will come out, you won't see it but let it bleed a few seconds and the air will come out. Tighten it back up
On the middle line it should not need to be bled because the hose is already connected to the can of freon.

From there ac on as low as you can go, fan on high, and you can add freon based on what your pressures are following the pt chart and your vapor line temperature as I said above.

Ok I watched a video that showed what you explained except the video bled the yellow line and not the red/blue lines.
Once the blue and red lines are hooked up, I slowly loosen the hose collar on the gauge until fluid/air comes out of both lines and then tighten the collars?

What knobs are you saying to open slowly? The knobs closest to the cars AC fittings?
The video I watched said not to open the red side. Only to change from the blue low side.
It also mentioned to loosen the collar on the yellow hose at the gauges to purge air out of the line between the can and gauges.

[Serf27]

Originally Posted by Blackbeard 1706

Ok, an e70 with the Four Zone Climate Control should hold 1.54 lbs according to the little green sticker, stuck to the bottom of the hood near the passenger hood hinge.
So 24.6 ounces, using the little 12 oz cans, assuming you could get 10oz out of them, and had a bit in it when you started, you should have gotten real close with two cans.
What did you put in?

I had a small 12 oz can with about 1/4 left in it from my other car. AC issues all over the place currently. I tried to empty it into the e70 but it seemed like it wasn’t taking any. I figured the nozzle/hose on that can was crap because it would leak Freon at the connection, so I got a new bottle and cheap hose.
The new 12oz bottle only let in about 2/3 or 1/4 of the can.
It didn’t take much at all.

[RL18]

Originally Posted by Serf27

Ok I watched a video that showed what you explained except the video bled the yellow line and not the red/blue lines.
Once the blue and red lines are hooked up, I slowly loosen the hose collar on the gauge until fluid/air comes out of both lines and then tighten the collars?

What knobs are you saying to open slowly? The knobs closest to the cars AC fittings?
The video I watched said not to open the red side. Only to change from the blue low side.
It also mentioned to loosen the collar on the yellow hose at the gauges to purge air out of the line between the can and gauges.

Yes loosen the collar on the hose slowly.

When I say knobs I mean the needle valves on the gauges, which open to the middle port. You don't need to open them slowly just open them. Also when you close them don't go crazy tightening them, just close them lightly… the needle valve just needs to seat and if you crank it in you run the risk of getting it stuck and breaking the needle.

If your using a seperate hose to connect to the can of freon then yes purge that too. And since your red and blue hoses will likely have air in them before you connect to your car they need to be purged. The freon will keep the air in the gauges so when you bleed them you bleed out the air that's trapped in there. The key is to not let any air in the system, it will mess with your pressures.

When you go to charge with freon, shut the red side knob completely. Turn the can upside down for liquid. Then charge into the blue side, but since you're putting liquid in then you need to "meter" (aka open knob only enough to let the freon in) the freon into the blue side so you don't put liquid in the vapor side or you'll slug the compressor.

[Serf27]

Ok thank you. I think I got it. I’ll be back with results later today on what I find.

[Serf27]

I was able to add the remaining 2/3 of the small
Can into the system with the gauges.
It’s still blowing hot air.
The low side is reading 90psi while the high side reads 81psi
Low side hose near the adapter was cold while I was filling it. When I ran out of Freon, it was warm and measuring 104°F. The high side was measuring 100°f. Air coming out of the vents so measuring 98°f.

This is what I did and the set up I bought.
Gauges have a red and blue knob/needle. Ill refer to them as knobs.

Closed knobs on gauges

Hooked up red and blue lines to gauges and the car.

Opened the Blue knob until Freon came out of the nipple for the yellow hose then closed it.

Opened the red knob until Freon came out of the nipple for the yellow hose then closed it.

At this point, those lines should have been purged and free of air right?

I then hooked up my yellow hose to the can-yellow valve on can closed.

Hooked up yellow line to gauges.

Opened valve on can to allow Freon in.

Loosened the collar connection between the yellow hose and gauges to until Freon came out.

All 3 lines should have now been purged and free of air yes?

Then I opened the blue knob to allow Freon in.

Closed the blue knob and disconnected everything.
Outside temperature was 90°f
Looking at the graph you posted, my low side is too high on pressure and high side is the opposite.

[Blackbeard 1706]

your pump wasn't running.
Even if it was turning, it wasn't running.
There is honestly no way the blue side (low) can ever be above the red (high).
If that's what your reading, the gauges started off out of calibration.
They could read equal, or equalized if nothing is turning in the pump, but never blue higher then red unless you've just added on the blue side, and the pump can't move anything to the red side.
The 8° difference in your reading is how much the two are out of adjustment with each other.
The clear rubber plug on the face of the gauge has a small screw under it to zero them with each other before use, but you've got bigger problems with that compressor.
Maybe it's locked up internal and the belt clutch is slipping = can't pump.
Or the clutch is engaged but won't turn = won't pump.
Or the whole thing is turning inside and out, but valves/seals/rings are shot = can't pump.

[Serf27]

Originally Posted by Blackbeard 1706

your pump wasn't running.
Even if it was turning, it wasn't running.
There is honestly no way the blue side (low) can ever be above the red (high).
If that's what your reading, the gauges started off out of calibration.
They could read equal, or equalized if nothing is turning in the pump.

Is the compressor bad then?
What should the gauges be at when hooked up and the car off?

[Blackbeard 1706]

There is no way to test or read static pressure "everything hooked up, haven't started the car, or pump"...
It's like checking an auto trans with out pumping oil.
static pressure means nothing...it will read high, perhaps 85-125 or better depending on logistics.

[Blackbeard 1706]

what's key.....is there should always be a significant differential between low and high if that pump is running, or it's just not pumping anything.

[Blackbeard 1706]

look close at your gauges, they have a temp-pressure chart in them.
in your photo, your blue (low) gauge is showing a 82° evaporator (dash), and a 78° condenser (radiator) on the red (high side, discharge outlet )

when it's right, your low side will be 30-35 psi, or about 45-50° using the same needle on the same gauge at the same time, while your red/high side will read roughly radiator temp on the temperature part of the scale, maybe about 130 on the pressure reading of the scale.

Static pressure would be those two meeting roughly, vaugly anywhere in the middle as a compromise.

[Serf27]

Thanks for the replies.
So the gauges should both read 0 when not hooked up to anything?
The pressures in the photo means the compressor is bad? Or the gauges weren’t zeroed out?
I’m lost.

[Blackbeard 1706]

with the gauges off the car, not hooked to anything, open all the knobs everything free...pull the two clear plugs off the face and use a little flat screwdriver to gently calibrate both needles to zero, turn the screws slowly a bit.

and yes, your pic can only indicate that (A) they didn't start calibrated, and (B) that compressor isn't pumping.
either not turning (not engaged) or not pumping (yes engaged, but broke)

I know it can be impossible to see if the center of the compressor clutch is spinning, you can bearly see the outer belt ring of it.

[Blackbeard 1706]

there are two ways to read the guage face.
you will see not only the very outer set of numbers (pressure), but colored rings also.
134a is universally colored light pale blue, and that ring will simultaneously show what temp that line is holding while at that certain pressure.
Temp and pressure are always consistent with refrigeration.

[RL18]

Damn that sucks. Sounds like the compressor is locked up… So I'm not sure how well this technique will work on a scroll compressor but it just might work. So with the old piston type compressors in rooftop units sometimes you could kick them if they were locked up and they'd come free. If you took something like a metal chisel or something similar, maybe not pointy, and give it a few taps with a hammer you just might be able to loosen up the compressor and get it spinning again. Its worth a shot though, obviously you want the system on and calling for cooling while your doing this. I'll attach a picture on where to tap…

Be sure though before you do this it's not something else, like belt slipping or clutch not engaging though. But also I can't understand why it wouldn't of been running. Making sure your gauges are zeroed is important too although they should have already been zeroed… using the gauge "temperature" reading can work too, although that's the "oldschool" way of doing it . Getting an actual temperature reading on your vapor line (big line) will be more accurate since the ambient temperature will affect the pressure and temperature in the system.

Also when I said bleed up the the gauges, just to clarify again, I mean bleed them where I circled below

[Serf27]

What a shame if the compressor is faulty!
Thanks guys.
I’m trying to understand the colored rings inside the gauge like you said Blackbeard, but I’m not grasping it. I’ll read your reply a few more times and see if I can make sense of it.

I just looked at the gauges and they are both at 0. I’m not sure if they were both at 0 yesterday when I hooked them up. I’ll double check again today.

RL18, I’ll try knocking on the compressor to see if it frees up. The way you describe to bleed it is similar to what I did, but not exactly that.
I had the gauges hooked up and no yellow line hooked up. I then opened the gauges at separate times to vent through the nipple for the yellow hose. This seemed easier than loosening the collars. The yellow hose, I did loosen the collar because there was no other way to vent it.

The temperature readings I posted above were taken with a thermo gun from the lines.

The small line was 104° and the big line was 100°.

[Serf27]

The belt and tensioner are pretty new. I swapped them not too long ago.

[RL18]

Okay to expand on what blackbeard1709 said, if you look at the gauges the light blue ring has numbers, 20,40,60, etc. that is a "temperature" reading at that pressure. This doesn't take in account the ambient temperature though. But you will get very close to the right working pressure with that method. Me personally always like to get an actual temperature reading of each line and use a P/T chart to figure out what pressure I need to be at. But I also have fancy digital gauges w/ temperature clamps that automatically do most of the work for me… But if you go off a 90 degree day you'll want to see a pressure around 45-55psi, which should correspond to a vapor line temp of 40-50degrees.

And you can absolutely bleed it that way.

I think at this point you either have a fault compressor that you might be able to free up or a bad clutch that's not engaging…