08-29-2008, 08:38 PM | #1 |
500+ HP Club
102
Rep 205
Posts
Drives: 2014 BMW i8; 2023 BMW M4 CSL
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
|
BMW Delaying X6 xDrive50i delivery
Has anyone heard the newest development with the TTV8? Heard from a very reliable internal BMWNA source which makes this pretty credible. Apparently, with the delivery of a few 2008 50i's so far, there have been a few (more than expected) engine fires. Apparently with the twin turbos of the V8 are mounted on the top of the engine, with the oxygen sensors heat shield, there is still not enough cooling. Engines are overheating thus resulting in engine fires!!! UGH
I am so bummed because I am first up for a 2009 but now I am worried--BMW is scrambling to find a redesign, I doubt it will be a major engine redesign (i.e. relocation of the TTs). BTW, there is s difference in design with the TTV6--these turbos are lower and near the rear of the engine with better air flow. Has anyone else heard about this problem? I see some folks are having their 2008 V8 "delayed" so I wonder if this is the real cause. |
08-29-2008, 08:54 PM | #2 | |
Captain
41
Rep 796
Posts
Drives: '09 X6 50i AW
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Dallas, TX
|
Quote:
Interesting. I have mine and have not caught on fire yet I wonder what BMW is going to do to remedy this for those of us that do have 2008 X6 50i models. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-29-2008, 10:08 PM | #4 | |
Captain
584
Rep 728
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-29-2008, 10:40 PM | #5 |
500+ HP Club
102
Rep 205
Posts
Drives: 2014 BMW i8; 2023 BMW M4 CSL
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
|
Exactly! They removed them in the production model--The vents don't look too bad so I hope they go back to that... would be another distinguishing mark of the V8
Let's see what comes of this.. maybe they can do the hoods quickly and not hold up the '09 production. Besides, look like they are hedging and cutting the production #'s of the 2009 models becuase of concerns about the econonmy. |
Appreciate
0
|
08-29-2008, 10:57 PM | #6 | |
Captain
584
Rep 728
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-30-2008, 01:20 AM | #7 |
Private First Class
9
Rep 165
Posts |
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-30-2008, 01:33 AM | #8 |
Private
14
Rep 71
Posts |
I would imagine that BMW would announce a major recall if this is in fact true. Sounds like a huge liability to keep it under the hood.
I've got the 50i right now in service for a E71 Program Control Unit Power Drop. I wonder what that is for and hope it's not related! I also spoke to the service manager for BMW here and he said they have about 30 cars TTV8 not a single incident of fire. Further, weather here in the summer time averages 106 degrees yet no problems. Last edited by rockmed; 08-30-2008 at 07:11 AM.. |
Appreciate
0
|
08-30-2008, 10:05 AM | #9 |
Second Lieutenant
11
Rep 256
Posts |
I hadn't heard this rumor nor has my dealer, but I'm not surprised. I speculated a few months ago in this forum that the TTV8 -- while being extremely clever and innovative -- might have an achilles heel in that so much heat is concentrated in the V above the engine. Another poster surmised that BMW has to be using "Shuttle grade ceramics" to keep the heat from damaging the engine cover or vehicle hood.
There are two schools of thought about heat concentration like this. The pessimist's view is that the concentrated heat buildup could be very damaging. The optimist's perspective is that at least if the heat is all in one place it can be managed. The "Palbay vents" seen in his pictures of preproduction 50i's would only be helpful if the engine has no cover, which seems to be a no-no these days. If indeed fires have been occurring, that would indictae that it is heat soak following engine shutdown that is the problem. If the rumor is true, it will be interesting to see what BMW engineers come up with. Twin turbos -- there's no free lunch! |
Appreciate
0
|
08-30-2008, 12:00 PM | #10 | |
Captain
584
Rep 728
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-30-2008, 03:42 PM | #12 | |
Captain
41
Rep 796
Posts
Drives: '09 X6 50i AW
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Dallas, TX
|
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-30-2008, 04:03 PM | #13 |
Lieutenant Colonel
89
Rep 1,882
Posts |
I agree with SD , since the turbos are covered inside the engine vents/scoops would do little to address the problem directly. Since No owner of a TT8 is reporting this I'm sceptical, after all we all remember the famous "bmw engineer" MPG quote for the TT8.
I suspect these were run harder at the track then any of us will ever approach. So at this point will consider this 3 series fud as that seems to be going around. Last edited by dmlgc; 09-01-2008 at 11:44 PM.. |
Appreciate
0
|
08-30-2008, 04:06 PM | #14 | |
Private
14
Rep 71
Posts |
Quote:
By the way, after continuous driving for over 100 miles, I touched the hood of the car and it wasn't hot at all. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-31-2008, 02:19 AM | #15 | |
Lieutenant Colonel
51
Rep 1,754
Posts |
Quote:
They would end up right on top of the fresh air intake for the passenger compartment! That is unless those pictures palbay took of the original prototype cars actaually had some other duct configuration under the hood!
__________________
2009 750i individual | Citrin Black Metallic | Platinum Merino Extended Leather | BMW Individual Composition Package (includes Sport Package) | Dynamic Handling Package | Multimedia Package | Technology Package | Executive Package
http://www.7post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=234432 |
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-31-2008, 12:08 PM | #16 |
Enlisted Member
2
Rep 31
Posts |
Wouldn't the vents on the top make the air pass through the kidney grills, then through engine compartment then come out on top through the vents thus increasing airflow in the top part of the engine compartment?
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-31-2008, 12:33 PM | #17 |
Captain
584
Rep 728
Posts |
Yes, I'm not an engineer,but you would get the flowthru effect w/ the car at speed.I still believe it would help at idle or low speed.Hot air rises.Look at most modern auto hood systems...they are completely sealed except for the front grill openings.Done mostly for engine noise suppression (the masses don't want to hear the machine they are driving) and for aerodynamics related to MPG.None of the above is really conducive to 1,200 degree F turbo's staying cool.I know modern turbo's are cooled by the water jacket,etc.Still, very sealed engine compartment w/ very hot turbo's not real good for long engine life.Not to long ago auto manfs recommended popping the hood after long runs to help cool turbo engines .It's like BMWs "Free Maintenance" just because they say long intervals is ok on certain items,does not make it right.If the TTV8 has overheating issues the hood vents would help....just like popping the hood still helps on turbo engines.Nobody does it because its a hassle no one wants to engage in.Back to my original point...there is a reason those hood vents are on test cars....to vent hot engine air.The test cars are pushed.But not every second is spent on the track.Just my two cents worth...again!!!! Thanks!!! PalBay
__________________
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-31-2008, 01:10 PM | #18 | |
Major
91
Rep 1,209
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
2011 535i
2008 VW GTI |
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-31-2008, 03:48 PM | #19 | |
Second Lieutenant
11
Rep 256
Posts |
Quote:
If there is, indeed, a heat problem, I'm guessing it is from the catalysts and not the turbos. The turbos are cooled both by oil and by coolant, and they have a supplemental pump that keeps them cooling after engine shutdown. But the catalysts -- also right there at the back of the V at the top of the engine -- have no cooling at all. In fact quite the opposite: they need to have their contents almost red hot in order to work correctly. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-31-2008, 06:47 PM | #20 | |
Captain
584
Rep 728
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-31-2008, 08:44 PM | #21 |
500+ HP Club
102
Rep 205
Posts
Drives: 2014 BMW i8; 2023 BMW M4 CSL
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
|
Well guys, they sure did test the car hard under all sorts of conditions for sure. However, we all know that the real test comes when the products are in the hards of the consumer. Think for instance about the oil pan cooling for the 335i (another twin turbo). I have an 335i so i know the full story. Initially, there were isolated reports, but as more came in, it became pretty obvious there was a problem (even though the car was fully tested before production).
We enthusiasts will drive the car hard and probably operate it harder than well we probably should. Remember this is the V8 and does not appear to affect the V6. It is appears to be the location of the TT in the V8...they are mounted up high and are apparently not getting enough cool air (probably the reason for the hood vents). it is the sensors and plastic covers that are melting because the heat shield may not be enough to protect this area. They (BMW) is far more sensitive with these TT after the 335i experience. They got a few in and noticed that this was the problem, so they are working on a fix. Doubt it will be relocation of TT since with would be a major engine redesign. Probably a better heat shield or maybe even better heat shield. I am not surprised the dealers know nothing--as a class, they are generally useless. Stick to the forums! If you have a V8, enjoy it but just know that there may be a fix coming... don't over do it though |
Appreciate
0
|
09-01-2008, 02:30 AM | #22 | |
Lieutenant Colonel
51
Rep 1,754
Posts |
Quote:
Take a look at the above picture I had posted in my last post. You can clearly see the 'upside down shaped V' air dam with the black soft rubber lip on top. This damn prevents any air "flow through" from the front kidney grills, over the engine and out over the windshield. This area is used as the fresh air intake for the passenger compartment. It prevents rain, snow and other stuff from getting into the fresh air intake while you are driving. As Suzie's Dad said: 'But isn't that bit just in front of the windshield a high-pressure area? That's why they put the air intakes there for the passenger compartment. Which means that at speed air would be forced IN through those vents, even though it would rise out at rest.' So those grills in those pictures palbay posted are either just for looks and are none functional or the under the hood passenger compartment air intake originally had a completely different shape. Otherwise they would had to be located half way down the hood to be in front of the air damn or they would have had to put a single one in the middle of the hood bear the windshield.
__________________
2009 750i individual | Citrin Black Metallic | Platinum Merino Extended Leather | BMW Individual Composition Package (includes Sport Package) | Dynamic Handling Package | Multimedia Package | Technology Package | Executive Package
http://www.7post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=234432 |
|
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
Tags |
bmw x6, engine fires, xdrive50i |
|
|