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      06-07-2016, 11:13 PM   #23
m5james
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That's fine and your choice. I'm not selling meth kits and would prefer to stay away from one if possible but it's not possible on the S63 if you want to go beyond a tune and downpipes.

You simply won't make good power on 91 California gas. The blend is not knock resist at all and acts like 89 found else where in the country. It's focused on smog reduction first. You can't break 500rwhp on it in these motors let alone reach the systems fuel volume limits which are much higher if you have the octane to support the boost.

I add E85 to my tank making a E30 blend and you can see the difference right away as timing climbs up without the knock 91 produces even on a stock tune.
I'm looking into either the Snow Performance 210 kit or Aquamist HFS-4 kit and going on the cheap by using washer fluid/Heet until tuning comes out for us. At this point it's only going to be used for carbon cleaning and maybe a little extra power for whatever amount the computer may adjust to the added octane.
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      06-07-2016, 11:15 PM   #24
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I'm sure he was just doing the covering his ass thing, which is the smart move since he has nothing to gain from you running it and you'd have to mix it which most people don't want to mess with.

We can't run straight E85 only because our software can't support it and nobody is going to invest the time in changing that.

Hardware wise there is nothing preventing the use of E85. There's a lot of myths and lack of knowledge about it. This is my 3rd BMW I've used it in (335i and M4) and 5th vehicle. You just need to know what you're doing. It's worth a lot of power but isn't just pump and go.

If it's readily available put 5 gallons in the next time you fill up and you can tell the difference due the more advanced timing unless you're running 93. The difference isn't that large then but there are still gains. I'm still data logging and working with the tune to find out how much E85 I can run and how much power it's worth, but know that E30 is a safe mix that makes power in our trucks.
I'm running an Android tablet and the Torque app to monitor things like boost levels, AFR (commanded and actual), etc and I wonder how accurate they are. What are you using to data log since we can't use things like the JB4 and do you have any updates to your own logs, mixtures, etc?
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      06-07-2016, 11:19 PM   #25
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Russian components, American components ALL MADE IN TIWAN !!!

sorry had to throw in that line from armageddon.


I have found precision engineered German cars don't really like unregulated Chinese or Taiwanese parts where the word precision is used loosely at best.

Though their getting much better than they used to be i still hear stories of parts grenading in motors causing tons of issues.
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      06-07-2016, 11:26 PM   #26
m5james
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We've all heard stories...I want specifics.
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      06-08-2016, 07:51 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m5james
We've all heard stories...I want specifics.
Well not sure if it's still up but on the z4 forum years ago they posted a video of one of their kits I believe blowing up, again could be other things related.
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      06-09-2016, 11:53 AM   #28
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What exactly is the goal here if a tune, DPs, and exhaust will get you near 700hp? I was under the impression the transmission isn't good for much more than that...
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      06-10-2016, 12:44 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m5james
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myaddiction View Post
I'm sure he was just doing the covering his ass thing, which is the smart move since he has nothing to gain from you running it and you'd have to mix it which most people don't want to mess with.

We can't run straight E85 only because our software can't support it and nobody is going to invest the time in changing that.

Hardware wise there is nothing preventing the use of E85. There's a lot of myths and lack of knowledge about it. This is my 3rd BMW I've used it in (335i and M4) and 5th vehicle. You just need to know what you're doing. It's worth a lot of power but isn't just pump and go.

If it's readily available put 5 gallons in the next time you fill up and you can tell the difference due the more advanced timing unless you're running 93. The difference isn't that large then but there are still gains. I'm still data logging and working with the tune to find out how much E85 I can run and how much power it's worth, but know that E30 is a safe mix that makes power in our trucks.
I'm running an Android tablet and the Torque app to monitor things like boost levels, AFR (commanded and actual), etc and I wonder how accurate they are. What are you using to data log since we can't use things like the JB4 and do you have any updates to your own logs, mixtures, etc?
BMWlogger is the only software I've found that can log from our ECU (MSD 8.5). It does not correctly log boost though. After talking to BMWlogger they say the factory release notes say our ECU and the ECU (MSD 8.0)for the N63 motors have the same signals. Apparently most are the same but boost is not one of them. The AWRON dash gauge is the only one I could find that can actually provide the correct boost. It's made in Germany and has some close contacts with BMW so I guess that is why they can seem to get it right. All the phone apps and Bavarian Tech software and cable have the same boost problem since they all rely on the same incorrect software notes from the factory.
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      06-10-2016, 12:59 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by m5james
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myaddiction View Post
I'm running PURE TURBO stage 1 upgrades and didn't have any issues running on the stock tune. Working with BPM motor sports to get a tune for the upgraded turbos.

The limit on our engines is the the MAP sensor only reads to 22-23psi. Most tunes run 20 psi on the stock turbo because it runs out of breath on the topend. Looks like that will be the first limit we'll run into with upgraded turbos. Which will be a problem because nobody wants to support rescaling the pressure map for the 4 bar map sensor newer BMWs use. I asked. Fuel will probably be next after that.
How are you liking your Pure Turbos, what kind of differences did you feel going from stock to upgraded turbos even though you're on a stock tune?

After seeing this thread - http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1267910, I was talking with lfelunden and he said it's not needed on our platform because he claims he can boost beyond the limit of the stock sensors (which I'm guessing is ours since he mentioned it) on the MEVD ECU only.
Useless for us unless there is a work around for the MAP limits or if you are willing to roll the dice you can run higher boost then the MAP limit of 22.5 psi and allow the O2 and knock sensors feed back to keep it check.

Our turbos have a smaller turbine then the S63tu so by putting an even larger compressor you just create more lag with the same limits due to the small turbine. At really high pressure ratios the larger compressor might help but you run into the MAP issues.

Not sure how PP performance is getting around it but you cannot get a straight answer out of them or their distributors. For the price of their package I'd just get a F85/86 M since it is the S63tu motor and has a ton of support. A F85/86 M with the full JB4 will crush ours even with turbo upgrades.

After a tune and pipes on the E70/71 M you go down the rabbit whole really fast. Not to mention there are people that have had the transmission eat it's self on stock power levels.

Not saying it's impossible. Just you need to decide how much you want to sink into it for what you are going to get. That's a call each owner will have to make.
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      06-16-2016, 09:22 PM   #31
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My tuner said himself that he works around the limits of the stock MAP sensor, so he said for me/us to swap the sensors are useless. At this point I'm taking that information as is.

Seeing some of the cars I've raced, the S63 definitely runs out of breath at the top end, which I'm guessing isn't an issue on the S63TU.

PP Performance has taken a page right of the $$Dinan$$ books and simply taken stock BMW parts, marked them up grossly and then claimed them as their own - http://www.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=638340

I've got a custom intake, downpipes, stage 2 tune and I'm doing my custom exhaust soon as well. I'm doing meth research as we speak...if anything it's just for it carbon cleaning abilities at this point since my tuner doesn't like and/or wanna tune for meth. I've yet to hear a single story of transmissions failing on these vehicles. Drivelines/draveshafts for us and the M5, all day long, but I'd love to read a thread about failed transmissions for the sake of knowing.

Agreed...short of an S63TU swap, I don't know we'll ever reach the S63TU's power levels since they're got different heads, injectors, cams, block, rotating assembly, etc etc as I've verified it on www.realoem.com to kill the curiosity of how similar or dissimilar our S63 is to the S63TU. Other than architecture, we share very little...we don't have MAF's, can't run JB4, etc. We're officially the bastard children before mommy got it right lol.
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      06-17-2016, 08:27 AM   #32
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I have a question, how come the S63Tu unit in the F10/12 M5/6 has to run boost at 1.5 bar (~21.8 PSI) compared to the S63 units in the E70 X5/6 M at 1.2 bar (17.4 PSI) to generate pretty much the same power, 560hp vs. 555hp and exact same torque @501 lb-ft....I know the power and torque curves are slightly different but that's a lot more boost for basically no increase in power.

Maximum Boost Pressure (absolute)
1.5 bar to 1.2 bar
Output 560hp to 555hp
@ 5,750 – 7,000 to rpm 6,000 rpm
Torque 501 lb-ft to 501 lb-ft
@ 1,500 – 5,750 rpm to 1,500 – 5,650 rpm

I understand that the Tu is far superior but this strikes me as strange...unless "absolute" means that the motor has the potential to generate that much boost but never actually does.
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      06-17-2016, 09:33 PM   #33
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I personally thing the S63Tu is underrated. I think BMW did it to say "look how much faster we are with the same HP as our competition"
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      06-18-2016, 11:36 AM   #34
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The S63TU is very underrated and quite often gets the same horsepower to the wheels that we get at the crank. The S63 and S63TU are not nearly as similar as people may think. Do a search on www.realoem.com, very few parts are cross compatible between the X5M's S63 and M5's S63TU...at best we share a similar engine architecture and an ///M badge on the trunk.

Last edited by m5james; 06-23-2016 at 12:29 AM.
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      06-19-2016, 06:05 PM   #35
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what about a Toluene mixture? seems to be better than e85. not able to buy at the pump...so its kinda a pain. but the end result is awesome.

im thinking the meth/washer fluid is a great addition for maintaining power. heat soak is terrible in these things, the intercooler system using the coolant seems simple for a factory system. It would be much better with a second separate independent system. im in Arizona and 120 degree days kinda stink.

this truck reminds me of the 99-02 audi s4. there was very limited support, chips/downpipes.... with nothing but back yard home depot engineering there were plenty of us who had the thing from 250hp to over 400....

I am in agreement on one sad issue...the TU is far superior and much more responsive to anything and everything...
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      06-20-2016, 05:13 PM   #36
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B5 S4's have TONS of support. Look at APR or swapping to RS4 parts. I had a b7 S4 and B7 RS4, you want to talk about no support!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 01blacks4 View Post
what about a Toluene mixture? seems to be better than e85. not able to buy at the pump...so its kinda a pain. but the end result is awesome.

im thinking the meth/washer fluid is a great addition for maintaining power. heat soak is terrible in these things, the intercooler system using the coolant seems simple for a factory system. It would be much better with a second separate independent system. im in Arizona and 120 degree days kinda stink.

this truck reminds me of the 99-02 audi s4. there was very limited support, chips/downpipes.... with nothing but back yard home depot engineering there were plenty of us who had the thing from 250hp to over 400....

I am in agreement on one sad issue...the TU is far superior and much more responsive to anything and everything...
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      06-22-2016, 12:07 AM   #37
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they have support now.... but in 2001, they had none...chip and downpipes... its was lots of late nights on the phone with piggy (mike)

APR was in an 1/2 empty shopping center shopping center, and was as impressive as a bad stereo shop.... I lived about 75 miles away from them...

yes, now EVERYONE makes something for an audi...

yes, the B7 doesn't have much yet ...

my wife's car is a v10 s6...same motor (90%)as my lambo which makes swapping/testing parts easy

I have been really looking at getting an rs7....how did you like yours? did you get ride of it?




Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy1323 View Post
B5 S4's have TONS of support. Look at APR or swapping to RS4 parts. I had a b7 S4 and B7 RS4, you want to talk about no support!!
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      06-22-2016, 09:50 AM   #38
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I had a B7 (2007-2008) RS4, not an RS7. I am thinking I might give the X5M to my wife though and get an RS7. I believe that Audi changed the ECU in the RS7 and made it much more difficult to flash. The earlier RS7's can be tuned to crazy amount of power.

I always thought that the V10 from the S6's was a totally different engine. I thought it was 2 5 cylinder engines next to each other. The reason being that the Lambo V-10 was too wide to fit in between the shock towers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 01blacks4 View Post
they have support now.... but in 2001, they had none...chip and downpipes... its was lots of late nights on the phone with piggy (mike)

APR was in an 1/2 empty shopping center shopping center, and was as impressive as a bad stereo shop.... I lived about 75 miles away from them...

yes, now EVERYONE makes something for an audi...

yes, the B7 doesn't have much yet ...

my wife's car is a v10 s6...same motor (90%)as my lambo which makes swapping/testing parts easy

I have been really looking at getting an rs7....how did you like yours? did you get ride of it?
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      06-22-2016, 02:46 PM   #39
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nope...same different intake, but the block, layout etc are all the same. its made buying parts for the lambo EASY...

AC went, 2700 for a ac compressor. traced it back to an audi part number and then to a VW part number....$300 bucks from local vw dealer, same part.

same with a fuel pump when it went. makes it really easy having oil filters and suck on hand also

the rs7 is such an awesome car.... I have no need for it, which is really me fighting the desire....
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      06-22-2016, 02:51 PM   #40
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Great story, guys...something that could be taken to PM though, yeah?
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      06-22-2016, 03:03 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by m5james View Post
How are you liking your Pure Turbos, what kind of differences did you feel going from stock to upgraded turbos even though you're on a stock tune?
^What he said
I believe M5James and are are both on stage 2+ with downpipes...
Is there a benefit to swapping our OEM turbos to Pure Turbos?

We need more information on them.
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      06-22-2016, 05:16 PM   #42
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I was under the impression that we can't get much more power out of our cars after tune and Downpipes because the fuel system becomes the limiting factor and no one makes upgraded components.

Has anyone tried the exhaust manifold from the S63Tu?
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      06-22-2016, 08:23 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gixxerboy63 View Post
^What he said
I believe M5James and are are both on stage 2+ with downpipes...
Is there a benefit to swapping our OEM turbos to Pure Turbos?

We need more information on them.
The way I see is upgrade to Pure Turbos, or upgrade to M5 headers and turbos , then upgrade the Pure Turbos. I've spoken to Pure and they said their Stage 1 turbo upgrade is the same regardless of it's the S63 or the S63TU, but our headers and most importantly the mounting flange for the turbo is different between the two engines, so it's gotta be a pre-planned setup so Pure can make sure the turbo has the correct header-to-turbo mounting flange.

http://www.xbimmers.com/forums/showt...ht=header+swap
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      06-22-2016, 08:24 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy1323 View Post
I was under the impression that we can't get much more power out of our cars after tune and Downpipes because the fuel system becomes the limiting factor and no one makes upgraded components.

Has anyone tried the exhaust manifold from the S63Tu?
Granted our block isn't nearly as similar as most may have thought compared to the S63TU, but catless downpipes and tune aren't the limit. PP Performance took a page from Dinan's playbook and swapped parts from other cars onto other engines, claimed it as their own while grossly overcharging. Yes, we can install M5 turbos and headers for get roughly another 100hp or so, pushing us into the 750hp range.

http://www.xbimmers.com/forums/showt...ht=DINAN+PAGES
http://www.xbimmers.com/forums/showt...ht=header+swap

As best as I know, there's a handful of S63TU engines that have been blown from pushing high HP (likely tuning issues), but I don't know of any S63 from being pushed to a breaking point yet. This is by no means concrete, but this is my guess of which order mods will/have been done by most:

1) Carbon filter delete and/or drop in filters
2) Stage 1 tune
3) Stage 2 tune
4) Catless downpipes (tune needed to turn off CEL light)
5) Muffler (be it deletion, purchasing something manufactured or custom)
6) Pure Stage 1 turbos (bolts to stock S63 headers)
7) M5 headers and turbos (mind you M5 guys are swapping to Pure Stage 1 (pushing past 1000hp) and now Stage 2 is in testing)

I only know of 2 custom intakes for the X5M, Solo and myself:

http://www.xbimmers.com/forums/showt...=intake+feeler

Since we can't use the Burger Motorsports JB4 or BCM to control meth, wastegate control, etc. it seems meth is a step that is still unexplored territory as far as I know as well...I'm looking into it for it's cleaning abilities first and foremost, then whatever added octane may be gained for safety reasons, but once again I haven't seen anyone running meth on the S63 yet.

http://www.xbimmers.com/forums/showt...php?p=20141649

Poing being...only a handful of S63's are running M5 headers/turbos and/or Pure Stage 1 turbos, so it seems the limits haven't been found because the S63 hasn't been pushed as much as the S63TU. The million dollar question is if anyones bought these wheels.
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Last edited by m5james; 06-22-2016 at 08:52 PM.
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