N63 engine - can i use 5W-50 oil ?

[slovakE70]

Hello,

So the question is simple - can i use 5W-50 oil in my N63 engine ?

5W-50 is probably not recommended (is not listed in vehicle manual), but could there be any problem with 5W-50 oil ?
Vehicle is doing short trips during the week (low speed, low rpm, no big throttle), but during the weekends is doing long trips and lots of sport style driving.
Currently using 5W-40 oil, and oil consumption is roughly 1 l of oil / 1200 miles.
Can the 5W-50 oil help with oil burning ? Will be better in summer during the hot days at 6000 rpm ? Should i stick with 5W-40 oil ?

Have somebody experience with 5W-50 oil in N63 engine ?

Thank you

[X5 MAN]

I only used 0W-40

My 50i has never gone above 3000 rpm even at 100mph (160 kmph)

5w-50 oil must be for the Sahara Desert Rally

[RichardH]

I'm using 5w50 on my S63 no issues,
Ravenol
I'm in South Africa so it gets quite hot here in the summer

[slovakE70]

Originally Posted by X5 MAN

I only used 0W-40

My 50i has never gone above 3000 rpm even at 100mph (160 kmph)

5w-50 oil must be for the Sahara Desert Rally

Yeah, the engine stays at low rpm, until you floor it in sport mode. Which is what i do, sometimes

The reason for me to switch from "40" to "50" oil it's more to help oil consumption - if it could.

[slovakE70]

Originally Posted by RichardH

I'm using 5w50 on my S63 no issues,
Ravenol
I'm in South Africa so it gets quite hot here in the summer

I heard Ravenol is quite good. I'm looking for Mobil 1 5W-50 which is more available over here.

Did you switch to 5W-50 from different oil ? And if so, did it help with oil consumption ?

[yco]

Originally Posted by slovakE70

Yeah, the engine stays at low rpm, until you floor it in sport mode. Which is what i do, sometimes

The reason for me to switch from "40" to "50" oil it's more to help oil consumption - if it could.

do you wait until optimum oil temp before you do some pulls?
if not, that can increase oil consumption.. i dont know about N63 but S63 do consume some oil clearly.. since its based on N63 wont be surprised.. but in short.. i wouldnt use an oil out of BMW's recommended chart for the engine..

[slovakE70]

Originally Posted by yco

do you wait until optimum oil temp before you do some pulls?
if not, that can increase oil consumption.. i dont know about N63 but S63 do consume some oil clearly.. since its based on N63 wont be surprised.. but in short.. i wouldnt use an oil out of BMW's recommended chart for the engine..

Allways minimum 15 miles (25 km) of normal easy driving before any big throttle openings.
My N63 have probably valve stem seals on its way so i was wondering if "50" oil could help a bit.
Ofcourse the oil will meet API and ACEA requirements for the engine.

[Autobacs]

Originally Posted by yco

do you wait until optimum oil temp before you do some pulls?
if not, that can increase oil consumption.. i dont know about N63 but S63 do consume some oil clearly.. since its based on N63 wont be surprised.. but in short.. i wouldnt use an oil out of BMW's recommended chart for the engine..

Not in my experience. My 650i w/ 45,000 miles burned 1/2 quart every 1200 miles. My X5M burned only 1/2 quart in 7,000 miles. N63 burns a lot more oil.

[slovakE70]

Originally Posted by Autobacs

Not in my experience. My 650i w/ 45,000 miles burned 1/2 quart every 1200 miles. My X5M burned only 1/2 quart in 7,000 miles. N63 burns a lot more oil.

Yeah you're right. But i don't know much about S63. Always thought that S63 burning probably the same as N63 (at least the first ones)
My N63 burning about 1 quart / 1200 miles, valve stem seals could be shot.

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by slovakE70

Yeah you're right. But i don't know much about S63. Always thought that S63 burning probably the same as N63 (at least the first ones)
My N63 burning about 1 quart / 1200 miles, valve stem seals could be shot.

N63 & S63 use same valve stem seals and valves, the reason why it's worse on the N63 is the S63 had additional oil cooling and no giant goofy air cleaners trapping the heat under the valve covers making the problem worse as well as most M's are not grocery-getter, stuck in traffic daily drivers. It is easier on your engine driving 110+ then sitting in stop and go traffic baking the crap out of everything under your hood.

I can guarantee you it's you valve stem seals with slight possibility it's partially clogged turbo oil return lines. I had the exact same problem as you and recently replaced all my valve stem seals, oil consumption went from a quart every 1100-1500 miles to well I am 3,000 miles into it after the seal replacement and the oil level hasn't dropped at all yet.

Valve stem seals are major work, 50+ hour job if you do it yourself. If you do t have the time or money to do that, you can try one of the oil additives from liquMoly that helps rejuvenate rubber seals and it should help.

The real danger with burning so much oil is it can damage your valves, I put 50k miles on mine burning oil like this before I finally did the seals and had to pull the heads to refinish the valves the pitting was so bad. I would try the additive first and then go from there.

[slovakE70]

Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck

N63 & S63 use same valve stem seals and valves, the reason why it's worse on the N63 is the S63 had additional oil cooling and no giant goofy air cleaners trapping the heat under the valve covers making the problem worse as well as most M's are not grocery-getter, stuck in traffic daily drivers. It is easier on your engine driving 110+ then sitting in stop and go traffic baking the crap out of everything under your hood.

I can guarantee you it's you valve stem seals with slight possibility it's partially clogged turbo oil return lines. I had the exact same problem as you and recently replaced all my valve stem seals, oil consumption went from a quart every 1100-1500 miles to well I am 3,000 miles into it after the seal replacement and the oil level hasn't dropped at all yet.

Valve stem seals are major work, 50+ hour job if you do it yourself. If you do t have the time or money to do that, you can try one of the oil additives from liquMoly that helps rejuvenate rubber seals and it should help.

The real danger with burning so much oil is it can damage your valves, I put 50k miles on mine burning oil like this before I finally did the seals and had to pull the heads to refinish the valves the pitting was so bad. I would try the additive first and then go from there.

Thank you so much for such a info.

Yeah my X5 is daily driver grocery-getter so it probably won't help much. The previous owner killed original engine with long oil change intervals and probably didn't know annything about cooling the engine down after german autobahn driving.

The new engine have around 60 000 miles. Since when i own the car, i allways change the oil (5W-40) after maximum of 6 000 miles. Oil consumption went graduably worse.

I also think that valve steam seals are bad. But clogged turbo oil return lines ? If those are bad, should i see oil in the charge air pipes ? (Turbo seals leaking oil into the intake ? )

I've tried to warm up the engine (10 mile easy drive), then let it idle for around 10 minutes and then i floored it for couple seconds. (Holded it at rev limiter for 2 seconds). There was a small cloud of grey-blue smoke comming from the exhaus, but nothing too crazy. The car is not smoking during the driving or at idle.

Did you put in OEM valve stem seals ? I would like to do the seals myself, but on X5 you probably can't pull the heads with engine in car. And i don't have a lift so that will be a problem. I know there is a AGA N63 valve seal tool kit, but don't know if i can rent one in here.

I will be doing an oil change in couple weeks, together with spark plugs and air filters. I'll put quality 5W-50 oil there and check charge air pipes.
If the 50 oil will not help by any means (which probably doesn't, but will see), I'll put the additives which you mentioned and will see.

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by slovakE70

Thank you so much for such a info.

Yeah my X5 is daily driver grocery-getter so it probably won't help much. The previous owner killed original engine with long oil change intervals and probably didn't know annything about cooling the engine down after german autobahn driving.

The new engine have around 60 000 miles. Since when i own the car, i allways change the oil (5W-40) after maximum of 6 000 miles. Oil consumption went graduably worse.

I also think that valve steam seals are bad. But clogged turbo oil return lines ? If those are bad, should i see oil in the charge air pipes ? (Turbo seals leaking oil into the intake ? )

I've tried to warm up the engine (10 mile easy drive), then let it idle for around 10 minutes and then i floored it for couple seconds. (Holded it at rev limiter for 2 seconds). There was a small cloud of grey-blue smoke comming from the exhaus, but nothing too crazy. The car is not smoking during the driving or at idle.

Did you put in OEM valve stem seals ? I would like to do the seals myself, but on X5 you probably can't pull the heads with engine in car. And i don't have a lift so that will be a problem. I know there is a AGA N63 valve seal tool kit, but don't know if i can rent one in here.

I will be doing an oil change in couple weeks, together with spark plugs and air filters. I'll put quality 5W-50 oil there and check charge air pipes.
If the 50 oil will not help by any means (which probably doesn't, but will see), I'll put the additives which you mentioned and will see.

No problem happy to help. If the turbo return lines are getting clogged, you are exactly right and will see oil leaking out of the charge pipes and intercoolers will be coated with oil inside when you pull them.

If its not smoking at idle then its not too bad but will progressively get worse. I setup a custom catch-can setup with adjustable one-way valves to apply more crankcase vacuum on mine which eliminated all the smoking at Idle as mine was pretty bad before. However there is no vacuum during acceleration or high-speed driving so this was only partially helpful since that is what I mainly do =) l. I thought of setting up a electric vacuum pump but ultimately decided to just redo the valve guide seals.

Yep used OEM, I Used the AGA Kit as I never intended to pull the heads, however I had to when I saw how bad the exhaust valves (before & after pics below) were on my boresope, they needed to be lapped so I had no choice. I dont have a lift and the heads were never intended to be pulled while the engine was in the truck. It was a challenge I dont recommend. You can do all the valve seals with AGA kit in the truck but it will still take 40-50 hours. Pulling heads will add another 20-30 hours if you decide to decarbonize everything while you are in there.

If you cant get the AGA kit, then I would recommend setting up the custom catch-cans like I did as in your case it will help buy you time since yours is not to bad yet until you are ready to pull the engine. Or if you REALLY want a challenge, you can pull the heads while in car but I really dont recommend it, not to mention adds alot of cost: 400 dollars for head gaskets and 200 dollars in head bolts alone.

[slovakE70]

Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck

No problem happy to help. If the turbo return lines are getting clogged, you are exactly right and will see oil leaking out of the charge pipes and intercoolers will be coated with oil inside when you pull them.

If its not smoking at idle then its not too bad but will progressively get worse. I setup a custom catch-can setup with adjustable one-way valves to apply more crankcase vacuum on mine which eliminated all the smoking at Idle as mine was pretty bad before. However there is no vacuum during acceleration or high-speed driving so this was only partially helpful since that is what I mainly do =) l. I thought of setting up a electric vacuum pump but ultimately decided to just redo the valve guide seals.

Yep used OEM, I Used the AGA Kit as I never intended to pull the heads, however I had to when I saw how bad the exhaust valves (before & after pics below) were on my boresope, they needed to be lapped so I had no choice. I dont have a lift and the heads were never intended to be pulled while the engine was in the truck. It was a challenge I dont recommend. You can do all the valve seals with AGA kit in the truck but it will still take 40-50 hours. Pulling heads will add another 20-30 hours if you decide to decarbonize everything while you are in there.

If you cant get the AGA kit, then I would recommend setting up the custom catch-cans like I did as in your case it will help buy you time since yours is not to bad yet until you are ready to pull the engine. Or if you REALLY want a challenge, you can pull the heads while in car but I really dont recommend it, not to mention adds alot of cost: 400 dollars for head gaskets and 200 dollars in head bolts alone.

Thank you again for your response.

I was thinking about oil catch cans setup, but i'll have to go on technical inspection in 4 months and if they'll see catch cans, vehicle will not pass. Basically they see it as custom not-allowed mod and will make the vehicle road-illegal.

That technicall inspection worries me a bit, because part of it is also a emission test. If the engine is burning oil, then they'll measure high values of unburned fuel or carbon monoxide, which will not pass the test and make the vehicle also road-illegal until you fix the problem and repeat the test. And theres no way to fool this.

Well maybe the vehicle will pass the inspection. But oil consumption still worries me. I saw the original engine that was used in my car - the valves and ports were so baked with carbon, there was no reason trying to save the engine. That "before" picture you posted - that looked so clean compared to what i saw on the original engine.

One more thing - i was looking at my PCV hoses today and they looked fine (no cracks on anny other damage). It's possible that they could be bad ? Is there some way to find out ? Could replacing them for new ones help a bit with oil consumption ?

Thank you.

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by slovakE70

Thank you again for your response.

I was thinking about oil catch cans setup, but i'll have to go on technical inspection in 4 months and if they'll see catch cans, vehicle will not pass. Basically they see it as custom not-allowed mod and will make the vehicle road-illegal.

That technicall inspection worries me a bit, because part of it is also a emission test. If the engine is burning oil, then they'll measure high values of unburned fuel or carbon monoxide, which will not pass the test and make the vehicle also road-illegal until you fix the problem and repeat the test. And theres no way to fool this.

Well maybe the vehicle will pass the inspection. But oil consumption still worries me. I saw the original engine that was used in my car - the valves and ports were so baked with carbon, there was no reason trying to save the engine. That "before" picture you posted - that looked so clean compared to what i saw on the original engine.

One more thing - i was looking at my PCV hoses today and they looked fine (no cracks on anny other damage). It's possible that they could be bad ? Is there some way to find out ? Could replacing them for new ones help a bit with oil consumption ?

Thank you.

Mine sounds like it was alot like your original engine, everything was coated in heavy carbon, valves, pistons, combustion chambers. It would have been easier just to buy a new engine as it took me over 100+ hours to go through this one, but I already had it torn down so decided just to finish it. Before and after pics below.

As for the Catch-Cans, I can put mine back to stock in less then an hour, so if you are serious about doing it, I can list all the parts you need to get.

The Stock CCV lines are corrugated plastic and very hard to detect cracks in them. If they are leaking or the internal check-valve is broken then it will cause you to burn more oil. It would not be a bad idea to replace them. If you do, keep the old ones. You will use some the fittings from them if you decide to do Catch-cans (which is something I highly recommend for all N63's, its amazing how much oil they catch and shows how poorly designed the original CCV system is)

In Arizona, I passed emissions fine even when it was smoking bad as here they are very lazy and unless there is a check-engine light, they do not care. They only test true tail-pipe emissions on older vehicles. It sounds like they are much more strict in your country but hopefully you will be ok

[TwinSnailz]

Mr.Rednex , did you replace your timing chain and guides during the process?

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by TwinSnailz

Mr.Rednex , did you replace your timing chain and guides during the process?

I thought a about it but they all appeared to be in good shape (previous owner had done th CPO) and this engine is more or less a test engine for me. I plan to push it until it breaks, then rebuild with all forged pistons, crank & new sleeves, bigger turbos, etc. I just put on the ESS flash, next up is the jb4, f85 intake, exhaust, Alpina intercoolers, crank it to 21psi and see how long it lasts on a 50/50 mix of 100&91. Going to start a build log on it soon. Goal is 600hp at the wheels and solid 11s at the strip.

With that all being said, I did snap one of the Teflon guides when lowering down the bank1 head (not easy with the engine in the truck) and had to replace which was tricky without a complete front teardown. Definitely don't recommend pulling heads on this without it being out of the truck. Need to take up the garage ceiling a few feet so I can fit a lift in.

[slovakE70]

Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck

Mine sounds like it was alot like your original engine, everything was coated in heavy carbon, valves, pistons, combustion chambers. It would have been easier just to buy a new engine as it took me over 100+ hours to go through this one, but I already had it torn down so decided just to finish it. Before and after pics below.

As for the Catch-Cans, I can put mine back to stock in less then an hour, so if you are serious about doing it, I can list all the parts you need to get.

The Stock CCV lines are corrugated plastic and very hard to detect cracks in them. If they are leaking or the internal check-valve is broken then it will cause you to burn more oil. It would not be a bad idea to replace them. If you do, keep the old ones. You will use some the fittings from them if you decide to do Catch-cans (which is something I highly recommend for all N63's, its amazing how much oil they catch and shows how poorly designed the original CCV system is)

In Arizona, I passed emissions fine even when it was smoking bad as here they are very lazy and unless there is a check-engine light, they do not care. They only test true tail-pipe emissions on older vehicles. It sounds like they are much more strict in your country but hopefully you will be ok

You did a great job cleaning the engine up. That had to be a hell of a job, with engine in the car. I would say on my original engine the carbon build up was even worse. If i find some pictures i'll post them.

I probably will be doing catch-cans, but after the inspection. In meantime i could replace the CCV lines and keep the old ones for the future catch-can setup.

Yeah they are pretty strict in here. 10-15 year ago you could comme with catless straight pipes, welded frame, taillights not working and it would pass. I remember around 12 years ago i came in with my grandfather's old Lada Niva. That thing stalled on the entrance and it couldn't be started at all. We had to push it through the whole inspection line. It passed.
But couple years back government went crazy about it. Now they have 3 cameras recording whole process, technicians have to take pictures of VIN number, engine bay, underside of the vehicle, and most important - odometer reading. They measure tailpipe emmisions but the standards are pretty strict, especially for cars from 2010 and newer.

[Thecastle]

Originally Posted by slovakE70

Yeah you're right. But i don't know much about S63. Always thought that S63 burning probably the same as N63 (at least the first ones)
My N63 burning about 1 quart / 1200 miles, valve stem seals could be shot.

I'm just going to mention the test for verifying bad valve stem seals is to get the engine to full operating temperature, oil and coolant fully warm. Let the car idle for about 5 minutes. Then with someone outside watching the exhaust, or backup camera on, quickly floor the car. If you see a smoke out the exhausts the valve stem seals are shot. It happens on S63's just not as often as N62/63s. I've had them.

Something that really reduces smoking and I've personally used it with a lot of success is AT-205, you can buy it from Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/ATP-AT-205-Re.../dp/B000NVW1LM

Its not a fix per say, but it will get you some extra time and passed inspections assuming its not too bad.

I used it in multiple vehicles with lots of success.

[Thecastle]

Originally Posted by slovakE70

Thank you again for your response.

One more thing - i was looking at my PCV hoses today and they looked fine (no cracks on anny other damage). It's possible that they could be bad ? Is there some way to find out ? Could replacing them for new ones help a bit with oil consumption ?

Thank you.

Smoke test. The PCV hoses on these cars are common failure items. I've replaced all of mine.

[slovakE70]

Originally Posted by Thecastle

I'm just going to mention the test for verifying bad valve stem seals is to get the engine to full operating temperature, oil and coolant fully warm. Let the car idle for about 5 minutes. Then with someone outside watching the exhaust, or backup camera on, quickly floor the car. If you see a smoke out the exhausts the valve stem seals are shot. It happens on S63's just not as often as N62/63s. I've had them.

Something that really reduces smoking and I've personally used it with a lot of success is AT-205, you can buy it from Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/ATP-AT-205-Re.../dp/B000NVW1LM

Its not a fix per say, but it will get you some extra time and passed inspections assuming its not too bad.

I used it in multiple vehicles with lots of success.

Thank you for your response.

I did this test like a month ago, but instead of 5 minutes idling i let the car idle for about 10 minutes. There was a small cloud of smoke but nothing too crazy.
Looks like a will be doing the test again, with 5 minutes of idle.

But yeah valve stem seals coud be shot, since the car is "loosing" 1 quart every 1000-1200 miles.

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by slovakE70

You did a great job cleaning the engine up. That had to be a hell of a job, with engine in the car. I would say on my original engine the carbon build up was even worse. If i find some pictures i'll post them.

I probably will be doing catch-cans, but after the inspection. In meantime i could replace the CCV lines and keep the old ones for the future catch-can setup.

Yeah they are pretty strict in here. 10-15 year ago you could comme with catless straight pipes, welded frame, taillights not working and it would pass. I remember around 12 years ago i came in with my grandfather's old Lada Niva. That thing stalled on the entrance and it couldn't be started at all. We had to push it through the whole inspection line. It passed.
But couple years back government went crazy about it. Now they have 3 cameras recording whole process, technicians have to take pictures of VIN number, engine bay, underside of the vehicle, and most important - odometer reading. They measure tailpipe emmisions but the standards are pretty strict, especially for cars from 2010 and newer.

TY =) It was definitely a challenge! Yes keep those lines for the catch-cans. By time you get done with emissions and are ready for it, I will have the dual electric vacuum pump setup done and tested that will be incorporated with the catch-cans I have now, if it works out I will share all details, should provide a nice performance increase under boost conditions and will also help eliminate carbon build-up on the valves.

Its crazy how Draconian they are becoming, I guess in the future us petro drivers will become outlaws

[slovakE70]

So my original question was answered month ago when i was doing an oil change and I poured 5W-50 Mobil 1. Before that i was using 5W-40.
I didn't notice any difference in engine noise. Car runs fine as it should.

Main reason for me to use 5W-50 was to help with oil consumption, but looks like it didn't help much. After about 1200 miles low engine oil warning came. With 5W-40 it was burning 1 quart about every 900 - 1000 miles.

What woried me a bit was that the old oil was black, almost like a N63 was a diesel engine. And i was changing that oil after about 5000 miles, like i allways do. Never notice so dark - black oil color before ....