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      03-31-2018, 06:13 AM   #1
Skoot
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X5 Woes...

Hi All,

I have a 2012 X5. 4.4L
I was driving home yesterday and after a "spirited" part of freeway, I pulled off and headed home.
As I pulled off the engine stopped.
I coasted to a halt and tried to start it again. It started but I got an engine fault indicated. A message said that the journey could be completed at reduced power.

I took the car to a repair shop (the same repair shop that replaced my valve seals about 3 months ago) and they have run some tests and they tell me that I need 4 new oil control valves and 2 new Cam Adjustment Units. (one inlet, one outlet).

They're quoting around $2000.

Does that sound right? Four oil control valves? AND 2 adjustment units?

I can't help feeling this is caused by something they did (or didn't do) while they were replacing the oil seals.

Could someone throw some light on this for me, please?

Thanks in advance.

Skoot.
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      03-31-2018, 07:45 AM   #2
Ryan5034
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do you have any engine codes or data that you can post to help us out?
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      03-31-2018, 08:16 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan5034 View Post
do you have any engine codes or data that you can post to help us out?
I'm sorry, I don't.

I have to talk to them later so I will ask for them.
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      03-31-2018, 08:51 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan5034 View Post
do you have any engine codes or data that you can post to help us out?
Ok, I asked him for the fault codes and he gave me these:

2A7E Exhaust Vanos Mechanism
2A9C Camshaft Intake 2
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      03-31-2018, 09:31 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skoot View Post
Hi All,

I can't help feeling this is caused by something they did (or didn't do) while they were replacing the oil seals.

Skoot.
I'm pretty sure you are right. Cam adjustment units must be removed for the Valve Stem seal replacement, and there are many ways to do the job wrong. There are 2 units in both banks. 4 altogether. You seem to have problem only in one side.

The Cam adjuster bolts should be replaced after removal because they are torqued to 30Nm + 90 degree stretch angle. The old bolts can't be re-used. Of course the timing must be correct before the final torquing and copper paste should be used in the bolt contact faces.


Assuming those Oil control valves are the vanos solenoids. 2 in both banks. They are removed when timing is adjusted, and usually replaced if the metallic filters are dirty. Maybe they failed for some random reason, or that Shop just did the cam timing wrong.

$2000 is reasonable because they have to take valve cover and timing case cover out again for one bank. And fan, and belts, injectors, plugs, fuel pump, and tons of wiring, and...

So exactly the same components they were touching 3 months ago...
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      04-01-2018, 03:01 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKR View Post
I'm pretty sure you are right. Cam adjustment units must be removed for the Valve Stem seal replacement, and there are many ways to do the job wrong. There are 2 units in both banks. 4 altogether. You seem to have problem only in one side.

The Cam adjuster bolts should be replaced after removal because they are torqued to 30Nm + 90 degree stretch angle. The old bolts can't be re-used. Of course the timing must be correct before the final torquing and copper paste should be used in the bolt contact faces.


Assuming those Oil control valves are the vanos solenoids. 2 in both banks. They are removed when timing is adjusted, and usually replaced if the metallic filters are dirty. Maybe they failed for some random reason, or that Shop just did the cam timing wrong.

$2000 is reasonable because they have to take valve cover and timing case cover out again for one bank. And fan, and belts, injectors, plugs, fuel pump, and tons of wiring, and...

So exactly the same components they were touching 3 months ago...
The shop is not going to admit they did something wrong. They will blame it on random failures. Is there any way I can tell that they screwed up?

And the $2k quote was only for the parts. Not the labor.

Last edited by Skoot; 04-01-2018 at 03:03 AM.. Reason: More info
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      04-01-2018, 08:58 PM   #7
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Uh.. ok looks like those adjustment units are $500 each and valves $200 each.
+ gaskets. Makes it around $2k.

If it was BMW dealer they should warrant their work? Maybe try to contact BMW USA directly.

If independent shop, it will be hard to argue with them. Maybe ask second diagnosis and opinion from another shop?
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      04-01-2018, 11:06 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKR View Post
Uh.. ok looks like those adjustment units are $500 each and valves $200 each.
+ gaskets. Makes it around $2k.

If it was BMW dealer they should warrant their work? Maybe try to contact BMW USA directly.

If independent shop, it will be hard to argue with them. Maybe ask second diagnosis and opinion from another shop?
It was an independent shop so I don't think I'll get much joy from them. Even if I go to another shop and they blame the first one, it's fairly unlikely I'll get anything back from them. That's not how things work out here.

I think I'll just have to get the first shop to do the work and try and get them to reduce the labor costs. I don't remember seeing new bolts for the Adjustment Units itemised on the bill for new seals.

It's my guess that they used the old bolts and that's why the failure occurred.

Is it usual for 4 Oil Control Valves to fail at the same time? Do they always get replaced as a set?
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      04-02-2018, 07:57 AM   #9
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Before you do anything, I'd have them perform a vacuum leak check. When I had a leak, the vehicle was throwing all sorts of unrelated codes, including the ones you mentioned. Fact is, they had to move the vent pipes around when they did your valve seals and those are brittle, and may have cracked. Also make sure the thin rubber air lines are securely connected to their air canisters.
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      04-02-2018, 09:15 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mirob View Post
Before you do anything, I'd have them perform a vacuum leak check. When I had a leak, the vehicle was throwing all sorts of unrelated codes, including the ones you mentioned. Fact is, they had to move the vent pipes around when they did your valve seals and those are brittle, and may have cracked. Also make sure the thin rubber air lines are securely connected to their air canisters.
Thanks, I'll tell them.

Did that put the car into 'Limp mode'?
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      04-02-2018, 09:24 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skoot View Post
Thanks, I'll tell them.

Did that put the car into 'Limp mode'?
Yes, it did. Cause was cracked vent pipe, Bank 2 (driver's side). Pain in the ass to diagnose and replace.
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      04-02-2018, 12:39 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKR View Post
The Cam adjuster bolts should be replaced after removal because they are torqued to 30Nm + 90 degree stretch angle. The old bolts can't be re-used. Of course the timing must be correct before the final torquing and copper paste should be used in the bolt contact faces.
I spoke to the guy today and he said that the bolts were not replaced when the oil seals were done. He said it wouldn't make a difference because the car has been running for 3 months. I said it took that much time for the bolts to give up but he wouldn't have it.
I told him to take the engine apart so I can see the cam adjustment unit but the truth is, I have no idea what they look like so I won't have much of a clue as to what the problem is.
What would indicate that the bolts had failed? Would there be any signs?
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      04-02-2018, 12:40 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mirob View Post
Yes, it did. Cause was cracked vent pipe, Bank 2 (driver's side). Pain in the ass to diagnose and replace.
I told him to do a vacuum leak check and he said he would.
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      04-02-2018, 09:05 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skoot View Post
I told him to do a vacuum leak check and he said he would.
This was a good recommend. My vac hoses made all kinds of janky codes show up.
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      04-17-2018, 01:38 PM   #15
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Any update from the leak test?
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      04-25-2018, 01:18 PM   #16
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yes update pls...
hoping perhaps this was your issue and not the hard parts...
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      09-02-2018, 10:36 AM   #17
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On and on it goes...

The car is STILL in the shop. They said they did a vacuum check back in April and it was ok. I waited ages for the Cam intake units to come in. They eventually did and were fitted. On starting the car they said there was bottom end damage and the crank would need to be re-ground and one of the big ends needs replacing. They also told me that the initial problem was caused by a weak oil pump which wasn't squirting oil high enough into the engine. After waiting for ages AGIAN, they finally put it back together and started it yesterday. Now they are telling me that the OTHER two cam intake units need to be replaced. They didn't replace the oil pump in the end but said they would take it to bits and clean it. I think they're making this crap up as they go along.
So I have another couple of questions.

1. Would a weak oil pump really cause this and if it would, why didn't I get an oil pressure low warning?
2. Why would the cam intake units on the other side start throwing up a failure when they didn't show a fail when this problem first occurred?

I'm just about at the end of my tether on this one.

Thanks in advance for any help/advice.

Skoot
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      09-02-2018, 12:18 PM   #18
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Not that this terribly helps, but a new engine is $3700. Now there is a ton of labor involved, but I'm not sure I'd trust and Indy to properly machine and rebuild this engine.

All that labor would have to be done fixing your existing engine anyway.
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      09-03-2018, 01:27 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan5034 View Post
Not that this terribly helps, but a new engine is $3700. Now there is a ton of labor involved, but I'm not sure I'd trust and Indy to properly machine and rebuild this engine.

All that labor would have to be done fixing your existing engine anyway.
I was wondering how much a new engine would be so that is good to know. Thanks.
Problem is, I live in the Middle East so any idea how much it would cost to get it here?
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      09-12-2018, 07:39 AM   #20
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I think you can replace the 4 oil control valves aka vanos solenoids for ~$120usd and an hour of your time
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      09-12-2018, 09:56 AM   #21
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Well I don't think you are being told the full story.

1st off there's no way I trust anyone to rebuild that engine. Just buy a new / refurb engine and walk away.

However you got so much going on there I'm not really sure what is happening. If there is anyway you can get it put back together and drive able, I think you should sell it / trade it, or find a new mechanic.

Back to your questions, if an oil pump is bad that can definintely mess just about everything up. Why you wouldn't get oil pressure warning I don't know.
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      09-12-2018, 11:25 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan5034 View Post
Well I don't think you are being told the full story.

1st off there's no way I trust anyone to rebuild that engine. Just buy a new / refurb engine and walk away.

However you got so much going on there I'm not really sure what is happening. If there is anyway you can get it put back together and drive able, I think you should sell it / trade it, or find a new mechanic.

Back to your questions, if an oil pump is bad that can definintely mess just about everything up. Why you wouldn't get oil pressure warning I don't know.
I completely agree. I know I'm never going to trust the car again. I spoke to them today and they said it's all back together and working...they are just waiting for the guy with the computer to come and reset it.

So far they have done the following:

Replaced 3 cam adjustment units
Reground the crank
Replaced the bearing on the reground crank
They said they would dismantle the oil pump and check it.

These are the things I know about.

I live in Bahrain so new/refurb engines are hard to come by. Not sure where I would get one unless it got shipped here from afar. That would drive the price up, I guess.

I want rid of the car as soon as I can. Problem is I'm a bit too honest to try and sell it without giving the whole story. That means the buyer will have lots of negotiating power.

I suppose I'll just have to wait until I get it back and then decide which direction to go.
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