BMW N63 Engine replaced components new problems

[mp3_in]

Hi, I'll try to keep it short as possible because we all know what this is this love/hate relationships,
N63b44A 408HRSPRS, 600nm+, 110K km (around 70K miles) true mileage
What was performed:

1. Cylinder lining with steel,
2. Heads chains replaced, oil valve seals too
3. REPLACED ALL fuel injectors to 12 rev
3. Replaced PVC valves (x2), replaced boost regulator actuators (x2)
4. spark plugs, coils continuously swapped
5. oil every 5K km / ~3.5K miles in summer, +1K km in winter
6. Replaced vanos selinoids number of times both intake and outlet
6. Did Intake manifold, did exhaust manifolds (exhaust change stuff in between and new manifolds) - ZERO air leaks

So to sum: IT does NOT oil leak, air leak exhaust leak or antifreeze leak, is kinda "new" except pistons and rode, it has cylinder pressures, it does not burn oil.
When I noticed downgrade: after new turbos install & removed catalyst & exhaust leak was removed

Buying only new original parts


Recently I also replaced two turbos with installation of cutless downpipe (with proper removal of lambda probes after catalysts by computer on ECU level)

I Expected to have at least 30K miles without problem (basically drive it until it dies)
What I received in return:

1. Constant misfyres especially on moderate driving,
2. Car only goes fine when floor up to 3.5K revvs, then it starts misfiring, you cannot try "driving mode" without engine misfiring, it can be one cylinder very often #2, it can be ALL CYLINDERS
3. And final: Two turbines creating different pressure (recently noticed it, bank 2 turbine created ~4-10 less PSI after replacement) tried to regulate wastegate manually, it a little bit better but now it can have absolutely RANDOM pressure created by both turbines and Im constantly having lambda probe before catalyst on bank #2, couple examples attached (fuel pumps LPFP/HPFP was excluded and never errored on them)
I could not attach logs for some reason, I will attach screenshot of logs, if someone could contact me somewhere in social media it be great to have full log (Moment current value is NM of torque that being produced at that moment)











We have very bad situation with mechanics: some are only doing engine parts replacements, some doing only diagnostics and you cannot really get them working together, we don't have any decent shop.
I got bimmerlink logs, if someone could review them it be great or share similar exp, shall I replace every line from and to turbines to new ones? I just spent soooooo much money on it so I cannot really afford guesses now

I need some hints at least, what shall I monitor better so I can arrive to motor mechanic and just tell him what to replace or test.

PS. Im in live with that car, I had it tuned for slight upgrade +100nm of torque and 450hrpsrs verified on dyno, it made a difference and it was serving me whole 1 year without single issue so I have high hopes in achieving it again
It also has the best saloon with comfort seats, hi-fi professional and ventilated seats so I cannot really upgrade from it, drives like a CHARM when healthy, utility is 101 percent

I AM AN HONEST PERSON AND I CAN provide reward (if provide explanation what part is indeed causing error and if you was right) or remote diagnostics.

Attaching an X

[mp3_in]

I've added new values to monitor such as angle of throttle (body) valve, I noticed there are always different values between heads, but also different incoming temperature from intercoolers, can throttle valve open more if ECU sees there are less temperature of air mass to compensate?
Or throttle valves strictly controlled by me as a driver input?

UPD: already been told that throttle valve is controlled by ECU as well to compensate

UPD: added new values for lambda before cat (no lambdas aftercat cause catless)

I don't know what this graph means but Im confident both lambdas working fine and what I see bank 2 throttle body valve has more angle but engine receives the same amount of air from intake manifold so we can pretty much exclude throttle valve,
What I can tho near constant misfires even on idle, when pressing accelerator hard, especially from stand sometimes car goes ideally up to 3d gear.

[Bilbofraggins]

I see you are in Ukraine…if I had this much trouble getting to the bottom of this… I’d reluctantly pay for BMW to hopefully find out whats up.

I hope you sort it… what year is it?
…

[mp3_in]

Originally Posted by Bilbofraggins

I see you are in Ukraine…if I had this much trouble getting to the bottom of this… I’d reluctantly pay for BMW to hopefully find out whats up.

I hope you sort it… what year is it?
…

Yes I am,
Yes sir, Im thinking of it, one thing that warms me that I got all heavy weight stuff in, lol, audi shop which is 5 times cheaper in here, what Im afraid of, is that they gonna say something like "I've altered system by removing catalytic converter and I need to buy for 5K new ones" and this won't solve the issue, I know somethibg like this gonna happen) I got one electronic guy but he had some personal circumstances, Im waiting for him, return date unknown ;(
anyway just by cutting catalysts car sound became top notch, juicy beast, if not for sound I would be dumping it already I swear

So X6 with me 4 years and is 2009, first saw road in 2013 (most likely people did not like it, bmw always ahead designs etc)
105K kms (80K miles), I did not overwhelmingly invested in it, taking an account that it was sold for $130K back in 2013, is madness)) those cars should be selling new or never bought except you find car like mine with 80% stuff replaced only in engine bay, and then you will have a decent mechanic, otherwise you are ***.

[TTV8M]

Few questions.

Did you record the new fuel injector codes and have them typed in properly to the DME?

can you go back to the stock flash and see if it still knocks or misfires?

[TTV8M]

I have factory cats I would consider sellknf, but my car is a 2010 bmw x6m, 4.4 V8 , so it probably won't work for you

Can you get a. USB to OBD2 cable, install ISTA on a laptop and interface with your truck? This should give you a better understanding as to what modules may be having issues

[mp3_in]

Originally Posted by TTV8M

I have factory cats I would consider sellknf, but my car is a 2010 bmw x6m, 4.4 V8 , so it probably won't work for you

Can you get a. USB to OBD2 cable, install ISTA on a laptop and interface with your truck? This should give you a better understanding as to what modules may be having issues

hey, thank you for response,
For some reason I could not make ISTA read my x6 altho I was able to read number of other bmws with it...Strange stuff,

Today I consulted by one knowing man and he telling me that is about how ECU is programmed so I now will go to official dealer and refill my car ECU with origional factory program and we go from there. (even tho non existent lambdas after cat. will be erroring we start from there).

[Bilbofraggins]

Mp3….

I read experiences like yours…and count myself lucky… only needing routine engine maint and recalls to this point… don’t track and never tuned…I did have headlights replaced.

BMW won the extended warranty game…. I don’t believe anything was needed in the extra 2years… Mine was a Nov 12 build…2013 model. First reg in Feb 13… under two years old when I bought it.

125000km….trouble free km’s - hopefully the hammer is not waiting to drop.

I have been thinking about moving on…to what I don’t know….but I’d rather blow this beast-up than give it away.

Timing overhaul is being done this week on my sons 2015 x3 N20, no symptoms… just preventative maint…we have have had it since new… wish I’d known more about such issues prolific with many models.

BMW Canada have treated customers badly here on this as there is clearly a widespread problem. The extra timing/oil pump sprocket two years warranty extension 120,000 km worthless. Should be no time limit if a problem manifests.

After many years… another BMW is probably not happening….

[TTV8M]

it could be the cable you are using. i have a universal cable that has a left and right toggle switch on the OBD2 connector. i had to have my laptop at the ISTA screen, USB plugged in, and then plug into the OBD2 for it to read. yes I too had issues trying to get it to connect, its in the configuration.

if you buy a K+D can cable, say for example from

https://www.bimmergeeks.net/product-...dition-k-dcan1

they usually give you instructions on how to configure your laptops COM port so that it goes to COM1 and everything matches up for ISTA to work.

[TTV8M]

be sure to have your oil pump chain measured every other oil change. no more than 10 mm of play, which is 5mm on each side. my original motor blew because of this. it actually shattered the oil pump sprocket. after it died, when i dropped the oil pan, the sprocket was only half on the oil pump, other half laying in the pan.

[mp3_in]

Originally Posted by TTV8M

be sure to have your oil pump chain measured every other oil change. no more than 10 mm of play, which is 5mm on each side. my original motor blew because of this. it actually shattered the oil pump sprocket. after it died, when i dropped the oil pan, the sprocket was only half on the oil pump, other half laying in the pan.

Oh my, I heard that only superior thing v8 has is great oil pump so that engine is NEVER starving...I suppose first revision was the best, I don't have oil warnings, never

[mp3_in]

Originally Posted by Bilbofraggins

Mp3….

I read experiences like yours…and count myself lucky… only needing routine engine maint and recalls to this point… don’t track and never tuned…I did have headlights replaced.

BMW won the extended warranty game…. I don’t believe anything was needed in the extra 2years… Mine was a Nov 12 build…2013 model. First reg in Feb 13… under two years old when I bought it.

125000km….trouble free km’s - hopefully the hammer is not waiting to drop.

I have been thinking about moving on…to what I don’t know….but I’d rather blow this beast-up than give it away.

Timing overhaul is being done this week on my sons 2015 x3 N20, no symptoms… just preventative maint…we have have had it since new… wish I’d known more about such issues prolific with many models.

BMW Canada have treated customers badly here on this as there is clearly a widespread problem. The extra timing/oil pump sprocket two years warranty extension 120,000 km worthless. Should be no time limit if a problem manifests.

After many years… another BMW is probably not happening….

Actually X5 - X6 are VERY reliable as almost any I6 bmw,, especially E7x,
is about N63 V8 engine which is great but piece of shit reliability wise (don't know about other revisions)

[mp3_in]

Tomorrow I go for an ECU flush from official,
Today I was reviewing another log and I see mega thing, when throttle is fully closed (on log file it will have offset in 4-5 strings)

Setpoint value for throttle valve 1 (I suppose decided live by ECU based on current demands) is 0
However, for throttle #2 is not 0 hence throttle body actual angle differentiating for both,
I just can't think of any ECU or just mechanical issue to cause this!! Why the hell ECU would think to set more angle when 0 on acceleration pedal

[mp3_in]

Hey!

They could not reprogram factory ECU because FRM (lights) block appeared to be not from that car or something so I have to order it and try again, omg,

Guys, anyone knows stock boost for N63b44A (first rev engine)?
I saw somewhere it 0.8 bars (11.6PSI)
Mine is at 1.0 bar (14PSI) setpoint and up to 1.2-1.4 bar (18.8PSI) , who knows stock values for turbos?

[TTV8M]

Originally Posted by mp3_in

Hey!

They could not reprogram factory ECU because FRM (lights) block appeared to be not from that car or something so I have to order it and try again, omg,

Guys, anyone knows stock boost for N63b44A (first rev engine)?
I saw somewhere it 0.8 bars (11.6PSI)
Mine is at 1.0 bar (14PSI) setpoint and up to 1.2-1.4 bar (18.8PSI) , who knows stock values for turbos?

Man that is bad you have to go all thru that crazy stuff. I think it is 0.8 bar

Sounds like that car had a different tune put in from what it should have

[mp3_in]

Originally Posted by TTV8M

Man that is bad you have to go all thru that crazy stuff. I think it is 0.8 bar

Sounds like that car had a different tune put in from what it should have

Thank you for info and support!) at this point I just want car that would not misfire just that goes predictably.

Anyway before I do this ECU flush I put new throttle body and auxilary water pump (just got message that it degrading),
I was in traffic yesterday and noticed car misfyres ONLY when throttle body start to opening by itself, I don't think is ECU job to correct it, I think it would rather correct injected furl than air mass,

So to sum:
When I got +- synchronised throttle bodies like those values:
2,36 TPS throttle valve head #1
2,39 TPS throttle valve head #2
In this case car is smooth as butter,

When it starting to change (gradually, ~10 values per second) even with no gas pedal applied while staying sit and starting to differentiate for 20-30 points it starts runningrough,

When its
2,50 for #1
3,36 for #2
Engine goes wild and I can get misfyre for all 8 cilynders or random ones, as soon as I exercise some job with the gas pedal it goes +- normal ride again,
I think that mechanical/electrical motor in throttle body just giving away because this engine is a monster air sucker, it always try to suck it and that throttle valve cannot resist it anymore 😀 and as soon as I change it everything will be fine, if not, going to dealer for ECU and this failed module fortunately they quoted $600 for everything, keep you updating guys

[Bilbofraggins]

Commendable effort and knowledge. Good Luck.

[TTV8M]

did you consider getting another ECU/DME ?

[mp3_in]

Originally Posted by TTV8M

did you consider getting another ECU/DME ?

Oh, very good point!
Assuming it goes from the same engine it won't need remaping or something, so it can be a lot cheaper and faster than ordering FRM block before coding stock (and they said it can be fried during reading or coding, imagine, ordering new block to fry it)

So after replacing throttle body and aux water pump which Im doing next week (if fixes I will leave it for another 10-20K as is to appreciate extra 50% boost and then sell as is, if not, I will find DME and just swap that old block))
Thanks, mr Smith)

[mp3_in]

Hey!

Replaced Aux pump, throttle body,
It certainly better for cooling my turbos, however, did not fix most annoying experience) which is:
:
If you give it good pedal kick it will drive okay-ish and after you stopped in traffic on neutral (brakes) engine is as smooth as silk, after 1 minutes sitting still or not pressing gas pedal enough Im getting tremendous shaking car and error on misfiring, before it starts shaking throttle valve head #2 opening by itself and the more it do that the more car is shaking, difference between throttle #1 & 2 in angle is around 33%,
What I noticed as well is that difference in temperature between two throttle valves of incoming air, #1 will get something like 18 degrees, #2 will get around 35-42 degrees celcious, what that value should be after going from intercooler - only God knows 😆

next steps: Im done with guess&replace For Now) and will get to the new guy who is soing only bmws,

If does not help Im gonna go to tuners (500km drive &#128514 so they can create right setup accordingly to car (no catalytic converters)

My current suspects are
- intercooler
- Head chain
- mechanical Vanos

[TTV8M]

agent smith

[mp3_in]

Okay I find out when there is cold weather, 5-8 degrees ambient car would run almost flawlessly with great sound accompaniment, good news, is no camshaft/chain issue, hurray!

I probly buy new intercooler, however, price is totally unreasonable like 1K for dumb box with radiator, anyway, then I go to specialised shop with dyno so they can tune it as needed, I want to squizee some hrsprs from those 4.4 litres, stock is not an option, is very underpowered from factory given it has twin turbo setup on such a displacement.