Lifter failure on 2010 X5M

[eswimm]

Looking for some advice on a recurring lifter problem on this car.

Dec 2013: Replaced a collapsed lifter in Cyl 1.
Feb 2015: Replaced 3 collapsed lifters and a rocker in Cyl 1+2.
Now: 2 Failed lifters in Cyl 1+2, one of them is the lifter from Dec 2013.

Car was purchased from Carmax in Aug 2013 w/ a 72mos 125k mile Maxcare warranty (CNA Warranty).

Warranty covered the 1st two repairs, but refused to replace the head at BMWs recommendation on the 2nd repair. Now at the 3rd repair, CNA expects the dealer to cover all labor plus the repeat lifter under 2yr parts warranty (they'll graciously pay $28 for the 2nd lifter). Dealer refuses since they're saying the failures are a result of an unidentified problem in the head. Dealer is unable to demonstrate any actual failure with the head so CNA refuses to replace it or any other component.

Engine oil is changed every 6k miles and according to my SA the engine is pristine. No signs of varnish or sludge and no indications of what is actually causing the lifters to fail.

I've effectively backed CNA into corner and into covering this repair telling both them and the dealer that I will pay for the repeat lifter and the dealer can submit a warranty claim to CNA for the new lifter and labor.

Downside is that neither CNA nor the dealer are going to cover any future lifter failures in that head. Taking the head off adds $1000s of diagnostic work that will only be covered if they can find an actual problem that's causing the failures. CNA has already covered about $12,000 in repairs on a $2,700 warranty, so they're getting difficult.

I haven't been able to find anyone else with lifter failures on the S63, so there's nothing to indicate what's wrong. Anyone seen anything similar or have suggestions?

Unless I can identify a cause, I'm just going to sell the car back to Carmax while it sounds quiet and buy something else. The only satisfying part of that will be getting a pro-rated refund (based on coverage time) of the CNA warranty.

[WallyM5]

Never heard on any lifter issues yet on the S63. I will check around and see what I can find.

Post on other forums and see what you can find.

[PAX5]

I think the key is in this statement: ... "replace the head at BMWs recommendation ..."

Was that BMW as in the dealer, or BMW the manufacturer?

I would push hard on BMW the manufacturer to find out why they would've made such a recommendation. They have the know how and experience and understand their engines ...

The fact that CNA refused, puts the onus back on them ...

[eswimm]

It's the dealer guessing what the cause is. I asked them to reach out to BMWNA for guidance on the problem and was told the recommendation was to replace pretty much all the moving parts in the head, short of the cam shafts. If the issue recurred, they would credit that labor towards completely replacing the head, shafts and associated parts. I could authorize them to remove the head and look for problems, but I'm on the hook for anything over 2 hours of diagnostic unless they find a definitive problem. CNA refused to replace any parts that haven't failed. I have no reason to assume that if I paid for the parts that CNA would replace the head next time.

Dealer is saying that if I had a BMW extended warranty or the AutoGuard warranty they sell, that they would replace the parts.

I test drove a 2013 X5M today and I was shocked at the difference in cabin sounds. My 2010 in sport mode, all you hear is tapping and a power steering pump that sounds like it's going to explode. The 2013 all I heard was exhaust.

I hate to give up on the 2010, since it's fully optioned and has a Velos tune, nevermind the hit I'm taking to replace it with another X5M. I just don't have any confidence in the dealer being able to identify the problem. They don't have enough experience inside the engine to figure out what the real problem is, especially if it isn't one that's been seen before.

[PAX5]

Hate to suggest this, but what's the chance that the Velos tune is the cause ...

Have you had the tune since the first failure?

It would be indirect, but doesn't the tune change the fuel curve and timing? Valve train is now under stresses it was not originally designed for. Problem is no one will ever admit this ... especially Velos or Velos owners. Just saying ...

[eswimm]

Originally Posted by PAX5

Hate to suggest this, but what's the chance that the Velos tune is the cause ...

Have you had the tune since the first failure?

It would be indirect, but doesn't the tune change the fuel curve and timing? Valve train is now under stresses it was not originally designed for. Problem is no one will ever admit this ... especially Velos or Velos owners. Just saying ...

Velos tune was added in March 2015, after round 2 of lifters, so I doubt it's connected in any way. I'm sure it's putting extra strain on some systems, but I wouldn't connect it to my problem.

Driving the 2013 X5M though, it was obvious that it didn't have the oomph that my 2010 has with the tune.

[777man]

Originally Posted by PAX5

Hate to suggest this, but what's the chance that the Velos tune is the cause ...

Have you had the tune since the first failure?

It would be indirect, but doesn't the tune change the fuel curve and timing? Valve train is now under stresses it was not originally designed for. Problem is no one will ever admit this ... especially Velos or Velos owners. Just saying ...

I was thinking the same thing..........

[eswimm]

Originally Posted by 777man

I was thinking the same thing..........

Trust me, I wish the tune was the problem, then I'd at least have a solution.

Unfortunately, unless reversing the flow of time is one the side effects, it's pretty clearly not related to the tune.