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      11-12-2017, 07:21 PM   #1
esevx5
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Oil change frequency with 1q oil top up?

It looks like most top up the X5 with 1q of oil every 2-4 miles, so can we technically extend the frequency of oil changes?


Here is what I mean:



Although on the surface, after 12k miles, an oil change is definitely due.

However, with 4q total top up at every 3k interval, the weighted average oil age is around 8.2k miles.

Just a thought
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      11-12-2017, 07:51 PM   #2
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If you're adding 4qts in 12k miles, you have an issue. You're either burning oil or leaking oil.
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      11-12-2017, 10:55 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esevx5 View Post
It looks like most top up the X5 with 1q of oil every 2-4 miles, so can we technically extend the frequency of oil changes?


Here is what I mean:



Although on the surface, after 12k miles, an oil change is definitely due.

However, with 4q total top up at every 3k interval, the weighted average oil age is around 8.2k miles.

Just a thought
What engine do you have? (Assuming a V8). I have an N52 and have never had to add oil between oil changes.
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      11-13-2017, 10:29 AM   #4
esevx5
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I have the N52. Got it in the summer so haven't had it for too long

After an oil change, got a notification 3900 miles later to add 1q of oil.

I figured this is normal?
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      11-13-2017, 11:34 AM   #5
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I'm no expert on motor oil, but personally I would not be comfortable with your weighted average method as in theory some of your oil is old enough that it needs to be replaced (as well as your oil filter) according to what the factory calls for.

Not a place I would cut corners given the nominal cost of an oil change versus the potential issues caused by not following the factory spec.
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      11-13-2017, 11:38 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335dsleeper View Post
If you're adding 4qts in 12k miles, you have an issue. You're either burning oil or leaking oil.
In my experience having to add a quart every 3k miles or so on a European car is not unusual as a car gets older.

The OP did not mention how old the X5 is, but I assume if he is posting here it's at least 4 years old.
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      11-13-2017, 12:01 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shark715 View Post
I'm no expert on motor oil, but personally I would not be comfortable with your weighted average method as in theory some of your oil is old enough that it needs to be replaced (as well as your oil filter) according to what the factory calls for.

Not a place I would cut corners given the nominal cost of an oil change versus the potential issues caused by not following the factory spec.
Fair enough, I was actually thinking about that as well. I figured maybe that's why BMW's recommended interval is so large

Mine is a 2008
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      11-13-2017, 02:12 PM   #8
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For the life of the oil, I would suggest pulling samples before you add oil or do a change, and get them tested to see what condition your oil is in.

The other aspect of that, is that even though you are adding oil, you are not exporting any contaminants, or changing your filter, until you do the oil change. Personally, I would be at least changing the filter more frequently, even if the oil is still in good shape.
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      11-13-2017, 08:35 PM   #9
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Well, I do not share your experience and I’ve owned plenty of euro cars, to include multiple oil consuming M cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shark715 View Post
In my experience having to add a quart every 3k miles or so on a European car is not unusual as a car gets older.

The OP did not mention how old the X5 is, but I assume if he is posting here it's at least 4 years old.
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      11-14-2017, 04:24 AM   #10
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Change oil every 8k. Top off 2 times. Normal
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      11-14-2017, 10:16 AM   #11
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Op you need to ensure your engine is working as designed. The PCV/CCV system on the N52 can be problematic. Ensure yours is working correctly as you will have an increase in oil consumption if not.

The cyclone separator can clog or drain slower resulting in an increased oil consumption rate. Also, the slightest vacuum leak can reduce the cyclone separators effectiveness, meaning, any engine gasket, intake gasket, hose, oring that isn’t sealing 100% “can” reduce the cyclone separators effectiveness and again, can cause an increase in oil consumption.

2qts in 8k is a lot, 4qts in 12k is excessive and neither are normal.

For comparison, my e70 X5 at 199k miles used 1.5qts in 13,692 miles on the oil. In fact, not one of my bmw’s have ever consumed more than 1qt in 5-6k miles, even when tracked, supercharged or turbocharged. I’ve owned 9 BMW’s over the last decade and not one, including 2 x M cars and 3 x M engines consumed more than 1qt ever 5-6k miles.

If your CCV system, engine sealing and proper weight oil is used, you shouldn’t be consuming more than 1qt every 5-6k.

Last edited by 335dsleeper; 11-14-2017 at 10:28 AM.
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      11-14-2017, 11:09 AM   #12
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you can say all this till your blue in the face, BMW's specification is a quart every 750 miles is acceptable.

I would not fix a thing, and envy that you only have to add 1 quart ever 4,000 ish miles. Search me and see what my N63 eats on a regular basis.

Why not just do an even 10k change and call it good?
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      11-14-2017, 11:11 AM   #13
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p.s. I do think that servicing a PCV system is a great idea though. That isn't really fixing anything, its more like preventative maintenance.
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      11-14-2017, 11:17 AM   #14
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old or ineffective Bmw cyclone separator is 100% linked to high oil consumption.

Please post a Bmw document that says 1qt every 750 miles is acceptable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyBimX5din View Post
p.s. I do think that servicing a PCV system is a great idea though. That isn't really fixing anything, its more like preventative maintenance.
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      11-14-2017, 12:22 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335dsleeper View Post
old or ineffective Bmw cyclone separator is 100% linked to high oil consumption.

Please post a Bmw document that says 1qt every 750 miles is acceptable.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=874786

https://blog.bavauto.com/16943/bmw-h...-si-b11-03-13/


please see "SI B11 03 13" for your own personal reference. That specifies our oil usages, set at 1 liter per 750 miles for all "M" motors, and n63 motors.
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      11-14-2017, 12:33 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335dsleeper View Post
Well, I do not share your experience and I’ve owned plenty of euro cars, to include multiple oil consuming M cars.
Good to hear. However:

Technical Service SI B11 03 13 (Oil Consumption)
This Service Information bulletin replaces SI B11 05 84 dated March 1985.

MODEL: All

Information
All engines normally consume a certain amount of engine oil. This is necessary in order to properly lubricate the cylinder walls, pistons, piston rings, valves and turbocharger(s), if equipped. In addition, engines with less than 6,000 miles will generally consume additional engine oil because the internal engine components are not fully seated (break-in). Therefore, engine oil consumption complaints received prior to 6,000 miles cannot be considered.

Once a new or re-manufactured engine has accumulated 6,000 miles, oil consumption can be considered if there is a drastic change in the engine oil consumption rate (e.g., the engine oil consumption rate triples) under similar driving conditions.

Engines equipped with a turbocharger(s) will consume more engine oil than normally aspirated engines (non-turbocharged). The additional oil that is consumed in a turbocharged engine is mainly due to the turbocharger lubrication requirements. Some of the engine oil normally migrates past the turbocharger turbine bearing seals and will enter the intake tract of the engine.

All turbocharged engines also require a complex crankcase ventilation system. The crankcase ventilation system needs to maintain a small vacuum on the crankcase and not allow the crankcase to be pressurized. Pressurizing the engine crankcase can lead to external engine oil leaks and increased engine oil consumption via the piston rings and valve seals. When the load and the boost level of a turbocharged engine is varied, the path of the crankcase pressure is changed. During the crankcase ventilation path transition, a small amount of engine oil will pass through the crankcase ventilation system and is additionally consumed. The additional engine oil consumption of a turbocharged engine, as compared to a normally aspirated engine, is normal and not a defect.

Oil Consumption specification:
- All BMW engines (excluding Motorsport) can consume up to 1 quart of engine oil per 750 miles at any time.
- Due to the increased engine power, all Motorsport engines can consume up to 2.5 quarts of engine oil per 1,000 miles at any time.

Diagnostic hints:
When an oil consumption complaint is received, it may be possible to correct it without performing extensive engine repairs. Check the following frequent causes of excessive oil consumption prior to undertaking any engine consumption analysis or repairs. Submit a PuMA case for assistance.

Proper Maintenance:
Has the vehicle received proper maintenance? Certain external conditions (mainly city driving style and/or high engine loads; poor fuel quality; and extreme ambient temperatures), combined with excessively long oil service intervals, may accelerate engine oil degradation, which may cause premature wear of the engine components. Continuous city driving (stop-and-go traffic); fuels with high olefin content; sulfur and certain aromatic fractions; and very high ambient temperatures are the most influential factors causing premature oil aging and consecutive engine mechanical deterioration.

External Leakage:
The engine should be leak-free before starting any engine oil consumption analysis.

Overfilling:
If the oil level is too high, oil in the crankcase will be thrown against the cylinder walls and consumed. Check the dipstick markings or electronic measurement (as equipped) to be sure of accuracy. The oil level must not be higher than the upper mark.

Engine Oil Viscosity/Quality:
The use of oil with the wrong viscosity rating for operating conditions can cause high oil consumption. Check the Owner’s Manual to determine the proper viscosity for prevailing conditions.

Engine Speed and Load:
If vehicle operating conditions are severe, oil consumption will be higher than normal. Extreme load or continuous high engine speed will result in increased oil consumption.

Crankcase Ventilation:
The crankcase ventilation systems use various different crankcase ventilation valves, depending on the engine type. Although the valves all look different, they function similarly, using a spring and diaphragm assembly to control the crankcase pressure. A properly functioning pressure control valve is designed to maintain a slight vacuum (under-pressure) in the crankcase, which assures reliable crankcase venting during all engine operating conditions. One of the results of a malfunctioning crankcase ventilation system can be increased engine oil consumption. Refer to SI B11 03 08 for measuring specifications and procedures.

Turbocharged Engines:
Engines that are fitted with a turbocharger(s) will consume more engine oil than naturally aspirated engines (non-turbocharged engines). In this case, a turbocharged engine could require topping of engine oil more frequently. For vehicles with N63 and N63T engines, refer to SI B11 01 13 for additional details.
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      11-14-2017, 12:43 PM   #17
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BMWs are oil burners, this isn't news. 335dsleeper's experience is an outlier, not the norm.

Also, just because you don't get an iDrive "low oil" warning doesn't mean you have the optimum amount of oil in your motor. The system warns you when you need to add a quart (although, often times I found I needed more than a quart). Think of it as your brain - if you feel thirst, you're already dehydrated. So be proactive and check the oil level regularly. Even if the digital system isn't as reliable or accurate as an old fashioned dipstick.

Last edited by mirob; 11-14-2017 at 12:54 PM.
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      11-14-2017, 01:01 PM   #18
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Thanks for posting.

Bmw also says lifetime fluids in the tranny and diff’s.

I guess I’ve been lucky. I made 600-700-800whp out of Bmw M engines and NEVER witnessed anything like this. 1-2qts in 1k.

I guess since BMW has a service bulletin, it’s acceptable.




Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyBimX5din View Post
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=874786

https://blog.bavauto.com/16943/bmw-h...-si-b11-03-13/


please see "SI B11 03 13" for your own personal reference. That specifies our oil usages, set at 1 liter per 750 miles for all "M" motors, and n63 motors.
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      11-14-2017, 07:44 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shark715 View Post
Good to hear. However:

Technical Service SI B11 03 13 (Oil Consumption)
This Service Information bulletin replaces SI B11 05 84 dated March 1985.

MODEL: All

Information
All engines normally consume a certain amount of engine oil. This is necessary in order to properly lubricate the cylinder walls, pistons, piston rings, valves and turbocharger(s), if equipped. In addition, engines with less than 6,000 miles will generally consume additional engine oil because the internal engine components are not fully seated (break-in). Therefore, engine oil consumption complaints received prior to 6,000 miles cannot be considered.

Once a new or re-manufactured engine has accumulated 6,000 miles, oil consumption can be considered if there is a drastic change in the engine oil consumption rate (e.g., the engine oil consumption rate triples) under similar driving conditions.

Engines equipped with a turbocharger(s) will consume more engine oil than normally aspirated engines (non-turbocharged). The additional oil that is consumed in a turbocharged engine is mainly due to the turbocharger lubrication requirements. Some of the engine oil normally migrates past the turbocharger turbine bearing seals and will enter the intake tract of the engine.

All turbocharged engines also require a complex crankcase ventilation system. The crankcase ventilation system needs to maintain a small vacuum on the crankcase and not allow the crankcase to be pressurized. Pressurizing the engine crankcase can lead to external engine oil leaks and increased engine oil consumption via the piston rings and valve seals. When the load and the boost level of a turbocharged engine is varied, the path of the crankcase pressure is changed. During the crankcase ventilation path transition, a small amount of engine oil will pass through the crankcase ventilation system and is additionally consumed. The additional engine oil consumption of a turbocharged engine, as compared to a normally aspirated engine, is normal and not a defect.

Oil Consumption specification:
- All BMW engines (excluding Motorsport) can consume up to 1 quart of engine oil per 750 miles at any time.
- Due to the increased engine power, all Motorsport engines can consume up to 2.5 quarts of engine oil per 1,000 miles at any time.

Diagnostic hints:
When an oil consumption complaint is received, it may be possible to correct it without performing extensive engine repairs. Check the following frequent causes of excessive oil consumption prior to undertaking any engine consumption analysis or repairs. Submit a PuMA case for assistance.

Proper Maintenance:
Has the vehicle received proper maintenance? Certain external conditions (mainly city driving style and/or high engine loads; poor fuel quality; and extreme ambient temperatures), combined with excessively long oil service intervals, may accelerate engine oil degradation, which may cause premature wear of the engine components. Continuous city driving (stop-and-go traffic); fuels with high olefin content; sulfur and certain aromatic fractions; and very high ambient temperatures are the most influential factors causing premature oil aging and consecutive engine mechanical deterioration.

External Leakage:
The engine should be leak-free before starting any engine oil consumption analysis.

Overfilling:
If the oil level is too high, oil in the crankcase will be thrown against the cylinder walls and consumed. Check the dipstick markings or electronic measurement (as equipped) to be sure of accuracy. The oil level must not be higher than the upper mark.

Engine Oil Viscosity/Quality:
The use of oil with the wrong viscosity rating for operating conditions can cause high oil consumption. Check the Owner’s Manual to determine the proper viscosity for prevailing conditions.

Engine Speed and Load:
If vehicle operating conditions are severe, oil consumption will be higher than normal. Extreme load or continuous high engine speed will result in increased oil consumption.

Crankcase Ventilation:
The crankcase ventilation systems use various different crankcase ventilation valves, depending on the engine type. Although the valves all look different, they function similarly, using a spring and diaphragm assembly to control the crankcase pressure. A properly functioning pressure control valve is designed to maintain a slight vacuum (under-pressure) in the crankcase, which assures reliable crankcase venting during all engine operating conditions. One of the results of a malfunctioning crankcase ventilation system can be increased engine oil consumption. Refer to SI B11 03 08 for measuring specifications and procedures.

Turbocharged Engines:
Engines that are fitted with a turbocharger(s) will consume more engine oil than naturally aspirated engines (non-turbocharged engines). In this case, a turbocharged engine could require topping of engine oil more frequently. For vehicles with N63 and N63T engines, refer to SI B11 01 13 for additional details.
I knew you would find a way to claim what I am saying was wrong. Well, look at the date on the bulletin you are referencing, then look at the date on the other one, it supersedes the one you are referencing. I know this doesn't play well with the idea you know everything, and everything you know is right, but you are wrong. BMW's standards in regards to our trucks is a liter every 750 miles is OK. That is a fact. Go to your BMW dealer and ask them. There is no way you can dispute this.

I do not agree with these standards, but its what they have for us, the consumer of the product. That amount of oil burning is NOT acceptable, but you go off the deep end for a quart every 4k, your crazy. You make this abundantly clear by referencing a bulletin from 1985. Just as you saying you prefer your X5 for towing vs a terrible towing Ford Excursion.

Can I have some of what you are on?
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      11-14-2017, 08:01 PM   #20
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I see you’re directing a negative comment comment towards me which I find amusing but, I didn’t reference any bulletin in my post. I actually said “thanks for posting.”

You “knew it”. Lol except I didnt post a SIb. Try to follow along. Also cute you’re taking my excursion post out of context. Lol

Last edited by 335dsleeper; 11-14-2017 at 08:11 PM.
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      11-14-2017, 08:16 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335dsleeper View Post
I see you’re directing a negative comment comment towards me which I find amusing but, I didn’t reference any bulletin in my post. I actually said “thanks for posting.”

You “knew it”. Lol except I didnt post a SIb. Try to follow along. Also cute you’re taking my excursion post out of context. Lol

So, feel free to suck it, tough guy. Feel free to PM if you want to continue.
Why would I PM you? I get tired of you imposing your standards on other peoples stuff. Your telling the op he should have concern, and the fact is HE SHOULDN'T. It's great you do things your way, but your way, and standards are not going to work for the majority of folks here.

I did not take the Excursion comment out of context, you told me all the reasons why Excursions are not a good choice for towing, and how its all over the internet, and that again, isn't the case. You don't know my background, but I know my way around trucks and towing, and you are entitled to your opinion, but I and many other folks would disagree. Opinions can't be wrong though, so you go ahead and do you, just don't throw your opinions around here like they are fact.
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