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      04-05-2009, 09:46 AM   #89
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Honestly, NRing lap time comparisons to an E46 M3 are irrelevant. You're comparing a 550hp car to a 333 hp car on a track where power is a major factor.

It's like saying a 335i is a better sportscar than a honda S2000 because it's faster around the NRing. You're comparing cars seperated by 8 years in terms of technology, and 40%+ difference in HP.

I just cannot comprehend what would motivate anyone to buy one of these. It is an uglier 5 series wagon, with less room, that sits 6 feet off the ground, can't go offroad, will get 10 miles to the gallon, have an abysmal power/weight ratio for the engine offered, handle like absolute ass for the advertised level of performance, and cost $100,000.

Then again, I appreciate being able to humiliate the guys in the $100k 500hp Merc jeeps when they try to cut me off at lights out of the right/left turn only lane, as they always do. They always seem to give me the finger afterwards though. The fact that I have never run into an AMG SUV at a redlight that doesn't want to stoplight grand prix tells me something about the demographic these things appeal to, and it's not favorable.
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      04-05-2009, 10:48 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E82tt6 View Post
Honestly, NRing lap time comparisons to an E46 M3 are irrelevant. You're comparing a 550hp car to a 333 hp car on a track where power is a major factor.

It's like saying a 335i is a better sportscar than a honda S2000 because it's faster around the NRing. You're comparing cars seperated by 8 years in terms of technology, and 40%+ difference in HP.

I just cannot comprehend what would motivate anyone to buy one of these. It is an uglier 5 series wagon, with less room, that sits 6 feet off the ground, can't go offroad, will get 10 miles to the gallon, have an abysmal power/weight ratio for the engine offered, handle like absolute ass for the advertised level of performance, and cost $100,000.

Then again, I appreciate being able to humiliate the guys in the $100k 500hp Merc jeeps when they try to cut me off at lights out of the right/left turn only lane, as they always do. They always seem to give me the finger afterwards though. The fact that I have never run into an AMG SUV at a redlight that doesn't want to stoplight grand prix tells me something about the demographic these things appeal to, and it's not favorable.
+1. 555hp vs 333hp, 345 width tires vs 255 width tires, and AWD vs RWD on a power heavy course means lap times don't mean much.

Anyways, I like the cars, just not as ///M's...seems slapped together with some ///M badges and ///M glue. Needs to be more aggresive looking.
Even the aftermarket seems to have put more work into their X6s:

Last edited by vgame64; 04-06-2009 at 05:49 PM..
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      04-05-2009, 11:23 AM   #91
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+1. 555hp vs 333hp, 345 width tires vs 255 width tires, and AWD vs RWD on a power heavy course means lap times don't mean much.

Anyways, I like the cars, just not as ///M's...seems slapped together with some ///M badges and ///M glue. Even the aftermarket seems to have put more work into their X6s:
Wow! The body kit is a tad too strong (for my preference at least, and I think BMW's too), but that looks nice. The design elements in that really are better than the X6 M.
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      04-05-2009, 12:15 PM   #92
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But these are low volume cars that are only marketing exercises to buid core company values, not volume sales where the big bucks are!!! Do you now volswagen looses money everytime it sells a veyron? sure thats a stupid example as these companys are in it for the money and thats ok with me and understandable. if they share a few smal engines with peugeout for the mini and future iseta cars thats fine for the mass market but these low volume cars are there to build brand image and what kind of image do u build with huge suv with cheap plastics and small brakes?? I keep given audis example because they are doing what bmw did 20 years ago and where it got bmw today. They learned from bmw and learned there lessons well and are now on the course to surpassing bmw as the premium sport manufacture. Take the low volume r8... they sell what, 20000, 30000 a year tops and how much money would that make them compared to the 500000 A4?? but the r8 creates an image of sport and technology that slowly gets passed to the A4 even if its just in those led front lights...but thats how u build a core image and capture consumers. now bmw builds this instead of an r8 competitor and 5GT instead of A7, merc CLS - again low volume cars that dont make lots of cash but build image- and a this cheap last minute M value destroyer instead of an m3csl - audi by the way is fnishing its rs5 -!!!
How much money can they make from 1000 if that many a year XM, but how much damage can they make to M letter with turbo, heavy, last minute cheap engine modified cars.??? whats next, front wheel drive to save some mpg and lose the 50:50 to get more leg room??
damn!!! finally someone understands what im saying, you have some people in this board saying that BMW builds these cars to make money and stay afloat,,,, lmao, is all i can say, these cars are LOW VOLUME CARS, they dont mean shit for BMW just like the z4m didnt mean shit to them, but they give the image that the company is trying to portray. im pretty sure BMW put these cars out there to see how people would react to turbo m cars before slapping it in to the m5. they are test mules of what is to come, and they are a foreshadowing of BMW's demise as a true independent and un-compromised company.
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      04-05-2009, 02:12 PM   #93
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damn!!! finally someone understands what im saying, you have some people in this board saying that BMW builds these cars to make money and stay afloat,,,, lmao, is all i can say, these cars are LOW VOLUME CARS, they dont mean shit for BMW just like the z4m didnt mean shit to them, but they give the image that the company is trying to portray. im pretty sure BMW put these cars out there to see how people would react to turbo m cars before slapping it in to the m5. they are test mules of what is to come, and they are a foreshadowing of BMW's demise as a true independent and un-compromised company.
Nicely put! Do you think they might make this a limited production run and cut it off in a year or two?
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      04-05-2009, 03:05 PM   #94
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Why, BMW, why? I, for one, would rather have an M3 or M5 Touring.
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      04-05-2009, 03:26 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PM3 View Post
I just hope someone from bmw is listening to all this very carefull... im sure no matter what direction the company takes it will always have its fair share of the market, either due to its history or to new customers - like or not the X6 1st year production run was sold out - but it sure is a shame to ruin, let me refrase, change its image and brand values for something else. The way i feel is that audi is becoming the new bmw and bmw the new merc and merc beeing something in between both...something like that at the risk of beeing to general.

There is still a long way for audi - despite what they might try to pass along trough the media - to become the new bmw but the superbowl advert pretty much goes with what a said before. If u havent seen it check it and ull understand what i mean
i know exactly what you mean, audi really is becoming the new BMW.
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      04-05-2009, 03:34 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdardashti View Post
Nicely put! Do you think they might make this a limited production run and cut it off in a year or two?
I really don't know the answer to that, I think that they will continue to make it until the next generation x5 is due, but it sure is sad that they did this. By the way, I would'nt have cared so much if they made a proper M suv, but canceling the csl and z4m for this is just wrong, and then to top it off, they gave it an auto and minimally revised engine from the standard car!!! come on!!! .... but the most important question is "why the hell doesnt BMW come out with a super car that will carry the prestige of the brand for our and future generations? i don't know about you guys, but i get goosebumps every time i see a picture or video of a BMW 507, or a tastefully modded e46 m3, or when I see the BMW Film Series. Those are the things that make BMW what it is, not cars that replicate what has already been done. What most people fail to see is that BMW is still making nice and well engineered cars, there is no question about that, but they are NOT FAR AHEAD of the competition anymore, so as time goes by, they lose their advantage and superiority, and that's where they have gone wrong (without taking into consideration the horrific design and flame surfacing that is going into some of the new cars.)
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      04-05-2009, 04:11 PM   #97
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This is completely pointless. Take the regular 4.4 twin turbo from the X5 and X6 and tune it for 2k and you will have the same freaking power output since obviously the engine can take it.

The //M division is truly dieing a slow death. There is no point to this //M, especially since it has the same engine as the regular X6/X5 with just a different tune.

Retarded, absolutely retarded.

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      04-05-2009, 05:05 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWI6 View Post
I really don't know the answer to that, I think that they will continue to make it until the next generation x5 is due, but it sure is sad that they did this. By the way, I would'nt have cared so much if they made a proper M suv, but canceling the csl and z4m for this is just wrong, and then to top it off, they gave it an auto and minimally revised engine from the standard car!!! come on!!! .... but the most important question is "why the hell doesnt BMW come out with a super car that will carry the prestige of the brand for our and future generations? i don't know about you guys, but i get goosebumps every time i see a picture or video of a BMW 507, or a tastefully modded e46 m3, or when I see the BMW Film Series. Those are the things that make BMW what it is, not cars that replicate what has already been done. What most people fail to see is that BMW is still making nice and well engineered cars, there is no question about that, but they are NOT FAR AHEAD of the competition anymore, so as time goes by, they lose their advantage and superiority, and that's where they have gone wrong (without taking into consideration the horrific design and flame surfacing that is going into some of the new cars.)
Makes sense. It would have been okay if they built a new SUV (perhaps to compete with Porsche and the ML63, just for marketing and business) but the fact they didn't change as much of the car as they do with typical M cars is sad. One thing I don't know yet for 100% sure: is this sporting a 6-speed slush-box or the M DCT? If it's running the DCT, it would be at least decent. I understand why it's not using a 6 speed manual though; it wouldn't be able to support 680 nm of torque.
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      04-05-2009, 05:12 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdardashti View Post
Makes sense. It would have been okay if they built a new SUV (perhaps to compete with Porsche and the ML63, just for marketing and business) but the fact they didn't change as much of the car as they do with typical M cars is sad. One thing I don't know yet for 100% sure: is this sporting a 6-speed slush-box or the M DCT? If it's running the DCT, it would be at least decent. I understand why it's not using a 6 speed manual though; it wouldn't be able to support 680 nm of torque.
It's a slushbox; No 6MT or DCT option available.

They probably didn't go with the DCT because the DCT BMW has licensed to use can't handle all the torque.
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      04-05-2009, 05:14 PM   #100
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Cayenne Turbo has a competitor now. ML AMG was never strong and bold enough to competer with the Cayenne Turbo, but I think X6 will be a better competitor.
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      04-05-2009, 07:03 PM   #101
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oh and all i know is that i cant wait to buy one of these things in like 2 years with 18,000 miles for $35k... if you thought the seven series had a bad residual value, wait for this to age. for 35k i think i actually like this car.
x2, get one in 36 months off lease with less than 36k miles for cheap!
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      04-05-2009, 07:46 PM   #102
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I like em both......u guys should watch this video:



https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/press...ocNo=PF0002657
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      04-05-2009, 10:21 PM   #103
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its an ///M "car" on steroids and not a "truck"!
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      04-05-2009, 11:43 PM   #104
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Quote:
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It's a slushbox; No 6MT or DCT option available.

They probably didn't go with the DCT because the DCT BMW has licensed to use can't handle all the torque.

That, if completely true, can potentially become a problem in a couple of years when BMW makes the new M5 and M6. They already said they are going to put this (or a similar TT V8) engine into them. There's no way the car can have a manual tranny, and with what you say it won't get DCT either....

The E92 might be last M to have a manual. If BMW starts to put turbos in every M car, the amount of torque it will produce will be too much for a manual...
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      04-06-2009, 01:13 AM   #105
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Sick Rear! Hottest Sport Suv Out?
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      04-06-2009, 01:26 AM   #106
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Sick Rear! Hottest Sport Suv Out?
yeah def. can't wait to test drive one of these bad boys!!!!
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      04-06-2009, 01:08 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdardashti View Post
That, if completely true, can potentially become a problem in a couple of years when BMW makes the new M5 and M6. They already said they are going to put this (or a similar TT V8) engine into them. There's no way the car can have a manual tranny, and with what you say it won't get DCT either....

The E92 might be last M to have a manual. If BMW starts to put turbos in every M car, the amount of torque it will produce will be too much for a manual...
There are manuals that can handle gross torque, look at the ZR1, Enzo, CGT, etc.
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      04-06-2009, 02:33 PM   #108
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^ its a good thing you didn't include GTR in your example, lol.

Yeah, I'll always prefer a manual to an auto, even if the auto is technically faster. Maybe I wouldn't mind it as much in an m truck or a big m5/m6 though. Daily driving does get tiresome at times with a manual...
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      04-06-2009, 02:55 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdardashti View Post
That, if completely true, can potentially become a problem in a couple of years when BMW makes the new M5 and M6. They already said they are going to put this (or a similar TT V8) engine into them. There's no way the car can have a manual tranny, and with what you say it won't get DCT either....

The E92 might be last M to have a manual. If BMW starts to put turbos in every M car, the amount of torque it will produce will be too much for a manual...
I don't think that will be an issue. BMW will have to license a more powerful DCT. Afterall the GT-R and Veyron both use DCTs.

The one that BMW uses in the 335 can handle 370 lb-ft of torque according to Wikipedia: In January 2008 BMW introduced a double clutch transmission on their M3 model, manufactured by Getrag and dubbed M DCT (M Dual Clutch Transmission). The same transmission is to be used in the upcoming redesigned Z4 (the Sdrive35i version)[4].

For 2009 models, DCT is an option on the 335i. This is a $1600 option over the manual transmission. The transmission is said to be able to hold 500 N·m (370 ft·lbf) of torque.[5]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin-clutch_gearbox

Last edited by vgame64; 04-07-2009 at 09:28 AM..
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      04-06-2009, 06:58 PM   #110
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I don't think that will be an issue. BMW will have to license a more powerful DCT. Afterall the GT-R and Veyron both use DCTs.

The one that BMW uses from Getrag can handle 370 lb-ft of torque according to Wikipedia: In January 2008 BMW introduced a double clutch transmission on their M3 model, manufactured by Getrag and dubbed M DCT (M Dual Clutch Transmission). The same transmission is to be used in the upcoming redesigned Z4 (the Sdrive35i version)[4].

For 2009 models, DCT is an option on the 335i. This is a $1600 option over the manual transmission. The transmission is said to be able to hold 500 N·m (370 ft·lbf) of torque.[5]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin-clutch_gearbox
My main concern was regarding actual true manuals, but this is interesting. Do you think it's actually the same DCT from the M3 that will be used in the 335i and Z4 sDrive35i? I know the M3's name is M DCT, while the non M cars are just DCT, but perhaps that's just marketing? However, there is also a price difference between M DCT and DCT so maybe it's just tweaked differently...
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